Would a marriage outside Ireland be recorded anywhere?

RGM

...anywhere in Ireland, that is. What I'm getting at is I found a church marriage record from 1903 and then couldn't find the civil record (in person in Dublin). The bride was born in England, so I was wondering if it was possible that they were married in England, then came back to Ireland and went through the motions for their church?

I'm just thinking out loud. Seems unlikely. I'm trying to figure out why I found the church record but couldn't find the civil record.

shanew

there can be mistakes in the Index - it was created manually, so errors could creep in, and marriage returns could have gone astray between the church and the GRO. I've seen several cases where one of couple is in the index but not the other - so I had to take a chance order the certs without a cross-match.

The most common reason for not finding a record on the Index is usually spelling variation.

If you think the marriage took place in England (or Wales) then you could try checking the BMD Index on FreeBMD

p.s. what was the church, and the names of the couple ?



S.

P. Breathnach

Very occasionally you can find a church marriage that is intentionally not recorded in the civil records. This happens when one of parties is already married in the eyes of the law but not in the eyes of the church. This can arise if one party was married previously in a civil ceremony, or in a religious ceremony of a religion that is not recognised by the church. It also arises where somebody had a prior marriage that was annulled by the church.

I suggest that you follow the line implied by Shane: I'd say the best bet is that there is a civil record that the index has not thrown up for you.

RGM

Yeah, I've already experienced that once where the bride wasn't listed in the index and I had to gamble a bit that the listing for the groom was what I wanted.

In this case though, neither party showed up where they were supposed to.

The names of the couple are Michael Corcoran and Kate Slyman. I'm not certain of the spelling of Slyman, but I did check for numerous variations in the index including Slymon, Sliman, etc.. According to the church info I have, they were married March 23, 1903 in the parish of Kilcommon (barony of Kilmaine) in Mayo. Both RC.

I found Kate in the 1901 census, single, living with her cousin (probably a cousin of one her parents as he was much older). And in both 1901 and 1911 she is listed as being able to speak Irish, so while born in England it would seem she is of Irish descent.

mathepac

While Slyman appears to be of English / Anglo-Saxon origin, what about other names like Slevin, Sullivan, Selwin / Selwyn or even Solomon, sometimes given as one possible origin of Slyman?

RGM

mathepac wrote: »

While Slyman appears to be of English / Anglo-Saxon origin, what about other names like Slevin, Sullivan, Selwin / Selwyn or even Solomon, sometimes given as one possible origin of Slyman?

I suppose I should be considering all possibilities, but she is listed in the 1901 census and the church marriage record as "Slymon." The spellings "Slyman" and "Slimann" came from family sources.

shanew

there are marriage records listed for the year/quarter and district (Ballinrobe), but no Corcorans, Slymans or variations that I can see.

closest match I've seen is for a Catherine Slamen, in 1902 two districts away in Glenamaddy.



S.

RGM

shanew wrote: »

there are marriage records listed for the year/quarter and district (Ballinrobe), but no Corcorans, Slymans or variations that I can see.

closest match I've seen is for a Catherine Slamen, in 1902 two districts away in Glenamaddy.

S.

Thanks for checking. At least I know I wasn't missing something obvious. I assume there was no corresponding Corcoran for the Slamen in 1902?

For whatever it's worth, their first child was born in December of 1905.

shanew

RGM wrote: »

Thanks for checking. At least I know I wasn't missing something obvious. I assume there was no corresponding Corcoran for the Slamen in 1902?

For whatever it's worth, their first child was born in December of 1905.

unfortunately not. The first thing I did when I saw that Slamen record was check for cross-matching Michaels or Corcorans, but nothing...

for reference the possible grooms listed are James Glynn & Thomas Owens.

It's as well to have fresh eyes double check... sometimes someone will spot something obvious


Shane

RGM

shanew wrote: »

unfortunately not. The first thing I did when I saw that Slamen record was check for cross-matching Michaels or Corcorans, but nothing...

for reference the possible grooms listed are James Glynn & Thomas Owens.

It's as well to have fresh eyes double check... sometimes someone will spot something obvious


Shane

Just so I'm clear, were you checking the all-Ireland index, or just that district?

shanew

both

Hermy

shanew wrote: »

If you think the marriage took place in England (or Wales) then you could try checking the BMD Index on FreeBMD

Sorry to butt in but I just want to say thanks for the above link. I wasn't aware of it previously and it has given me a marriage record.:)

shanew

use this link to order certs online (England/Wales) :

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

RGM

Any suggestions on my next move in figuring this out?

shanew

The only other option for a civil record (if there was one) I can think of would be to see if there's any access to the local copy - i.e. records for Ballinrobe registration district or more correctly Superintendent Registrars District.

The only town I see listed for the civil parish is Hollymount (Lewis, 1837), which was also the centre of Registrar's District or sub-district.

There doesn't seem to be a registration office in Ballinrobe any more, but might be worth contacting the one in Castlebar - see : Registration Offices (HSE)



S.

RGM

shanew wrote: »

The only other option for a civil record (if there was one) I can think of would be to see if there's any access to the local copy - i.e. records for Ballinrobe registration district or more correctly Superintendent Registrars District.

The only town I see listed for the civil parish is Hollymount (Lewis, 1837), which was also the centre of Registrar's District or sub-district.

There doesn't seem to be a registration office in Ballinrobe any more, but might be worth contacting the one in Castlebar - see : Registration Offices (HSE)



S.

I still haven't acted on this suggestion, a good one, due to work schedules and the time zone difference. I have been actively banging my head against the wall though. I've ruled out one possible Michael Corcoran in the 1901 census, which actually leaves me with just one other possibility among Michael Corcorans living in Mayo. I'm on the verge of going through all Michael Corcorans in the entire census.

I'm expecting Kate Slyman's birth cert in the mail this week, and though I doubt that'll help any with this situation, it should at least give me a distraction in that I should be able to extend her line.

RGM

Castlebar checked the original registers and have no record of the marriage.



I suppose after that news I should just be grateful there is a church record, but, wow, that is frustrating. I'm now doubting whether I'll be able to know for sure which guy in the 1901 census is my great-great-grandfather.