Euro's Team selection

PainIsTemporary

ecoli wrote: »

Thought so to but not on the squad released by the AAI

Rory Chesser is listed on the start list for the 1,500mts for the European Championships on the European Athletics website, yet it looks like the AAI will not send him.

Link: http://www.european-athletics.org/files/ec12/ECH_2012_-_Final_entries_MEN.pdf

Rory has ran the European Athletics Association 1,500mts A Standard (or the Athletics Ireland B Standard) 4 times in recent months. In the last 10 days he has competed over the distance 4 times trying to achieve the AAI A standard, and has travelled as far as Sweden and Finland to race to try and achieve the standard. Paul Robinson has run the B Standard for the same event and is just over a tenth of a second quicker than Rory. Paul is rightfully being sent. It looks like Rory will be left at home.

There are other athletes entered by the AAI who have ran fewer B Standards than Rory, yet they are being sent. There is one female athlete who hasn't even got an AAI B Standard and she's going! It's baffling!

It's a similar situation for Brian Murphy (4x400mt). He is listed on the relay team, however he is on the 400mts individual start list on the European Athletics website and has run the EAA A Standard (or Athletics Ireland B Standard) at least 3 times already this year. It's looking like he won't get the opportunity of competing as an individual in his event either.

In Rory's case he is not a carded athlete. He finances his training and the travel and accommodation for races himself, and doesn't receive support from the Sports Council (I don't know whether Brian Murphy receives support).

They are both on the start lists. They both deserve the chance of being let run.

AAI need to give a clear explanation as to why these 2 athletes, and particularly Rory, are not being allowed to compete in their respective events.

[Moderators: If there is a thread specific to the European Track and Field Championships I will repost this comment there.]

burnnotice

just heard this at the track tonight and came here to have a look and see if anyone was talking about it. The high-performance department at the AAI have no clear selection policy for the european champs, and to leave out athletes who have run the EAAs qualifiying standard is shameful. looks like the AAI have landed themselves into the usual mess.

VR46

If he's on the startlist that means he was on some list that the AAI sent to the EAA. Maybe he has pulled out an injury??

If fit, I agree he absolutely should be sent.

thirstywork2

http://www.facebook.com/#!/letroryandbriancompete

PainIsTemporary

VR46 wrote: »

If he's on the startlist that means he was on some list that the AAI sent to the EAA. Maybe he has pulled out an injury??

If fit, I agree he absolutely should be sent.

I spoke to Rory earlier. He is fit and healthy and bitterly disappointed not to be going to the European T&F Championships, recently having run 4 races in 10 days to try and achieve the time.

As I said above, I hope the AAI can give a clear explanation as to why he isn't going.

thirstywork2

Not only the amount of training these guys dobutthey have to fund warm weather training camps and the flights to races and expenses is madness.
friend of mine spent 4grand one summeron flights to BMC races and in Belgium and Holland.He now races the roads and cleans up and I can see why he wouldn't be bothered with track.
If you finished 1st in the national 1500m you might get your result in the paper and yet if you win a poxy 10k on the roads you get a pat on the back and cash in your back pocket.

Rory is young and is a serious talent,it's a shame these selectors have blinkers on.

ecoli

Mod: I have split this thread as deserves its own discussion thread

PainIsTemporary

I have just received confirmation from Rory that the AAI will not be sending him to the European Track and Field Championships this Summer.

ecoli

It does seem very unclear as to why he is not sent. If it was a case of no B standards fair enough but Robinson doesn't have the A either.

PainIsTemporary

ecoli wrote: »

It does seem very unclear as to why he is not sent. If it was a case of no B standards fair enough but Robinson doesn't have the A either.

A large number of the athletes being sent, not just Paul Robinson, are being sent with B Standards. It's great that they get this opportunity. However there doesn't appear to be any consistency in AAI's selection policy.

Why is Rory, a young athlete with 4 B Standards in his event, not being sent when he's actually been entered for the event? It's the AAI that are preventing Rory from competing. It's unjust.

As stated in the first post, to my knowledge there is a female sprinter being sent who doesn't even have a B standard.

On the issue of selections why was Maria McCambridge not selected for the 10,000mts when she has run inside the EAA A Standard (or the Athletics Ireland B Standard) for her event? She ran the time practically solo at the beginning of May, had given the AAI notice well over a month in advance of her intent to run in this mixed race, and yet she isn't being sent. First the Olympics, now this! She's getting royally screwed by the association!

ecoli

PainIsTemporary wrote: »

A large number of the athletes being sent, not just Paul Robinson, are being sent with B Standards. It's great that they get this opportunity. However there doesn't appear to be any consistency in AAI's selection policy.

Why is Rory, a young athlete with 4 B Standards in his event, not being sent when he's entered for event? It's the AAI that are preventing Rory from competing. It's unjust.

As stated in the first post, to my knowledge there is a female sprinter being sent who doesn't even have a B standard.

On the issue of selections why wasn't Maria McCambridge not selected for the 10,000mts when she has run inside the EAA A Standard (or the Athletics Ireland B Standard) for her event? She's getting royally screwed by the association!

I only mentioned Robinson as an example as it is the same event that Chesser was aiming for.

With regard to McCambridge her time was run in a mixed race so is not in fact eiligible to qualify her

PainIsTemporary

ecoli wrote: »

I only mentioned Robinson as an example as it is the same event that Chesser was aiming for.

With regard to McCambridge her time was run in a mixed race so is not in fact eiligible to qualify her

The High Performance Head mentioned to Maria that he had read on Boards that her time shouldn't be accepted because someone here pointed out that it was in a mixed race and was therefore invalid. If she had known that beforehand she wouldn't have run. She had been led to believe that if you gave prior notice to your National Federation of your intent to run in a mixed track 10,000mts, that the result/time would stand. There are no 10,000mts track races for female athletes only in Ireland. There are very few internationally. It's very unfortunate that information posted on this website has resulted in an athlete not being sent/considered. It also goes to show where some of these people making the decisions are getting their information from. It's unfortunate for Maria that she won't get the chance to compete.

With regard to Rory's non selection, as stated in my original post at the top of the page, the AAI need to clarify why Rory, who they earlier selected/entered for these championships (as his name appears on the list of entered athletes on the EAA website) is now not being let run. It is the AAI preventing him from doing so.

Pisco Sour

PainIsTemporary wrote: »

The High Performance Head mentioned to Maria that he had read on Boards that her time shouldn't be accepted because someone here pointed out that it was in a mixed race and was therefore invalid. If she had known that beforehand she wouldn't have run. There isn't 1 track 10,000mts for female athletes only in Ireland. There are very few internationally. It's very unfortunate that information posted on this website has resulted in an athlete not being sent/considered. It also goes to show where some of these people making the decisions are getting their information from. It's unfortunate for Maria that she won't get the chance to compete.

To be honest I would have thought it is common knowledge that performances on the track in mixed races do not count for record or qualifying purposes. You would think that Maria (or any athlete for that matter) should know this, or seriously question it beforehand (maybe she did), but regardless of that, I am simply astonished that HP did not know this and only found out about this on boards. That is so incredibly unbelievable that it surely can't be true? That is so embarrassing.

I feel for Maria. Nothing seems to be going her way at the moment.

ecoli

PainIsTemporary wrote: »

The High Performance Head mentioned to Maria that he had read on Boards that her time shouldn't be accepted because someone here pointed out that it was in a mixed race and was therefore invalid. If she had known that beforehand she wouldn't have run. There isn't 1 track 10,000mts for female athletes only in Ireland. There are very few internationally. It's very unfortunate that information posted on this website has resulted in an athlete not being sent/considered. It also goes to show where some of these people making the decisions are getting their information from. It's unfortunate for Maria that she won't get the chance to compete.

I am interested as to where it was stated that it shouldn't count? I recall being one of the people who wasn't sure whether it counted or not given the IAAF rules in that thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056595219&page=13

Also I find it shocking that the head of HP would not i(f not already) become familiar with qualification proceedure. Hope this is not true. Would hate to think that me bringing up the rules would have an influence on her selection especially as I was full sure she had the 2nd spot on the OG team sown up with her performances

ecoli

PainIsTemporary wrote: »

The High Performance Head mentioned to Maria that he had read on Boards that her time shouldn't be accepted because someone here pointed out that it was in a mixed race and was therefore invalid. If she had known that beforehand she wouldn't have run. She had been led to believe that if you gave prior notice to your National Federation of your intent to run in a mixed track 10,000mts, that the result/time would stand. There are no 10,000mts track races for female athletes only in Ireland. There are very few internationally. It's very unfortunate that information posted on this website has resulted in an athlete not being sent/considered. It also goes to show where some of these people making the decisions are getting their information from. It's unfortunate for Maria that she won't get the chance to compete.

With regard to Rory's non selection, as stated in my original post at the top of the page, the AAI need to clarify why Rory, who they earlier selected/entered for these championships (as his name appears on the list of entered athletes on the EAA website) is now not being let run. It is the AAI preventing him from doing so.

I thought this was the case according to the rules?

Performances achieved in mixed events (between male and female participants), held
completely in the stadium, shall be only accepted in the conditions set in IAAF Rule 147.
However entry standards achieved in these events shall only be accepted upon
presentation of the reasons to stage such mixed events and previous agreement by
European Athletics on the acceptance of these performances as entry standards;

http://hp.athleticsireland.ie/images/spolicy/2012/EC/12_EuropeanChampsF_150512.pdf

Pisco Sour

ecoli wrote: »

I am interested as to where it was stated that it shouldn't count? I recall being one of the people who wasn't sure whether it counted or not given the IAAF rules in that thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056595219&page=13

Also I find it shocking that the head of HP would not i(f not already) become familiar with qualification proceedure. Hope this is not true. Would hate to think that me bringing up the rules would have an influence on her selection especially as I was full sure she had the 2nd spot on the OG team sown up with her performances

Wouldn't blame yourself at all. It's the guys who are being paid to do these jobs, who are being paid to communicate information to athletes who should know the rules. Here we just discus stuff. If that's where the top dogs are getting their information then I'm afraid the AAI needs a big overhaul.

As you have said, I hope it's not true.

Is there any information on this from IAAF sources that can be linked up here? Where does t say specifically that mixed races don't count for record purposes. That has always been my understanding, but perhaps I am wrong.

ultrapercy

PainIsTemporary wrote: »

The High Performance Head mentioned to Maria that he had read on Boards that her time shouldn't be accepted because someone here pointed out that it was in a mixed race and was therefore invalid. If she had known that beforehand she wouldn't have run. She had been led to believe that if you gave prior notice to your National Federation of your intent to run in a mixed track 10,000mts, that the result/time would stand. There are no 10,000mts track races for female athletes only in Ireland. There are very few internationally. It's very unfortunate that information posted on this website has resulted in an athlete not being sent/considered. It also goes to show where some of these people making the decisions are getting their information from. It's unfortunate for Maria that she won't get the chance to compete.

With regard to Rory's non selection, as stated in my original post at the top of the page, the AAI need to clarify why Rory, who they earlier selected/entered for these championships (as his name appears on the list of entered athletes on the EAA website) is now not being let run. It is the AAI preventing him from doing so.

If this is true,and Im not doubting the poster,its a sick joke.Maria McCambridge must be disgusted with athletics in this country. Shes near the end of her career at least, Rory has years of mistreatment ahead of him.

burnnotice

there was confusion the night Maria ran in Irishtown, at first people were asking why was she going for a standard in a mixed race as it would not be accepted, however as the race boiled on, word filtered through the crowd that in fact a new rule stated that her time would be accepted due to (a)her positioning in the race, (b) the winning time of the race and (c) how many finishers. leaving the track that night everyone there were of the understanding that Maria had legitimately run the standard. There were several AAI officals spectating that also believed this and to everyone all seemed in order.
I think the next people heard about it was that High Performance had in fact got it wrong in terms of comprehending the new rules. I also heard that they hadnt known about the new rules and came onto boards to find out the legality of the performance and would it pass as a standard.
Whatever the reasoning is behind them not getting the facts right about the 10k womens standard and could she run the mixed race, we will never know there.
However, its another indication of the lack of intelligence that is coming out of the AAI, especially high performance.
This organisation is run by people who need to come to a public forum to comprehend international athletic rules, who blantently disregard their own selection policies by picking some athletes and not others. Their list of blunders, mishaps, and unfair practices is long and only gets longer and longer.
Something needs to be done, both to those missing out on their chance to represent their country this summer, but also those at grassroots and youth level who will only look at this fiasco and ask themselves, ''why bother'' and possibly leave the sport

ecoli

burnnotice wrote: »

I think the next people heard about it was that High Performance had in fact got it wrong in terms of comprehending the new rules. I also heard that they hadnt known about the new rules and came onto boards to find out the legality of the performance and would it pass as a standard.

I dont see how this could be fact considering the quoted rules which were posted here were taken from their own site

burnnotice

i wouldnt put much fate into the AAI site and their updating, considering last saturday their World Junior information for athletes was actually old info for Daegu

OutsideLane

ecoli wrote: »

It does seem very unclear as to why he is not sent. If it was a case of no B standards fair enough but Robinson doesn't have the A either.

Don't know where this confusion about 'A' and 'B' standards has come from, but most of what has been written (here & elsewhere..) is just not correct. Both Brian Murphy and Rory Chesser have the required entry standards for their respective events (46.7 s and 3:41.4) as defined by the European Athletics Association (see link below), and have been duly entered in their respective events. They have the required standard, they have been entered, but AAI has (now...) decided they will not run; no reason(s) given (yet...).
http://www.european-athletics.org/files/ech/Entry-Standards-Final2012.pdf

This is not the same as the standards for the upcoming Olympic Games and maybe this is where the confusion is coming from (I've heard one journalist mix up both of these different events and entry criteria). I've also heard it mentioned that it has suited some people in the AAI that there has been some confusion sown.

AAI has it's own set of entry criteria and "standards" for what they call major events which they say is based on both Olympic Games, World Championships and previous performances at Euro championships. This set of "standards" was published as recently as may 15 last, but one glance shows they show no resemblance to Euro standards. Arturo Casado (ESP) is the current European 1500m champion - he ran 3:42.74 when winning in Barcelona. Rory has run faster than that in each of his last 4 races...... One lady has run the so-called 'A' standard, but isn't even entered. Go figure.

OutsideLane

ultrapercy wrote: »

If this is true,and Im not doubting the poster,its a sick joke.Maria McCambridge must be disgusted with athletics in this country. Shes near the end of her career at least, Rory has years of mistreatment ahead of him.

Times achieved in mixed races are acceptable as entry standards. See IAAF rule 147 (it's also in the link on Euro entry standards I posted earlier...).

As someone else has posted, 'tis a sad day when AAI base their selection policy on the random posting of an unknown punter on an internet forum.

ecoli

OutsideLane wrote: »

Don't know where this confusion about 'A' and 'B' standards has come from, but most of what has been written (here & elsewhere..) is just not correct. Both Brian Murphy and Rory Chesser have the required entry standards for their respective events (46.7 s and 3:41.4) as defined by the European Athletics Association (see link below), and have been duly entered in their respective events. They have the required standard, they have been entered, but AAI has (now...) decided they will not run; no reason(s) given (yet...).
http://www.european-athletics.org/files/ech/Entry-Standards-Final2012.pdf

This is not the same as the standards for the upcoming Olympic Games and maybe this is where the confusion is coming from (I've heard one journalist mix up both of these different events and entry criteria). I've also heard it mentioned that it has suited some people in the AAI that there has been some confusion sown.

AAI has it's own set of entry criteria and "standards" for what they call major events which they say is based on both Olympic Games, World Championships and previous performances at Euro championships. This set of "standards" was published as recently as may 15 last, but one glance shows they show no resemblance to Euro standards. Arturo Casado (ESP) is the current European 1500m champion - he ran 3:42.74 when winning in Barcelona. Rory has run faster than that in each of his last 4 races...... One lady has run the so-called 'A' standard, but isn't even entered. Go figure.

While they do have the EAA standard qualification mark each nation reserves its own rights to set their own standard. This is why the marathon time for the GB team for London 2012 was 2.12 as opposed to the the IAAF time of 2.15. The point was that there is no transparency. Neither Robinson or Chesser achieved the AAI "A" standard yet one has been sent and one has not. This was published in December (though you are right it has been recently been updated:

http://hp.athleticsireland.ie/images/spolicy/2012/EC/12_EuropeanChampsF_150512.pdf

Looking at the selection Criteria it appears that Chesser has fulfilled many of the requirements such as Final Phrase readiness and consistency and repeatability


With regard to rule 147 this just means that the EAA would have had to sanction the mixed race. This reference to this rule was indeed quoted at the original time here on Boards:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056595219&page=13

For anyone to use this as a reference of an unknown poster (myself in this case) and also not reading it properly is very perplexing that it would be used as a reference point by our NGB.

woodchopper

ecoli wrote: »

While they do have the EAA standard qualification mark each nation reserves its own rights to set their own standard. This is why the marathon time for the GB team for London 2012 was 2.12 as opposed to the the IAAF time of 2.15. The point was that there is no transparency. Neither Robinson or Chesser achieved the AAI "A" standard yet one has been sent and one has not. This was published in December (though you are right it has been recently been updated:

http://hp.athleticsireland.ie/images/spolicy/2012/EC/12_EuropeanChampsF_150512.pdf

Looking at the selection Criteria it appears that Chesser has fulfilled many of the requirements such as Final Phrase readiness and consistency and repeatability


With regard to rule 147 this just means that the EAA would have had to sanction the mixed race. This reference to this rule was indeed quoted at the original time here on Boards:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056595219&page=13

For anyone to use this as a reference of an unknown poster (myself in this case) and also not reading it properly is very perplexing that it would be used as a reference point by our NGB.

At least Charles had the since to send Lee Merrien to the Olympics even though he was outside the actual time as was Ben Witbly. Neither ran 2.12 but were picked on common sense given previous performances. AAI High Performance do not have any of this however although Im glad David Rooney has been given a chance.

Pisco Sour

Interview with Rory Chesser

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/bewildering-exclusions-just-dont-add-up-3147608.html

Hanley

The AAI don't hold the purse strings but still own the lads?! Holy crap

Clearlier

As presented this is shockingly bad. The failure thus far of the AAI to explain themselves is baffling and suggests that they have no defence for what appears to be some remarkable decision making.

I hope that they can clarify this situation. It does nobody any good.

I also hope that Rory can find a way to compete. If he's entered and needs no further explicit support from the AAI then I think that he should go. Sometimes you have to seize opportunities no matter how oddly they present themselves.

Clum

Does anybody know why Mark Christie is not going to Helsinki?

He ran the 5000m A standard (the AAI A standard) a few weeks back in California but there's no mention of him on the team.

I know he's been trying to run the Olympic A standard but I would have thought at this late stage he'd go to the Euros. Plus the 5000m there should be quick being a straight final...especially with the likes of Mo Farah racing to defend his title.

Pisco Sour

Clearlier wrote: »

As presented this is shockingly bad. The failure thus far of the AAI to explain themselves is baffling and suggests that they have no defence for what appears to be some remarkable decision making.

I hope that they can clarify this situation. It does nobody any good.

I also hope that Rory can find a way to compete. If he's entered and needs no further explicit support from the AAI then I think that he should go. Sometimes you have to seize opportunities no matter how oddly they present themselves.

In that interview he says he wont run without the backing of his federation. He just wouldn't be in the right mindset to race properly if he has people from his own country in Helsinki who don't want him there and will not be behind him. I don't blame him.

The people who are responsible for this should be ashamed of themselves. They are remaining silent and just waiting for it to blow over. As members of the athletics community, who understand how hard these top guys and girls train, for little financial gain, we have a duty to keep at these clowns until they give us an answer!!

DaveH

Hi all,

Yesterday (24/6) Patsy McGonigale the Irish team manager joined us on Dublin City FM to discuss the Irish team selection for the European Championships, which included questions regarding the non selection of Rory Chesser & Brian Murphy.

On Inside Sport tomorrow at 7pm on 103.2 Dublin City FM the interview with Patsy shall be replayed.

Your feedback and comments are very welcome.

insidesport@dublincityfm.ie

Regards
Dave

103.2FM in Dublin City and County
www.dublincityfm.ie for streaming

Pisco Sour

Firstly I would like to thank everyone for their support of me and Rory over the last few days. The comments, messages and goodwill I have received has been truly humbling.

I haven't commented publicly on the matter thus far so that I would not prejudice the appeal process. This morning we were informed that our appeals were rejected unanimously.

I will leave others debate the inconsistencies and motivation of the selection committee I just want to state my view as an athlete.

My primary motivation in the sport is to wear the green singlet of Ireland. The singular source of pride I feel in wearing my national vest justifies any sacrifice I have made throughout the years.

I have operated outside the carding scheme all my athletics life. My support system has been my family and it is my greatest upset of this entire debacle that I will have several family members present in Helsinki for the heats of the 400m and I won't see them. My only relationship with the High Performance department is that they have actively prevented me from competing in a championship that I have the international entry standard for.

For the record I will only be present in Helsinki because of a relay qualification attempt that Brian Gregan, David McCarthy, Gordon Kennedy and myself organised amongst ourselves with the help of John Coghlan and David's father. Each of them made financial sacrifices when the AAI turned their back on us last season and I want to say thank you.

That Rory won't be there angers me and saddens me greatly. It is simply wrong.

I will finish with an extract from Athletics Ireland Vision and Strategy. I hope the powers that be, revisit this Vision in the context of the current situation.

“Sporting – We will ensure that everyone with athletic talent reaches their full potential by providing the appropriate pathways, funding and coaching. We will also provide the competitive opportunities and programmes to assist Irish athletes compete with distinction on the world stage.”

Once again, thank you. I truly appreciate your support.

DaveH

DaveH wrote: »

Hi all,

Yesterday (24/6) Patsy McGonigale the Irish team manager joined us on Dublin City FM to discuss the Irish team selection for the European Championships, which included questions regarding the non selection of Rory Chesser & Brian Murphy.

On Inside Sport tomorrow at 7pm on 103.2 Dublin City FM the interview with Patsy shall be replayed.

Your feedback and comments are very welcome.

insidesport@dublincityfm.ie

Regards
Dave

103.2FM in Dublin City and County
www.dublincityfm.ie for streaming

Folks full feature from Sunday available at

www.facebook.com/insidedcfm

Any details - insidesport at dcfm.ie