Landlady trying not to give back full deposit.

AppleTartFace

Hi all,

Without giving you the full story, I'll keep it short. Our lease was up Saturday 16th, we left on that date. We were expecting full deposit back seeing as everything was in order, all bills paid and no damage (as we had replaced/repaired anything damaged). However the landlady wants to keep €240 out of our deposit, because she wanted to get builders in on the Friday 15th and it inconvenienced her to have to get them later on in the week.

WHAT?

There's no talking to her, she wouldn't even meet us personally, she got her brother to, and even though the estate agent was understanding to our situation, he didn't do much.

Oh yeah, the landlady hasn't replied to any of our texts/phonecalls in the last week; wouldn't even pick up the phone when the estate agent rang her.

Any ideas as to what we can do? I'd understand if there was a legitimate reason for taking money from the deposit, but this is ridiculous.

djmcr

PRTB

Victor

I wonder is that amount equal to a week's rent.

You might rephrase this, but a letter like this would be useful. You might check the facts and rephrase slightly.

Dear Landlord,

We would like all of our security deposit back please. Security deposits are there to cover any unpaid rent and any damage. Rent has been paid and there is no damage and you have made no complaint against us.

Your stated reason of us not leaving before our lease was up isn't a legitimate reason for withholding our deposit. In fact the reason appear to be that the property will be vacant while you are waiting for your own building contractor to do works unrelated to out time in the property.

Failure to receive this money promptly will result in a complaint to the PRTB, which may cost you significantly more than the amount you are withholding.

Yours

AppleTartFace

AppleTartFace

Can I still complain even if my landlord isn't registered with the PRTB? We're a bit anxious about making complaints and if it goes further, incase it ends up costing us money But thanks for the letter! No, it's not even a week's rent, I don't know where she got that figure from at all!

odds_on

AppleTartFace wrote: »

Can I still complain even if my landlord isn't registered with the PRTB? We're a bit anxious about making complaints and if it goes further, incase it ends up costing us money But thanks for the letter! No, it's not even a week's rent, I don't know where she got that figure from at all!

A tenant can always make a claim with the PRTB but a landlord who has not registered the tenancy is unable to make a claim or counter-claim until the tenancy is registered. The PRTB seem to accept late registration of a tenancy at any time.

The only cost to you would be the cost of the claim - currently 25 euros, I believe (but stand to be corrected).

In your claim you should also claim damages for inconvenience, stress etc and of course the PRTB claim fee.

mattjack

You could also contact Threshold and they may advocate on your behalf.Regarding PRTB, as another poster said, is 25 euros ...
Also communicate by writing regarding everything , ask the Landlady for a letter explaining her position.

ABajaninCork

When you left the property, did you take pictures? Just in case the landlady tries to say you damaged the property in lieu, so's to speak.

As with the poster above, I'd communicate in writing only at this point. Send the letters registered post, and try to get from her in writing the reasons why she wants to keep E240. I'd also try to get to tell you how she arrived at that figure? If she wanted to get the builders in, why didn't she wait until after you'd moved out??

Oh - and if she's not registered with the PRTB, then she'd be in for a lot more than the E240 she wants from you! As I understand it, she's liable for a big fine for non-registration! You may like to point that out to her...

mattjack

I do a little work with a charity , now and again advocating for tenants, her reason for keeping the deposit won't hold up.There are criteria for withholding a deposit and her reason isn,t one.
Try get everything in writing.
As far as I know the Letting Agent should be registered too , so he may come alongside you if he realises you are taking it further.

AppleTartFace

Well I'm assuming she's not registered with PRTB, seeing as it wasn't mentioned in our contract, and yep I took photos, I always try to be as legit as possible and cover all grounds when dealing with estate agents and landlords. At the moment, the account the deposit should be put in is with Ulster Bank (their systems are all down at the minute!) So I'll just have to wait until Monday to see what money we get, if any But I will try all of your suggestions, the PRTB and threshold, thanks very much everyone!

I'll report back in due course!

djimi

If she is not registered with the PRTB then you get the added bonus of potentially seeing her handed a fine for a couple of grand for not registering a tenancy! Might be worth mentioning that to her and see if it changes her tune.

iguana

AppleTartFace wrote: »

Can I still complain even if my landlord isn't registered with the PRTB? We're a bit anxious about making complaints and if it goes further, incase it ends up costing us money But thanks for the letter! No, it's not even a week's rent, I don't know where she got that figure from at all!

If she isn't registered with the PRTB you have her over a barrel. It's illegal not to register and she could be liable for a fine of €4,000 or 6 months in prison for not complying. I'd call her and make sure she knows just how high the consequences of you alerting the PRTB to the tenancy could be for her.

AppleTartFace

:O I checked on the PRTB website to see which tenancies were registered, our previous address definitely isn't on it.

ABajaninCork

I understand the PRTB are very slow at registering tenancies. So it MAY be that the landlady did register your tenancy. But given the way she's behaved, I rather doubt it...;)

I'd still tell her you're going that way and asking for costs/damages as per Odds On's post. Might put a stop to her gallop anyway!

odds_on

Just two PRTB dispute adjudications:

DR338/2009
Respondent Landlord shall pay the total sum of € 2,425 to the Applicant Tenant, within 7 days of the date of issue of this Order, € 1,200 being the entire security deposit unjustifiably retained, damages of € 1,200 for retaining the deposit and € 25 in respect of re-imbursement of the Applicants PRTB application fee

DR1070/2008
The Respondent Landlord shall pay the total sum of €818.32 to the Applicant Tenant, within 30 days of the date of issue of this Order, being the security deposit of €780, €13.32 in respect of bank charges incurred, and €25 application fee for PRTB dispute resolution service, in respect of the tenancy at ........

AppleTartFace

odds_on wrote: »

Just two PRTB dispute adjudications:

Jaysus!

mattjack

AppleTartFace wrote: »

Jaysus!

Indeed

The_Conductor

AppleTartFace- 100% definitely do lodge a PRTB case- and if you haven't already done so- register with Revenue to claim a tax relief on the rent you paid (its not a massive relief, its only worth about Euro230 per annum, but its yours and you're entitled to it).

Its high time that people learnt they can't just run roughshod over the law of the land, and other people's rights.........

sunnysoutheast

AppleTartFace wrote: »

Jaysus!

Agree with all the above, I'd suggest you send the letter registered to her with a copy to the agent. Good draft letter suggested but I'd give her a specific date - say seven days - to respond with the money.

If it was me talking to her I'd also be dropping subtle hints wondering aloud whether all of the rental income has been declared to the Revenue.

Let us know how you get on.

SSE

Lorna123

Just two samples, there would be lots more !

Cuddlesworth

My dad is a landlord and has won 1 PRTB case and lost 1 PRTB case. He was in the right both times but learnt his lesson from the first one. Apparently the majority of cases go in favour of the tenant and I'm not surprised. The landlord needs a wealth of evidence in order to win, the tenant basically needs nothing besides the lease, the deposit amount and the amount recovered.

jimmycrackcorm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

My dad is a landlord and has won 1 PRTB case and lost 1 PRTB case. He was in the right both times but learnt his lesson from the first one. Apparently the majority of cases go in favour of the tenant and I'm not surprised. The landlord needs a wealth of evidence in order to win, the tenant basically needs nothing besides the lease, the deposit amount and the amount recovered.

He obviously wasn't right the second time!

not even wrong

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

My dad is a landlord and has won 1 PRTB case and lost 1 PRTB case. He was in the right both times but learnt his lesson from the first one. Apparently the majority of cases go in favour of the tenant and I'm not surprised. The landlord needs a wealth of evidence in order to win, the tenant basically needs nothing besides the lease, the deposit amount and the amount recovered.

So what you're complaining about is the landlord actually needs some sort of evidence before he can hold on to the tenant's deposit?

The deposit is the tenant's property, not the landlord's. If the landlord wants to take away the tenant's property then the burden of proof is rightfully on the landlord.

the_syco

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

He obviously wasn't right the second time!

Off topic, but it sounds like he found out that he needed to bring more info the 1st time around, and thus won it the 2nd time around.

Cuddlesworth

the_syco wrote: »

Off topic, but it sounds like he found out that he needed to bring more info the 1st time around, and thus won it the 2nd time around.

Its not really off topic and your right. The landlord has to provide a wealth of evidence including detailed costings and receipts to win a PRTB case. If they can't come up with a perfect case it goes in favour of the tenant.

From his post this landlord is chancing her arm and she will lose.

odds_on

Lorna123 wrote: »

Just two samples, there would be lots more !

How many more would you like? There are lots more, if you care to check the PRTB Dispute resolutions yourself - I just gave two examples.

odds_on

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

My dad is a landlord and has won 1 PRTB case and lost 1 PRTB case. He was in the right both times but learnt his lesson from the first one. Apparently the majority of cases go in favour of the tenant and I'm not surprised. The landlord needs a wealth of evidence in order to win, the tenant basically needs nothing besides the lease, the deposit amount and the amount recovered.

Landlords are meant to be professionals - whether they rent one property or multiple properties.

Professionals are meant to know the law and how to keep complete records relating to their rented properties. Failure to keep these records will entail losing any claim against them. They should always be able to provide complete and detailed evidence from the start.
Unfortunately, there are many amateur (usually unwilling) landlords who have to rent out their properties and think that renting is an easy thing to do.

Tenants are usually ignorant of the complete law regarding renting and as a result the adjudicator will often give a tenant the benefit of the doubt. However, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Graces7

odds_on wrote: »

Landlords are meant to be professionals - whether they rent one property or multiple properties.

Professionals are meant to know the law and how to keep complete records relating to their rented properties. Failure to keep these records will entail losing any claim against them. They should always be able to provide complete and detailed evidence from the start.
Unfortunately, there are many amateur (usually unwilling) landlords who have to rent out their properties and think that renting is an easy thing to do.

Tenants are usually ignorant of the complete law regarding renting and as a result the adjudicator will often give a tenant the benefit of the doubt. However, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

:):rolleyes:

retroactive

odds_on wrote: »

Tenants are usually ignorant of the complete law regarding renting and as a result the adjudicator will often give a tenant the benefit of the doubt. However, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

It isn't so much 'ignorantia juris non excusat' as it is accounting for the unequal bargaining positions and the positions generally of the parties.

The PRTB are well versed in these situations and yes, the usual outcome is in favor of the tenant but this is never unfounded.

Eitherway, draft a warning letter giving her reasonable notice and follow it up with an email.

Keep records of both of these communications.

For leverage, point out, in your letter, that she should registered with PRTB and the penalties for not being registered. Furthermore, note that her non-registration doesn't not bar you from using the binding arbitration facility provided by the PRTB.

Should you have any doubts contact a solicitor.