Charges Over Ennis Primary School Incident Struck Out

BRAIN FEEDs

http://clare.fm/news/charges-over-ennis-primary-school-incident-struck-out

Any comments people?

The Guards and the dpp need a good kick up the hole,even sacking after this!

i was in Ennis circuit court today and also saw another case,3 lads were aquited when a jury of 12 men and women found the lads not guilty on two serious charges.
whats this got to do with the headline? If you saw the witness the state put in the box,with his record the jury more than likely said the man lied to the cops and in court.
you may read about this next week.

Clareman

This isn't an ongoing case so I'm fine with it to remain open. I will remind everyone however that racist comments or generalization of a whole community will result in bans.

BRAIN FEEDs

Clareman wrote: »

This isn't an ongoing case so I'm fine with it to remain open. I will remind everyone however that racist comments or generalization of a whole community will result in bans.

any views on the DPP clareman?

Clareman

I thought it was a bit strange for such a high profile case with so many witnesses, many of whom would have been scared to testify, to have only been given 3 months to get everything together.

CptSternn

If my child ever encounters such behaviour, we aren't going to have to wait for the courts to let them off, like they always do, as I will personally sort it myself.

Looks like once again it's up to the people to defend themselves, as the courts are sure not doing anything to protect us.

Johnboy1951

A totally disgusting turn of events!

Heads need to roll .... and in a very public manner!

Silvics

Typical DPP behaviour. The school could take a private prosecution though I think?

dr.fuzzenstein

Must be great working for the DPP.
Make any decision you like, no matter how bizarre and wrong and you are covered by that wonderful phrase "We don't comment on individual cases", then off to the pub.
Where do I apply? I can fcuk up cases, snooze over paperwork, miss deadlines, make crazy decision via Ouija Board and then say "No comment" with a smile on my face and a spring in my step. Just don't go near my wages or pension.
It is the sort of lack of accountability Louis the XIV could only dream of.

MyKeyG

So can someone explain to me if there's a period of time in which the DPP must act? Because I'm not sure I get what exactly happened here.

CptSternn

The case was called multiple times in front of a judge and each time the DPP had failed to list any charges or do anything at all really. The judge finally dismissed it since the DPP was basically ignoring the case for whatever reason. Since the DPP said nothing the case was thrown out.

They didn't want to 'get involved' for whatever reason, so they just did nothing with it until a judge dismissed it totally for lack of interest on the part of the DPP (which represents the state).

CptSternn

There is no specified time period in which they have to act, it's more up to the discretion of the judge. If the state looks to be dragging its feet OR in this case they look to be intentionally ignoring the case so it will go away the judge can dismiss the charges based on those merits.

MyKeyG

You know what's tragic? My father works in that school and if he had picked up a Hurley or something else to defend the kids and 'assaulted' the perpetrators you can be sure to f**k the DPP would have a charge sent down for him.

Hawk Wing 2

MyKeyG wrote: »

You know what's tragic? My father works in that school and if he had picked up a Hurley or something else to defend the kids and 'assaulted' the perpetrators you can be sure to f**k the DPP would have a charge sent down for him.

totally agree, the legal system in this country is a disgrace

dr.fuzzenstein

CptSternn wrote: »

The case was called multiple times in front of a judge and each time the DPP had failed to list any charges or do anything at all really. The judge finally dismissed it since the DPP was basically ignoring the case for whatever reason. Since the DPP said nothing the case was thrown out.

They didn't want to 'get involved' for whatever reason, so they just did nothing with it until a judge dismissed it totally for lack of interest on the part of the DPP (which represents the state).

And if the DPP is called upon to explain themselves they will simply trot out their "we don't comment on individual cases, now if you excuse me it's lunchtime, off to the pub with me" before skipping off to have a pint.
Who do these people think they are? Soccer referees? Teachers?
The last time we had complete constitutional unaccountability like this, a lot of kids got raped.
No one should be immune from professional scrutiny, someone should be tied to a table, have their trousers pulled down under a bank of lights and have their arse examined by a huge microscope. And if no answers are forthcoming, disciplinary action, dismissal and prison.
What will happen? Nothing. And nothing will ever happen.
Unless maybe at some time in the future the victims of DPP inaction, inefficiency and indifference will have to force an explanation through the courts.

tipptom

The judge should demand that a rep for the DPP appear before him and explain the incompetence that forced him to make this decision,but as always the DPP have some law to hide behind to get out of having to be put on the spot and so the cycle can be allowed to continue,I mean to not even turn up and plead for a bit more time is shocking and sends over a message to these savages no matter what creed culture or nationality they are that they can continue this s**t and bring it in to a classroom is beyond belief.

Claregirl

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10653:feuding-traveller-factions-causing-mayhem&catid=74:general&Itemid=60

Maybe I'm a cynic but I reckon the decision not to prosecute could be more to do with "mediation":rolleyes:

Silvics

Claregirl wrote: »

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10653:feuding-traveller-factions-causing-mayhem&catid=74:general&Itemid=60

Maybe I'm a cynic but I reckon the decision not to prosecute could be more to do with "mediation":rolleyes:

Law enforcement requires a bit of trust and relationship-building between Travellers and the gardaí and I suspect in County Clare that the relationship between the Travellers and the gardaí is at an all-time low, as it is elsewhere in the country. It is not unique in that way and that has to be addressed,” Mr Collins told The Clare Champion.

What sort of weasel word claptrap is this?
From what I see and hear, the Travellers are untouchable. If they want to claim the benefits of Irish citizenship I want them subject to the same scrutiny of the law to which the rest of us must submit.
The reality is the gardai have neither the resources nor the backup to deal with them. Time for a specially equipped armed force to face them down.

christmas2012

''A case against three people charged over an incident outside a Ennis Primary School where a slash hook was allegedly produced, has been struck out.''

Absolutely shocking,why did they let them off?I think its crazy,we are too lenient on people who are a danger to society,assaults,and murder/''manslaughter'',is not taken seriously enough if one can get out on a suspended sentence which we see in many cases..Alan shatter is planning an early release programme for prisoners to free up overcrowding..:eek:

Back to that incident though it shouldnt have happened.

MyKeyG

Martin Collins, co-director of Pavee Point, who addressed the JPC committee said, “The truth is this is Traveller-on-Traveller violence, it impacts on Travellers, Traveller men, Traveller women, young Travellers, all Travellers and I get very tired and sick of this view that it should only become a concern for members of the settled community when it impacts on them - it should be a concern for everybody full stop

This guy is unreal. It should only become a concern FOR INNOCENT F***ING BYSTANDERS. Members of a particular community whether they be travellers, protestants, catholics, Polish or any other community should not in my view be given sympathy for the actions they commit on themselves. Yes it does affect the children of the perpetrators but then maybe Mammy and Daddy should stop trying to reef each other with bloody slash hooks.

CptSternn

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10653:feuding-traveller-factions-causing-mayhem&catid=74:general&Itemid=60

“At the same time people need to be looking at other ways to resolve their differences and their disagreements other than in the courts or through violence, or aggression. I’m not comfortable of this notion of a pay off, this idea that I will come to the table only if charges are dropped.

“I’m not suggesting that mediation is going to work in all situations but it is an effective tool and it has worked. It doesn’t always work, but just because it failed at a particular moment in time should not mean we don’t try it again. I think in the context of traveller feuding just because it hasn’t worked it should not mean we give up on it,” he said.

Mr Collins did suggest mediators to the JPC members but it was indicated that funding could be a problem.

Councillor O’Shea said the possibility of mediation Is something that would have to be taken up at town council level. “It will be looked into but it is highly unlikely that funding will be available,” he said.

So basically the families involved refused mediation (which they have already gotten at least three times previous, as reported by the same newpaper multiple times) unless all criminal charges are first dropped. The Pavee Point rep says he 'doesnt like the idea' but 'it is effective'.

Also, if ye remember last time they brought in a mediator who actually was part of the Good Friday Agreement mediation team, which cost the council (readin: us the people who live here) six figures. Fat lot of good that did as the same families are again at it sure.

Then the Pavee Point rep goes on to say he will need MORE funding from the council to avoid any future incidents, which is basically saying in a round about way that without money given to the families in one form or another whether it be via mediation or something else there will be more violence in town.

Why not just start handing out twenty year sentences? Or better yet, these are groups of three or more people operating together as a criminal gang - use the new organised crime legislation to jail them for life. Then again you know how they got them to sit down for mediation the first time after they threw the grenade in the terraced house a few months ago? They threatened to bring in CAB and look at their assets. That calmed them right down. Instead of threatening them, bring in CAB, seize everything they own, just like they do with any other criminals out there, and force them to provide documentation to get it back.

The time for letting them off has long past. They are running through schools, multiple times now, terrifying children and our government has let them. If the local government refuses to implement solutions that work, and now after the most recent incident which is just another in a long line but almost identical to one about a year ago it shows not only their 'mediation' approach is a complete an utter failure, but also that a new direction is needed. How about they get prosecuted like any other criminals who engage in criminal acts in our country?

dr.fuzzenstein

There should be a new approach to feuds (and I mean feuds between any particular group, we have to be fair here)
All the parties can meet in a large sport venue, where weapons will be provided. Anything except guns, but knifes, bats, slash-hooks, anything you want.
Everyone will sign a waiver declaring that they are fully aware that thunder dome rules apply, except it can be more than two that go in.
Tickets will then be sold to the general public, which will be protected behind bullet proof glass with a strong security presence.
Should any participant decide to attack the audience, he will be brought down by.
This should also be broadcast on TV and the internet as pay-per-view, with DVD available for sale later.
Scumbags kicking the sh*t out of each other because they are too primitive to settle their disputes in a rational and civilised manner, like the rest of us who probably had the benefit of several hundred thousand years more of evolution?
I'd buy that for a dollar!
They want to behave like animals? Great, we'll help and we'll make money out of them while they're at it.
Do your community a service and get your skull bashed in live on TV!
Or draft them into the army and send them on suicide missions.

CptSternn

Both ideas are not doable.

First, people who engage in such behaviour are not trainable and would not follow orders. Hell, they can't help themselves from acting out in public, there is no chance you can send them on any mission of importance.

Second, we should not be supporting their barbaric tenancies. As a civilised society we need to isolate them and hold their actions up for public scrutiny, not feed their primal urges. We as a society need to drag them up to our level, one way or another, and not let them drag us down into the mud with them sure.

dr.fuzzenstein

CptSternn wrote: »

Both ideas are not doable.

First, people who engage in such behaviour are not trainable and would not follow orders. Hell, they can't help themselves from acting out in public, there is no chance you can send them on any mission of importance.

Second, we should not be supporting their barbaric tenancies. As a civilised society we need to isolate them and hold their actions up for public scrutiny, not feed their primal urges. We as a society need to drag them up to our level, one way or another, and not let them drag us down into the mud with them sure.

Damn, was so looking forward to this. The T-shirt sales alone would make a killing.
But you're right, these people are out of order and something needs to be done, but at this stage it's just laughable.
What would happen to me if I ran riot in a school with a slash-hook?
I'd be sent down faster than you could say minority group.
Yes, there needs to be mediation, people who want help should get all the help that can be provided.
But on the other hand, it should be clear that if you step out of line, you will be hauled in and banged up.
Right now we are sending the signal that we are tolerating bad behavior, that it is OK and we don't mind.
And if someone says otherwise, just threaten them and they'll go away.
It's almost like the state is afraid to act.
That means the state is weak and vulnerable to attack and could easily be toppled by a sufficient number of criminals who decided that they want to run the show from now on.
It fills me with dread to think that I live in a country with a weak and pathetic government that is afraid to act against anti-social elements.
A weak government and administration should be thrown out and replaced by something that is capable of action.

maiden

I was woken up the other night at 1am, along with most of my neighbours to the sound of breaking glass that went on for ages, then we heard revving and revving of a truck!!!

SMASH!!! The truck was driven into the front of the house, front wall destroyed. Wife and 3 kids inside house, talking about having to demolish house and adjoining houses have to be checked for structural damage. The landlord is in bits!

The whole thing is so upsetting, all of us were really shaken up about it esp the neighbours that actually witnessed it! Serious charges should be brought here, but we wont be holding our breath

dr.fuzzenstein

maiden wrote: »

I was woken up the other night at 1am, along with most of my neighbours to the sound of breaking glass that went on for ages, then we heard revving and revving of a truck!!!

SMASH!!! The truck was driven into the front of the house, front wall destroyed. Wife and 3 kids inside house, talking about having to demolish house and adjoining houses have to be checked for structural damage. The landlord is in bits!

The whole thing is so upsetting, all of us were really shaken up about it esp the neighbours that actually witnessed it! Serious charges should be brought here, but we wont be holding our breath

And if the Gards where called they would have taken great care to arrive in a rush and a flurry of blue lights after the whole incident.
Or one Gard would have arrived on foot (again, only if safe to do so)
In Germany if a group of people gets out of control a large number of very large cops will arrive in black uniform, backed up by a lot of vehicles and they will have riot shields, tear gas, tazers, water canons (for larger disturbances) and, as a last resort, some serious fire power.
These guys also carry about 20 heavy duty cable ties each, just a small number of these guys will be able to subdue quite a large crowd in very short order.
I once got into the middle of a Kurdish demonstration in Frankfurt and saw them work up close.
They don't fcuk around, they take no sh*t, anyone acts up, he's on the ground before they can shout "I know my rights!", tied up and bundled into the back of a Polizei transporter.
And I could walk around in the middle of it, feeling perfectly safe, knowing that any trouble will be short-lived and as long as I don't start throwing half-bricks around, I will be left alone. It gives you a feeling of safety that is the hallmark of any true civilised country.
And the funniest thing:
You won't see half the amount of cops out and about in Germany. They don't have to be. People know they're there, they're never far off and they will be on the scene very quickly if need be.
Here I only get the feeling that the cops want to be as far away from any trouble and as close to any deli-counter with special offers on breakfast rolls as possible.
In a way I don't blame them, they obviously lack the training, equipment and attitude it takes to successfully restrain a crowd of troublemakers.

MyKeyG

One of my best friends who's since moved to the US was from Iraq and was amazed at what certain communities were allowed to get away with in Ireland. He said back in Iraq they would be told to move on. If they didn't, they wouldn't be seen again. Now obviously Iraq hasn't been the international moral yard stick since...well even Xerxes of Persia had a bit of a temper but surely we're entitled to some middle ground. I agree with (I think it was Captain) regarding CAB and such. Any group despite ethnicity or community, traveller or settled, Irish or immigrant that operate repeatedly in a manner of violence should be legally identified as a criminal organisation and be subject to such legislation as exists to deal with such activity.

tayto lover

BRAIN FEEDs wrote: »

http://clare.fm/news/charges-over-ennis-primary-school-incident-struck-out

Any comments people?

The Guards and the dpp need a good kick up the hole,even sacking after this!

i was in Ennis circuit court today and also saw another case,3 lads were aquited when a jury of 12 men and women found the lads not guilty on two serious charges.
whats this got to do with the headline? If you saw the witness the state put in the box,with his record the jury more than likely said the man lied to the cops and in court.
you may read about this next week.

Why would the Guards need a kick up the hole ? They did their job. Did you not read the report at all before making mad comments like that? It's solely a DPP fault.

BRAIN FEEDs

tayto lover wrote: »

Why would the Guards need a kick up the hole ? They did their job. Did you not read the report at all before making mad comments like that? It's solely a DPP fault.

I didnt have to read the report,as i was in court the day the judge struck the charges out.

the cops keep trying to have charges put back to other days,as the defendant might be on bail or have other charges pending,and the cops want all the charges dealt with together,that is the reason the judge struck out the charges in this case.

tayto lover

BRAIN FEEDs wrote: »

I didnt have to read the report,as i was in court the day the judge struck the charges out.

the cops keep trying to have charges put back to other days,as the defendant might be on bail or have other charges pending,and the cops want all the charges dealt with together,that is the reason the judge struck out the charges in this case.

That makes sense. Obviously the guards want all the charges put against these lads on the same day so that the presiding judge can see all the charges at the same time and maybe give them a longer sentence. I don't see how the judge can strike the charges out on those grounds though. The guards must be waiting on directions from the DPP which are not forthcoming.

BRAIN FEEDs

tayto lover wrote: »

That makes sense. Obviously the guards want all the charges put against these lads on the same day so that the presiding judge can see all the charges at the same time and maybe give them a longer sentence. I don't see how the judge can strike the charges out on those grounds though. The guards must be waiting on directions from the DPP which are not forthcoming.

On this occasion,both the local inspector and state solicitor were in court, usually its just one of the inspectors doing the prosecuting.

the day after the Bank/post office incident,there was a court in kilrush,where the guy who was arrested while hiding in the bank was up before a judge,he was granted bail that day in court.

His next appearance before a court was the following week in Ennis,where his name was called but he did not appear,(he was in st pats in dublin)Judge Durkan asked why was he not in court and an inspector said he was arrested outside kilrush district court last week,Durkan was fairly pee'd off at this stage as when bail is granted to someone,the judge always asks if the guards have any objections to bail(in this case,they should have said yes as the guy was in brrech of bail conditions) to which the guards replied No....
so in a lot of cases.........the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing......thats where my criticism of the cops comes from.

do you follow any of that?:)

tayto lover

BRAIN FEEDs wrote: »

On this occasion,both the local inspector and state solicitor were in court, usually its just one of the inspectors doing the prosecuting.

the day after the Bank/post office incident,there was a court in kilrush,where the guy who was arrested while hiding in the bank was up before a judge,he was granted bail that day in court.

His next appearance before a court was the following week in Ennis,where his name was called but he did not appear,(he was in st pats in dublin)Judge Durkan asked why was he not in court and an inspector said he was arrested outside kilrush district court last week,Durkan was fairly pee'd off at this stage as when bail is granted to someone,the judge always asks if the guards have any objections to bail(in this case,they should have said yes as the guy was in brrech of bail conditions) to which the guards replied No....
so in a lot of cases.........the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing......thats where my criticism of the cops comes from.

do you follow any of that?:)

Yes indeed. There must have been a communications breakdown when he wasn't in court. But why would he need to be in court if they were going to look for an adjournment while preparing the case, taking statements etc.
I think the Judge is just as much to blame as he seems to be a little Hitler and full of himself. I'm sure getting evidential statements and preparing the case takes time and then you have the DPP sitting on it as there seems to be a backlog there going by other threads.
I know a garda and i will ask him if he knows the reasons why this case was thrown out.