Last Chance Saloon

LegacyUser

All of my adolescence and adult life I'm struggled with image problems, social ineptness, lack of friends, passive aggressive, lack of self worth, no self condifence, lack of intimacy. The list goes on and on and on.

I've tried so many things from CBT to Prozac and all of it is a load of rubbish.

I'm so fed up with my life. I keep knocking at the door asking for help, but no one genuinely cares enough to help me. I've been to counselling and from my experience they are the biggest bunch of con artists out there.

I admit I am struggling with all this. However, they come out with the usual line "we only give you the tools to help yourself, blah blah". I find this totally unacceptable - it is their job to help me, not just pick off the low hanging fruit.

Anyone could hand out notes on positive affirmations, and all this rubbish - but where is the actual help?

At 35 years old, I've got no friends, have never felt love from anyone - my parents probably love me in that stand-offish Irish Catholic way. No girls give me a second look. I've not socialised in so long, I can't remember when. It is now at the stage where goign out fills me with dread even though I want to go out.

I'm lashing out because I'm frustrated with the support given to me and my inability to sort this mess out. I just don't know how to deal with it. I don't believe that standing in front of the mirror repating "I am a confident and interesting person" every morning is going to do anything for me.

So, why when counsellors start hitting the wall with me do I get bumped off the list for more easy hits. They are a joke. Not many professions can treat their source of work like that. Imagine mechanics saying I can't fix this car easily, I skip it and move onto this one with the blown indicator bulb!

I'm asking for help and no one wants to do their job.

At my age, the chance of me getting married, having kids, etc is pretty much gone. I'm so far down this road that by the time I get back on track, I'll be too old - if I do get back that is.

I just see a really bleak future for me and it scares me. I don't know how to deal with it and there is no one to turn to. I've spoken to my Doctor about it numerous times, but it seems that all avenues have been exhausted. i've even gone private for counselling, but it makes no difference. In fact, she told me to (paraphrasing) 'get out there and start living'.

Is that the best these people can do?

What do I do now - roll over and quit or do something else - what?

edellc

OP seriously get a grip, Cant believe im saying this but your councillor is right "we only give you the tools to help yourself" that is all they can do, they cant move in with you and hold your hand on a daily basis, they give the tools and its up to you to help yourself which you clearly dont want to do

You are the one that is in control of your life, you are the one that can make a difference and only you...you say you struggle with image problems well if you dont like what you see when you look in the mirror change it, most people who come across as confident are just really good at faking it till they make it, we all put on some kind of an act when we encounter social events you dont go in and when someone starts to talk to you start going on about how sh*t your life is, and if you do end up talking to people you be the one that asks the questions if you dont feel confident about your life

You seem to be blaming everyone else on your issues and expecting everyone else to fix them and that is not going to happen, life is tough and we all at some point in our lives suffer from lack of confidence, self worth, image issues some for a short time others for a long time, but it is only you that can change it

Can you not get off your back side and go to the gym, join a club - book club, salsa dancing anything outside your comfort zone that pushes you, volunteer for something there are plenty of things you can be doing, but its up to you to stop making excuses and blaming others and do something

ennis81

There has been times in my life when I could have written this post myself. The one thing I have come to realise is you have to help yourself. Visulise yourself as a small lost little boy and HELP HIM. Your life will be crap if you don't start viewing it in a more positive way. You are at terrible risk of becoming very bitter and screwed up. You need to find a way to like yourself and start doing something.... anything to make yourself feel better. Don't write yourself off, drugs and counselling are not for everybody and they are not a magic cure. What you are looking for is not out there it is in you.
You are not alone we are all struggling through life in our own way, a few years back a couple lived across the road from me who I was very envious of, he was always doing home improvements, nice car, she was beautiful, lovely kids etc etc (I thought they had the perfect life while I was a struggling full time working single mother) anyway I didn't see him for a weeks and she walked past my house one day while I was in the garden, I said hello and she seems v upset, I asked her if she was ok and invited her in for a cuppa, Long story short he had been beating her and making her life a misery for years she had finally managed to throw him out, so while I was envying her "perfect life" she was envying mine. It was a lesson I never forgot.
Take care of yourself please;)

BraziliaNZ

edellc wrote: »

salsa dancing

Can we stop suggesting this as a fix for everything in PI for God's sake?
But Edel is right OP, you need to get busy. Start exercising, get involved with anything you have an interest in. I am nearly 32 and single and have been for a while but I'm not moaning about lack of intimacy or giving up on ever settling down or having children. If it happens it happens, if not, well there are other things in life. Why are you being so negative about everything? You're not the only one with problems, people have far worse problems than you but they overcome and deal with them. What have you done to try and improve things, apart from putting all your eggs in a doctor or therapist's basket?

Morag

too tired to think there are no magic wands or magic pills, there is only wanting your life to change and being willing to do the work to make that happen.

It's not easy the change as to start with yourself, people are not cars you can't just rip out a part and change it. Have you tried CBT? It can be very result based and helps you make changes. I would suggest you go back to your dr and ask for a referral to a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist.

But you have to put the work in, you have to know you can make those changes.

"You cannot teach a man anything.
You can only help him discover it with in himself."
Galileo Galilei

daisybelle2008

too tired to think wrote: »

it is their job to help me

No it's not, it's always your job. They cannot live your life for you.

You cannot change the world, you can only change your attitude towards it. You can control that. The tools and tablets are not going to 'fix' you.
You need a mental shift in your thinking that does not feel so negative towards society. The world is a mirror image of your mind. You will attract a much more positive life if you put aside your cynical, passive aggressive nature. That is your problem to fix. You don't need a therapist to do that. Going to therapists seems to be an excuse for you to hold onto your horrible attitude.

Honestly I don't know you, but you come accross and aggressive, humourless, joyless and self entitled with a stinking attitude towards other people. How do you propose someone or some tablet 'fixes' that for you.

Why don't you try another tack, do it yourself for yourself?

You seem to think I won't put any effort into being happy unless a) someone else does it for me b) all my circumstances change beyond recognition.

Neither of those things are going to happen. You firstly have to make an effort to be content, happy and have fun, look at things positively regardless of circumstances. It takes a bit of effort at first but soon becomes a habit.

Seriously your mindset is the problem, the only problem and you are the only one you can fix that...

edellc

lol I only suggested salsa dancing as it puts most people outside their comfort zone and everyone is paranoid doing it at first and embarrassed so its an ice breaker and can end up being a funny light hearted way to meet people it also puts you in close contact with the opposite sex so pushes the concentration with that too and its a great way to exercise and keep fit, how can you not suggest it and the more they do it the more confidence it builds so how is it wrong to suggest such a thing especially for shy, self conscious, low self esteem people

Meauldsegosha

OP you're 35 you've plenty of time to meet someone fall in love and have kids. But you do have to be brave and put yourself out there. It will be scary at first but it's not going to kill you.

I wouldn't be the most confident of people but I've learnt not everyone is going to like me and I'm not going to like everyone. If I chat to someone and there is no reciprocation its their loss I'm a nice person.

mikemac1

Ah OP, you're still young yet
My uncle was a bachelor all his life and got married in his 50's, now as happy as can be

'get out there and start living'.

Wise words
If the councsellor was dodgy they would use you as an easy score and take your money for years and years.
Instead that counsellor is giving you advise that will lose you as a client


You're halfway there and pretty soon you'll be bitter at everyone you see with a house, marraige, promotion, nice car


You can have all these things, you can do what you want but wallowing around and looking for an instant Tony Robbins style solution isn't going to help you




99% perspiration 1% inspiration
What do you want? Get off boards, write your list, get off your ass and self pity and work for it


Now this is meant in a nice way
But you don't come across as a pleasant person from that post and then you say you've no friends and girls won't look at you. Sounds bitter
Maybe look at how you are coming across.

LegacyUser

edellc wrote: »

You are the one that is in control of your life, you are the one that can make a difference and only you...you say you struggle with image problems well if you dont like what you see when you look in the mirror change it

How? That's an easy thing to throw out at me. Do you think I've not tried to sort this mess out?

you dont go in and when someone starts to talk to you start going on about how sh*t your life is

Eh? Where did you get this notion from that this is how I talk to people?

You seem to be blaming everyone else on your issues and expecting everyone else to fix them and that is not going to happen

Where do I do that? My only point is that when I've gone multiple times for help - looking to change things - I've found no help. Only people reading from a determined script which they do not waiver from. If they were good at their job, I'd not be in this position. Otherwise, what is the point of counselling - sounds like easy money, when you don't have to actually help the person get better.

Can you not get off your back side and go to the gym

I go to the gym more than probably 95% of people on here.

join a club - book club, salsa dancing anything outside your comfort zone that pushes you, volunteer for something there are plenty of things you can be doing, but its up to you to stop making excuses and blaming others and do something

I've volunteered from Special Olympics Ireland, gone to numerous classes ranging from cookery, self help, languages and there has been no effect. Book clubs and Salsa do not interest me.

You're not the only one with problems, people have far worse problems than you but they overcome and deal with them. What have you done to try and improve things, apart from putting all your eggs in a doctor or therapist's basket?

Some people have more problems than me and some people have less problems than me. Your point is?
As for what I've done, see above.

Have you tried CBT? It can be very result based and helps you make changes. I would suggest you go back to your dr and ask for a referral to a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist.

Tried it. The counsellor just boasted about how he has no problems chatting to people, in the pub, gym or whereever. I'm not sure what his approach was, but it made me feel like **** and worthless. He told me to put myself out there and for 'homework' told me to go to a pub on my own. Bad idea, I felt like a dick standing on my own in a bar. Told him how I felt things were going and he said we shoudl knock it on the head.

The world is a mirror image of your mind.

Airy fairy rubbish.

Honestly I don't know you, but you come accross and aggressive, humourless, joyless and self entitled with a stinking attitude towards other people. How do you propose someone or some tablet 'fixes' that for you.

Fair point. But I wasn't like that at the start.

Why don't you try another tack, do it yourself for yourself?

Do what? This is my point. I don't know what to do. It's easy for everyone to sit down and be internet experts and say what to do. But if you knew anything about depression and the problems I'm having you'd know that it is not as easy as you lot seem to spout it to be.

What do you want? Get off boards, write your list, get off your ass and self pity and work for it

Cheap shot.

Do you all not think I've tried? Every month, every year it goes on. It gets worse. Doubts come in. You actually start believing that there is something wrong with you and that that is why you have no friends or life. It's a never ending downwards spiral. So, to comes out with lines like "get off your ass and self pity" or "your horrible attitude" or "You're not the only one with problems" or "You are at terrible risk of becoming very bitter and screwed up" or "seriously get a grip" or "get off your back side" or "get off your back side" does nothing other than make me feel worthless and a freak.

This is just cementing in my mind that there is something wrong with me. I don't know how to fix it. I didn't know 10 years ago and I still don't know now. I reached out from help to sort it and got next to no help. As it gets worse with each passing year, it gets exponentially harder to climb out.

However, it's easy to be an internet expert and tell the person to wise up and get on with it...

thefeatheredcat

too tired to think wrote: »

All of my adolescence and adult life I'm struggled with image problems, social ineptness, lack of friends, passive aggressive, lack of self worth, no self condifence, lack of intimacy. The list goes on and on and on.

That, is worrying, actually. Not what you've felt but that this has been since adolescence and yet, what has changed? You have become disillusioned that you can be helped at all, that you feel that there's nothing at all to help you left. Which in return has left you feeling even more helpless and hopeless than ever before that the frustration in your post does stand out.

In all the tools and help that has been provided have you felt any sort of validation from anyone during all those years? Perhaps the lack of validation from others has hindered any sort of help you've received that you cannot see any merit or value in what you've tried and attempted to achieve?

You sound like you have given up. That you've been shown the way forward with the door open for you, having been given all the skills and means necessary that should have helped yet you won't walk through the door. You need to ask yourself why. You want to go out, yet you don't. Yet there's actually nothing really holding you back at all, just the issues you have which either you have not fully dealt with yourself on some level (without the counselor) or there's something else stopping you beyond confidence, such as a fear of actually changing your life which is stopping you from being helped or seeing actually you have been helped afterall but there's just this one component to the equation - You - that is preventing you being helped.

In all situations in life when someone needs help, no matter what it is, there is the individual's own willingness to participate on an active level that engages them and is meaningful to them. You come across as though you'd rather have a cure in a very tidy way without that participation and that perhaps is because these are long standing issues over a long period of time in which from your point you have made no progress on, which I'm sure that it not quite the case.

I have to agree with mikemac on the point about the counselor - they're not trying to resist a challenge or make you feel worthless either or that they can't help; they're giving you a chance to experience life with what you have and to see how you turn out afterwards, telling you to go take the chance, cross that rope bridge and just see what happens. And then iron out issues from that. Because that will be new ground to discuss and manage and see how you perceptions differ from how you felt previously.

For now though, it is if you are standing in the same place asking different people to help you cross that bridge, asking for assistance, yet you and only you, regardless of whatever help you receive from anyone else, no matter what type of positive affirmations people give you, or find yourself running away from people whose help didn't get you anywhere causing you to run from the problem, only you can actually cross that bridge. Nobody is going to carry you across or force you against your will across because it won't achieve anything. And even if anyone could actually change everything in your life, how you look to your attitude to how people respond to you, you personally wouldn't have gained anything in the long term in which actually would make you happy, proud and confident that you have indeed done it.

Only you can decide what happens from here onwards, to either accept that nothing and nobody can help you, or realise that you can help yourself that bit more by facing down that fear that stops you from helping yourself.

Perhaps on a subconscious level you actually don't want to be helped or don't find merit in the help because that means you'll have to embrace a different life, one that is an alternate reality to what you have lived, far far away from the comfort of familiarity in what you feel, in how you see yourself to something that is strange and scary.

You know something though, I'd still be confident that you can still help yourself and still in turn, be helped. And I think you're frustrated with your own self and your life situation enough to give yourself the kick to do it. Your life is far from over, 35 is still considered young in many ways, so you have many years ahead of you to enjoy a happier kind of life and while it will be an adjustment, one that you will get comfortable and familiar with in time, I think you know yourself it will be better than how you felt when you wrote your original post. That frustration you feel is your strength; you obviously want the help but you're only half determined to want it, but with that frustration you feel, that is a driving force for real change.

edit: if you haven't already, have a read of "Compassion and the Individual" on the Dalai Lama's site (under Messages section)

Agent J

You say you've gone looking for help but havent found any. More accurately you haven't found anything you think is help. There is a distinct difference.

What exact help do you want OP? Be spefic. You don't want mantras or stuff like that. Fair enough they don't work for a lot of people. What do you think would help you? And please don't give me the "If i knew that,i wouldnt be asking..". You have some thoughts/ideas about it.

It is tough to change ones thought processes. It's a slow process but it can be done. You are going to have to start to reframe your thinking out of this constant negativity. Your life sucks at moment. Ok well it doesnt have to stay that way. You have a list a mile long of things that are wrong. Start picking individual items and tackling those one at a time. Trying to climb a mountain at once is next to impossible, do it in slow steps. One doesn't work or is going badly. Switch to something else.

I don't know if you are familar with the concept of "Locus of Control". Based on your posts it reads like you have a very strong external LoC. Basically everything happens to you by external forces and you have little/no control over it. It's time to start recognising that you have the ability to shape things yourself and to take personal responsability. You can't control everything but you have more control over your own life then you seem to think.

This stuff takes time. There is no quick fix. Time is in the order of months years. However it can be done.

"Life is 20% what happens to you & 80% how you react to it"

a fat guy

You seem to be in a mid-life crisis OP, as nothing has turned out in life the way you planned.

I too am guilty of believing that I'll be married with a kid or two by around the age of thirty, having been with my significant other for several years, who doesn't exist yet it seems...

Anyway, life rarely follows your plans. As some army dude said "No plan survives contact with the enemy". So quit thinking that you're going to get married anytime soon, because women can smell desperation. Just give up on that for now and pursue other interests.

You could really learn something from a fellow student in my college who's in his forties and easily the best student in the class. He has no kids or a wife or anything like that and he's having a laugh!

Just give up on the plans (I must do the same myself!) and do whatever makes you happy. I'm sure you have a few hobbies, so go pursue them! And go to the gym at least once a week too, nothing makes you feel better than a workout. So chin up, you've got another 50 or so years ahead of you and it'd be a waste to be sad for them, now wouldn't it?

Pa Dee

too tired to think wrote: »

All of my adolescence and adult life I'm struggled with image problems, social ineptness, lack of friends, passive aggressive, lack of self worth, no self condifence, lack of intimacy. The list goes on and on and on.

I've tried so many things from CBT to Prozac and all of it is a load of rubbish.

I'm so fed up with my life. I keep knocking at the door asking for help, but no one genuinely cares enough to help me. I've been to counselling and from my experience they are the biggest bunch of con artists out there.

I admit I am struggling with all this. However, they come out with the usual line "we only give you the tools to help yourself, blah blah". I find this totally unacceptable - it is their job to help me, not just pick off the low hanging fruit.

Anyone could hand out notes on positive affirmations, and all this rubbish - but where is the actual help?

At 35 years old, I've got no friends, have never felt love from anyone - my parents probably love me in that stand-offish Irish Catholic way. No girls give me a second look. I've not socialised in so long, I can't remember when. It is now at the stage where goign out fills me with dread even though I want to go out.

I'm lashing out because I'm frustrated with the support given to me and my inability to sort this mess out. I just don't know how to deal with it. I don't believe that standing in front of the mirror repating "I am a confident and interesting person" every morning is going to do anything for me.

So, why when counsellors start hitting the wall with me do I get bumped off the list for more easy hits. They are a joke. Not many professions can treat their source of work like that. Imagine mechanics saying I can't fix this car easily, I skip it and move onto this one with the blown indicator bulb!

I'm asking for help and no one wants to do their job.

At my age, the chance of me getting married, having kids, etc is pretty much gone. I'm so far down this road that by the time I get back on track, I'll be too old - if I do get back that is.

I just see a really bleak future for me and it scares me. I don't know how to deal with it and there is no one to turn to. I've spoken to my Doctor about it numerous times, but it seems that all avenues have been exhausted. i've even gone private for counselling, but it makes no difference. In fact, she told me to (paraphrasing) 'get out there and start living'.

Is that the best these people can do?

What do I do now - roll over and quit or do something else - what?

You have a very bad attitude. You need to take ownership, have a stake in improving your lot not just seek a magic solution. You need to get real and assess yourself properly. 35 is not old either btw

LegacyUser

The Feathered Cat - Thanks for your ylong post. I'll reply to it later, as it requires some time!

What exact help do you want OP?

I want to know why I can't make friends. What is stopping me from crossing the bridge. Why do I always hold back. Why am I always afraid of what others will think of me. How do I overcome my negative self worth. What makes it easier for many others to make friends in places and situations where I can't see the opportunities. Why am I scared to change my life, even though I don't like it. How do i change all these midsets and turn my life around.

You have a very bad attitude.

I go through phases of anger, depression and positivity. Mostly the former two.

a fat guy

LCS_3 wrote: »

I want to know why I can't make friends. What is stopping me from crossing the bridge. Why do I always hold back. Why am I always afraid of what others will think of me. How do I overcome my negative self worth. What makes it easier for many others to make friends in places and situations where I can't see the opportunities. Why am I scared to change my life, even though I don't like it. How do i change all these midsets and turn my life around.

Because you can't appreciate how precious the time you have left is.

You are going to die in about 50 years time from now, and that's me being generous. Nothing you've ever done will matter, since it will be forgotten, the pop stars of today will become mere footnotes and every single emotion you've ever felt will become moot. You will die along with everyone else around you. Everyone that has or could cause you harm will die just the same. No-one can escape this fate, absolutely no-one. Not you, not your acquaintances, not your family, not your pet's, no-one.

Please allow the finality of this statement to truly sink in. Accepting the inevitability of death can be quite difficult the first time you truly think about it. If you've accepted it, then you're probably feeling pretty down or maybe you're feeling free of your worries.

Now consider your options. Immortality is out of the question because it's impossible. Sadness will accomplish nothing. So why not just be happy for the sake of it? You've got nothing better to do, so you might as well! Why worry about what those people think about you when we're all going to be gone soon enough anyway? Why not just be happy because you choose to be? If you're going to go out, then it might as well be with a smile on your face.

Stop being afraid of enjoying life and start bloody living it!

looksee

Do what? This is my point. I don't know what to do. It's easy for everyone to sit down and be internet experts and say what to do. But if you knew anything about depression and the problems I'm having you'd know that it is not as easy as you lot seem to spout it to be.

This pretty well sums it up OP. 'You don't understand me'. At a guess I would say that a large percentage of people who post in PI have first hand experience of depression and all the issues that go with it, including all the reasons and backgrounds. Please do not insult us by telling us what we do not understand. In any other circumstances your post might well be reported and you could be infracted for insulting other people.

Did you ever hear the story of God and the drowning man? There was a man caught in severe floods and he was sitting on his house roof saying 'God, I know you will help me, please rescue me from these floods'. Along came a neighbour in a rowing boat, 'climb down into the boat and I will get you to shore'. 'No thanks', shouted the man, 'I have prayed and God will rescue me'. Suit yourself, said the neighbour.

A little while later the coastal rescue boat came by 'hang on there, we will put a line across and get you to shore' they said. 'No thanks', shouted the man, 'I have prayed and God will rescue me'. 'OK, we have other people to help', said coastal rescue.

It was getting dark and the rescue helicopter hovered above him. A rescuer came down on a cable and said 'Right, I'll take you up'. 'No thanks', said the man, 'I have prayed and God will rescue me'. So the rescuer left.

By this time it was dark and the man was getting worried. 'God, I prayed and believed and you didn't help me' At that God's voice came down to him 'Look I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more do you want!'

Sorry about that, but it does reflect your situation. You have got to want to be helped. Other posters have put it very well. We have tried to offer help, you have rudely called us 'internet experts'. Well what did you expect? This is an internet forum of ordinary people with the kind of advice you would get from a friend. You don't even want to take one step in our direction.

So what do you want from us? There is no magic, we are not you, you are the only person who can improve your life, we are all fighting to deal with our own lives, we cannot take on yours as well, we can offer a shoulder to lean on but we cannot carry you.

If it gives you satisfaction to be miserable and sorry for yourself, then carry on, if you genuinely want to feel better about your life then open your ears and your mind and start listening.

LegacyUser

a fat guy wrote: »

Now consider your options. Immortality is out of the question because it's impossible. Sadness will accomplish nothing. So why not just be happy for the sake of it? You've got nothing better to do, so you might as well! Why worry about what those people think about you when we're all going to be gone soon enough anyway? Why not just be happy because you choose to be? If you're going to go out, then it might as well be with a smile on your face.

Stop being afraid of enjoying life and start bloody living it!

I'm not blaming anyone for this, but I was brought up in a house where anyone who stood out or was not sterotypical good loooking or different was commented on in a negative manner. People on TV, local people, whoever there was never any praise or rarely good words spoken - just puts downs and begrudery.
It seems to have rubbed off on me and affects me as I don't want to be laughed at. I have struggled with socialising. I would like to try internet dating but I'm too scared incase someone in my local village sees my profile (regardless of why they were on the site themselves).

Although from the slating I've got on here I'm not sure if I'm in a position where this would be a good thing to do.

I understand what you are saying and I have seriously considered some things - but for various reasons do not have the courage or conviction to carry through.

I'm not blaming my upbringing - I am my own person and make my own decisions, but it has shaped me into the person I am now. I just am letting it continue.

At a guess I would say that a large percentage of people who post in PI have first hand experience of depression and all the issues that go with it, including all the reasons and backgrounds. Please do not insult us by telling us what we do not understand. In any other circumstances your post might well be reported and you could be infracted for insulting other people.

Fair comment. However, the response was to a 'just do it yourself' statement which I felt was blasé in that imo it makes light of my problem.

If it gives you satisfaction to be miserable and sorry for yourself, then carry on, if you genuinely want to feel better about your life then open your ears and your mind and start listening.

This could not be further from the truth. I have no one to turn to. Everyone who knows me has no idea of what I going through. Not my parents, not my work colleagues, friends. No one.
It is something I am too embarassed to talk about. I am trying to sort it out. But to use your analogy I don't know what I am looking out for. Maybe the rescuers have came and went for me.

looksee

This could not be further from the truth. I have no one to turn to. Everyone who knows me has no idea of what I going through. Not my parents, not my work colleagues, friends. No one.

You have no-one to turn to...you have parents and work colleagues and friends...that is how life is. Many of us know the feeling. Work colleagues shouldn't be in that list anyway, unless they are also friends. And there are degrees of friends, many are good friends but you would not feel easy about issues like you describe. You are not on your own. The feelings you describe are not unusual.

Just think for a minute - why would you want everyone who knows you to know what you are going through? How would that help? It would really just make you weaker and more dependent. To talk to one person who could help sort your thoughts out, fair enough, but you have been to therapists who offered you a line, and you would not take it, you wanted to be magically removed from your life and transplanted into a new one. You have to grab the line and haul yourself in. Its hard work and dangerous, but its cold and lonely on your rooftop.

Lordy, I am sorry about all the analogies, but that is what everyone is trying to say, you have to mostly do it yourself. We will haul away on the end of the rope, but you have to be prepared to take the chance.

Maybe internet dating isn't such a good idea at the moment. Try and find something that will allow you to re-invent yourself a bit. Something a bit extrovert like a theatre group or a choir, or get some adrenalin going with something like airsoft - charging around shooting people while in disguise? Great fun and no-one will give a damn who you are or whether you are making an eejit of yourself!

Most of all though, stop keeping account of your 'failures'. Stop listing out the things that you think hold you back. You go forward in life, every day is a new chance to be the kind of person you want to be. You may take a step back for almost every step forward, but don't keep count, keep moving.

LegacyUser

OP, maybe it's time to start again.

I've been to bad therapists... I, like you, have tried to find out "my problem" and got frustrated to find myself back at square one after seeing them

My plans to get things done never really amounted to much and I found motivating myself to do anything hard.

For those who have never been like this, they cannot understand why one wouldn't "just do it". There's a disconnect somewhere and when the counselling and advice don't work, you're back at square one. Which is where it seems that you are now.

It may stem from a lack of self belief, a lack of esteem and a lack of confidence... those combined with maybe a bit of depression and very negative thinking are a recipe for failure.

So what to do - well, I have been seeing a therapist for a year now and we've only gotten onto self esteem issues after unravelling the major part of my problem (which sounds a bit like yours).

I think that you need to find someone new to talk to, especially if you don't have friends you feel you can to talk to about it.

There is a very good book called The Feeling Good Handbook by Dr. David Burns - I'd suggest just reading the chapter on untwisting your thinking. It basically shows you where you might be thinking very negatively and to put a realistic thought process in place.

I know no one with perfect parents - there are those who blame their parents for being too controlling or not being controlling / guiding enough. There are those who pamper their kids and those who don't show enough love.

We are where we are and we cannot change that. But it's time to face things head on and decided if you're going to allow it to continue to effect you as negatively as it does.

I used to blame my parents a bit but now, I see that (a) they are human and (b) they did what they thought was best for me and my siblings and (c) they are a product of their parents.

What I would say is this:

(1) you have friends - so people do like you. That's something to congratulate yourself on. It's a good start.
(2) You have a job - I presume that you have done well at this to keep it. Again, it shows that you can take responsibility and work towards goals
(3) You have reached the end of your tether with regards trying to "fix" yourself. Well, take this opportunity to start again.

Find yourself a decent therapist - one who won't fix you but will show you the way you can fix yourself. My therapist is in Dublin but I'm now realising where I have gone wrong. I was trying to paper over the cracks rather than discover and fix what was causing the cracks.

It's like trying to get fit.... I won't get fit if I listen to my trainer and not do the exercises. But, if I start off my day with a cycle and do some weights, I feel better about myself and each day I get stronger, fitter, thinner and I start eating better - when that ball starts rolling and I start seeing improvements, it encourages me to eat better, drink less, do more exercise and I become fitter - it's an ongoing process though. I can't just say "I'm fit " and then go back to not exercising. I have to keep it up. You go to the gym so you know this. Treat your issue as you do your body. Set yourself goals and objectives and reward yourself when you have reached them.

Your issues will effect your chances of having a relationship but it's not too late to find someone. In fact, I think that you get to know yourself properly in your mid to late 30s and you'll have a better chance of meeting someone who has gotten to know themselves too.

The happier you are in yourself, the more your chances will increase. The same goes for socialising.

My social life was dreadful for many years.... I took up a hobby (a sport), which widened my social circle but it wasn't until I was more comfortable with myself that this could happen.

Standing alone in a bar: Here's the thing - most people feel like dicks standing alone in a busy bar. I know I do. It used to kill me to walk into a place meeting up with people - especially if they were late. But, the older I get and the more comfortable I am with me, the less it bothers me. That said, if I was in a busy bar of a Saturday night, on my own, trying to meet new people, that would be a ridiculous task.

I hope this helps in some way. You are reaching out for help and that's a good thing. Your frustration means that you have tried and it just hasn't worked out for you.

dellas1979

Lads, will you give the poor OP a break. I am not sure if you are male or female. You write like a male, but you said in your opening post that at 35, time is running out to have kids (which I suspect you are then female?).

I dont think a "sit down, write you life on paper, and go out and do it" advice is going to work here. That is for someone who is able to do this - the OP isnt. That is over whelming to them at the moment, and they wont understand this advice.

OP, through all the confusion, hurt and pain youve felt in your life, you have little or no self-esteem or self-confidence left. That is the bed rock of any person, and through what ever condition you have (and I suspect from what you wrote, there is something underlying here and something you need to explore more), this has eroded.

If there is an under lying condition, the OP doesnt know what it is or how to deal with it and all the self-esteem and self-confidence is gone, things can get very very confusing and frightening for the individual.

Writing a list and "going out and doing it" isnt going to help (nor is salsa dancing) - that advice, while well intentioned, skims the surface of what is actually going on. You'd give that advice to someone maybe who needed a "pep" talk. A kick in the arse.

I feel this is where it has been going wrong for the OP, with regards councelling - he/she has been given a "kick in the arse" talk. But really they dont, so to speak, have an arse to kick yet, because there is nothing there.

A councellor should challenge you and how you think. Not just sit there and give you the kick in the arse talk. Through that, you start to challenge or question things. They dont indeed have any magic answers, but they should be able to answer some of your questions "why do I think/behave like that" and give you ideas and suggestions or guide you to finding them. I imagine if you did go to a councellor who you didnt connect with, it would be a horrible and waste of time experience, and indeed may be lead to even more frustration. You certainly need someone who is more empathetic.

If you do nothing over the next week, just even do some research on a councellor who may suit you. It really isnt a "one councellor fits all" scenario. I'd be looking for someone who, after one or 2 sessions, is responding back to you-making you think, suggesting things you can do/read, other assessments/people you can talk to, in conjunction with councelling.

Finally, you may not have or have little of self-confidence or self-esteem, but you are showing that you have self-worth. You are worth something, and that is where your bed rock lies at the moment. And that is admirable after all you have been through. It really is.

KyussBishop

I think one of the most common shortsighted aspects of all these threads is suggesting "go out and live life" etc. assuming for people that things get better so long as they put in the effort socially; for many people, there are impassable problems which make 'just doing things' counterproductive due to their issues.

It's like running into the same brick wall again and again; there is usually an underlying problem not being addressed (e.g. difficulty reaching a certain level of social skills) which puts a limit on progress.

I don't know anything about the OP's situation, so don't know if that applies there, but most of the time that kind of advice is very shortsighted/counterproductive.


Anyway, I'm in a similar position to the OP and am a bit stuck as well; not sure what to advise. I've been doing 1 on 1 psych sessions myself for a year now, and while it's helped in some aspects, in others it's not helping at all (that does not discount the help it has provided though); will be doing group type sessions soon, but not sure what they'll be like yet. Maybe something to consider for yourself too; at the very least I'd try a different psych.

Personally, I feel my social skills are not that great, and I'm pretty hypersensitive socially so have not found a good way to work on them properly yet, which doesn't make me even more uncomfortable; I think I'll need a 'safe' way to work on that (social skills in general), in order to get working on my issues, but I haven't found a good way of going about it yet.


Reading through the thread after writing up this post, it really is surprising how bad and even judgmental many peoples advice has been, and how many assumptions about the OP the advice makes; a lot of it's very ignorant actually, giving very poor/general advice, and then throwing it in the OP's face when he says its not helpful. That's extremely ignorant/discouraging; better to not post at all than stuff like that.

looksee

KyussBishop wrote: »

Anyway, I'm in a similar position to the OP and am a bit stuck as well; not sure what to advise. I've been doing 1 on 1 psych sessions myself for a year
Reading through the thread after writing up this post, it really is surprising how bad and even judgmental many peoples advice has been, and how many assumptions about the OP the advice makes; a lot of it's very ignorant actually, giving very poor/general advice, and then throwing it in the OP's face when he says its not helpful. That's extremely ignorant/discouraging; better to not post at all than stuff like that.

KyussBishop, your opinion that previous posts have been judgmental is rather ironic, since you are jumping to a fair few conclusions yourself!

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but after reading your post it seems that you do not actually have an opinion, except to say that everyone else is wrong.

This is a discussion board, at best the advice and opinions we can offer are just those of a friend making suggestions. If someone comes on here asking for opinions, then that is what they will get. Maybe, somewhere in the offerings, someone will say something that strikes a chord and helps start a thought process that is helpful.

What you are doing is coming in with 'I have the same problem, I have not found any solutions, no-one understands us, leave us alone'. How does that help the OP? If s/he wanted to be left alone s/he would not have come on boards asking for opinions.

Are you suggesting that answers should limit themselves to 'oh you poor thing, you have a hard life, we will be sorry for you'? How would that help?

Contrary to what you apparently think, many of the people on this forum have had exactly the issues that you and the op are talking about. Some may have succeeded in dealing with them and being happier, some may have just learned to cope, others are still struggling.

If you look at the OP's first post you will see that we have only said much the same as the therapists: we can give you all the support in the world, but you are the only person who can actually change things. Why are you so anxious to deny this? Therapy is not an antibiotic that you take and get better, it is more like a rung of a ladder that helps you climb out of the hole you are in.

You are saying that the suggestions of 'go and get on with your life' are not helpful. But you cannot be in therapy 24/7, you have to live your life for the other 6 days and 23 hours of the week, the more you can make your everyday life creative and fulfilled the easier it will be to live with yourself.

KyussBishop

looksee wrote:

What you are doing is coming in with 'I have the same problem, I have not found any solutions, no-one understands us, leave us alone'.

Hold on there, that ^^ is exactly the kind of wholly ignorant misrepresentation of peoples posts, and totally judgmental attitude that I am talking about.

It's insulting to the point that you posit that a random stranger on the internet, thinks they know better about someones personal problems than the person themselves, and when they think they are receiving unhelpful advice they should be basically judged and attacked in the manner you just did there.

That is nothing other than opinionized patronising ignorance, thinking you know better about the poster than they themselves, and that they should just shut up and take their medicine (i.e. take your opinion), and that it is good for them but they are too mired in their own issues to see it.

To actually use someones issues to try and undermine their disagreement with you is crass and insulting to a very high degree, and for people who are vulnerable who may not see through that like I do, it can be totally counterproductive, making them even more insecure about themselves and their issues, and at the very least simply frustrating their efforts to get good advice.


Well meaning but unhelpful advice is one thing, and is mostly just unhelpful which is not so bad in itself, but turning things around on a poster and using their issues to judge them when they disagree and point out how something is unhelpful, is completely counterproductive and actively harmful.


As for the rest of you post, beyond the bit I quoted:
A whole series of deliberate misrepresentations of my post, and slantings of my stated attitude; if that's the kind of stuff you're likely to face the OP with, or other posters when they take issue with your advice, it's my opinion you have little to contribute beyond your initial opinion.


On reading back, here's a select quote from your first post (attacking the OP!):

looksee wrote:

too tired to think wrote:

Do what? This is my point. I don't know what to do. It's easy for everyone to sit down and be internet experts and say what to do. But if you knew anything about depression and the problems I'm having you'd know that it is not as easy as you lot seem to spout it to be.

This pretty well sums it up OP. 'You don't understand me'. At a guess I would say that a large percentage of people who post in PI have first hand experience of depression and all the issues that go with it, including all the reasons and backgrounds. Please do not insult us by telling us what we do not understand. In any other circumstances your post might well be reported and you could be infracted for insulting other people.
...
If it gives you satisfaction to be miserable and sorry for yourself, then carry on, if you genuinely want to feel better about your life then open your ears and your mind and start listening.

That is unbelievably unhelpful and insulting to the OP (in fact you ought to be infracted for that, I've reported that); your first post didn't come in to try and offer helpful advice, but to bash the OP instead and basically say a condescending variation of "take our medicine and stop being a baby".

There are some criticisms about the OP's attitude from other people that I may agree with, and I do think if the OP is able to, they should keep getting out and try to do as much as they are able, and try to make that as inherently enjoyable (even despite possible social difficulties) for their own sake as is possible.

However, it sounds a lot to me like the OP might be coming across the same problems each time which may not be getting overcome by their efforts; if that is the case, generalized advice is likely to trivialize and ignore that greater problem, when that may be what the OP is trying to focus on (what to do about that specific problem), and it is wrong to attack the OP for taking issue with that.

Ickle Magoo

KyussBishop - enough of the back-seat modding, taking it upon yourself to declare other posters should be actioned is unhelpful, off-topic and back-seat modding - all of which can earn yourself mod action.

While I appreciate this is clearly an issue close to your heart - I think you need to take a step back. This is a public forum and posters are entitled to give their advice as long as it does not breach forum charter...this sometimes includes advice some would rather not hear - it is up to the moderators of this forum to decide what is appropriate and up to the OP to take on board or dismiss advice given.

Please acquaint yourself with the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter before posting in this forum again.

Many thanks.


As per site policy, if you have an issue with any moderator instruction or request please contact a relevant moderator via PM - DO NOT drag the thread further off-topic by responding on-thread

LegacyUser

looksee wrote: »

You have no-one to turn to...you have parents and work colleagues and friends...that is how life is. Many of us know the feeling. Work colleagues shouldn't be in that list anyway, unless they are also friends. And there are degrees of friends, many are good friends but you would not feel easy about issues like you describe. You are not on your own. The feelings you describe are not unusual.

It's good to know that. And no, I would have no intention of telling workmates about my predicament - not sure why I said that.

To talk to one person who could help sort your thoughts out, fair enough, but you have been to therapists who offered you a line, and you would not take it, you wanted to be magically removed from your life and transplanted into a new one. You have to grab the line and haul yourself in. Its hard work and dangerous, but its cold and lonely on your rooftop.

To be fair, my problem is that I don't know how to grab the line.

Maybe internet dating isn't such a good idea at the moment. Try and find something that will allow you to re-invent yourself a bit. Something a bit extrovert like a theatre group or a choir, or get some adrenalin going with something like airsoft - charging around shooting people while in disguise? Great fun and no-one will give a damn who you are or whether you are making an eejit of yourself!

I've got into a rut which is hard tog et out of in the evnenigns. I need to join some classes or groups, but I struggle to find something I like or am interested in.
It reminds me about a recent thread question on here: "What do you do for fun?" I do nothing . I don't have any interests or things I'd like to do. So, this is difficult for me. I don't know how I'd react if someone asked me that question.

Most of all though, stop keeping account of your 'failures'. Stop listing out the things that you think hold you back. You go forward in life, every day is a new chance to be the kind of person you want to be. You may take a step back for almost every step forward, but don't keep count, keep moving.

Thanks for that, I'll try. However, I always say that!

I think that you need to find someone new to talk to, especially if you don't have friends you feel you can to talk to about it.

There is a very good book called The Feeling Good Handbook by Dr. David Burns - I'd suggest just reading the chapter on untwisting your thinking. It basically shows you where you might be thinking very negatively and to put a realistic thought process in place.

Maybe it is time to go back to counselling. However, after trying so many of them I'm not sure if there will be a benefit, still no harm in trying.

Your issues will effect your chances of having a relationship but it's not too late to find someone.

I hope so. Your post was very interesting and thanks for taking the time to type it all out. I'll see if I can get a copy of the book you recommend.

You write like a male, but you said in your opening post that at 35, time is running out to have kids

Male

If you do nothing over the next week, just even do some research on a councellor who may suit you.

Thanks - I've just realised typing this that I have a phone number for a counsellor recommended by my doctor. I could not get an appt previously with her as she was too busy. I might try her again...

I think I might give off cool vibes. I think I'm just being focused or daydreaming but I think some people pick up on it incorrectly. I probably need a session with the people from Would Like to Meet! One previous person picked up immediately that she though I was an anrgy person. This shocked me as I didn't consider myself in that frame up until then. I thought I bottled it up well.

daisybelle2008

lsc5 wrote: »

To be fair, my problem is that I don't know how to grab the line.


I've got into a rut which is hard tog et out of in the evnenigns. I need to join some classes or groups, but I struggle to find something I like or am interested in.
It reminds me about a recent thread question on here: "What do you do for fun?" I do nothing . I don't have any interests or things I'd like to do. So, this is difficult for me. I don't know how I'd react if someone asked me that question.

I think this is more to do with your attitude. I cannot tell you the amount of hobbies/clubs I have joined over the years. My friends call me a 'hobby whore' lol. But I trying new things to see if I like them is the only way I can truly know if I will like them. I haven't stuck with everything but so what?,
It sounds like you dismiss out of hand negatively things you haven't tried. Why not give youself a challenge to join and try some new activities and open your mind give them a good crack and see what rocks your boat.

I have found some of the things I have joined just to accompany friends who wanted someone to tag along have been things I have enjoyed the most.

Seriously you seem to find and excuse at every turn not to be open minded and adventurous.

Honestly if you try enough things you will hit on something that you like despite yourself.

It is funny things that I joined thinking I would really like have turned out to be the ones I hated the most! I am now tied up 24/7 with a hobby I am really enjoying that I joined on the suggestion of a friend (I met doing another sport I joined on a whim!).

looksee

To be fair, my problem is that I don't know how to grab the line.

OK its a fair point, and its not very clear how to do it, but its not something that you can really give instructions for. I'll give it a go though.

This thread is a line. People are throwing out ideas to you. Some of them will not work, some of them might. You have to get actively involved enough to try and find something that will work. If you just continue the way you are, sadly thinking that there is no point and nothing interests you, then you are not attempting to grab the line.

Last year I was looking for an interest and couldn't find one, so I started a club! I was amazed that it worked, and it was one of those right place right time things. It is not something I would recommend really as its very chancy, but it was what I had to do to broaden my horizons.

I do not recommend most night classes as I find you rarely get to know people that way, you do the class and leave, and that's it.

You have to think, what are you good at. Are you musical, are you a good organiser, are you co-ordinated enough to do a sport? Do you like to talk - how about Toastmasters? Do you like walking - a hill-walking group would be sociable without being demanding. Can you play chess or bridge, would you like to learn? All these are very standard suggestions, you need to look around, in the library for example, see if anything there appeals. Get the local papers and see what is happening. Would you do something a bit different - sky diving or start an allotment.

You are the only one who can decide what you want to do, but don't dismiss things, give them a go if they are even remotely appealing.

If you do give one of these things a chance, that's another line. People will offer you friendship - very cautiously maybe, other people have hangups too - be prepared to respond, you have to make some of the running. Don't expect too much from a new acquaintance, but offer friendship in return.

Give it a go - go round to the shop now and get the local newspaper and see what is happening. Go to an art exhibition, a table quiz - there's always a table looking for another body - anything that's on offer. Don't expect too much from it, and don't assume that because you don't get to know someone first go, its anything to do with you, it isn't, its just the way life is.

I know you say you are unsure and have poor self image and so on, so do many people, you can either sink under the weight of that or do what most of us do and just say, feck it, no-one else is perfect, I'm as good as any of them. People believe what you tell them - and if you 'tell' them by the way you carry yourself that you are gauche and inept, then that's what they will believe. If you act as though you are confident and relaxed, they will believe that too! Then remind yourself that it doesn't matter a damn what they believe anyway

dellas1979

Obviously cannot and would not diagnose via a forum, but I am fairly certain there is something else under lying with you.

Ring that councellor your GP recommended and tell him/her everything - at least you have done something and gotton back on the ladder. Its not really the focus I think at the moment to analyse how to get you onto the social scene, but rather your behaviours and attitudes towards things that are hindering you to getting what you want out of your life.

There is a very good book called neurodiversity by Thomas Armstrong, and it may answer some questions that you have.

nowyouresix

Why me?
Poor me!!

That's what I'm reading from you OP.

I'm sure counsellors down the years have given you plenty of advice, but it probably involved you changing yourself in some way, and you didn't like the harsh truth, and so they're crap, and they didn't help you?? Right??

I'm not a psychologist, counsellor , or anything of the sort, all I can say is that you have to accept your own role in the way you find yourself in life.

You want an answer as to why you can't make friends: you're stopping yourself.
What is stopping you from crossing the bridge: You are doing that yourself.
etc etc etc.

I hate to sound harsh, but it is you that is causing your own misery...

So next question is: Why do you hate yourself so much?

In order to let someone love you, and be open with others, you have to love yourself first, make yourself your best friend. Feeling sorry for yourself, and acting as if the world owes you something because you're here is a sure way of pushing people away.

Nothing is stopping you only yourself.

Good luck xx

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies. It is getting me pumped up to start something. Thinking of maybe photography or some activity like that. I'm actually starting to play football at work now even though I'm ****e at it - good exercise!

I think it is important that I do an activity I like for itself rather than for the end goal of making friends etc. I was pushed down this road before by previous counsellors who encouraged me to try things and it went all wrong.

Maybe my mind was just not in the right place at the time or maybe I needed to fail first in order to succeed (profound ).

Dellas do you have an inkling as to what you think might be the underlying issue?

I do not recommend most night classes as I find you rarely get to know people that way, you do the class and leave, and that's it.

+1. This is definitely my experience.

Seriously you seem to find and excuse at every turn not to be open minded and adventurous.

This is a fault I know I have and struggle to overcome.

Why do you hate yourself so much?

I went through this with one of my previous counsellors. Basically, in a nutshell it was down to a stereotypical Irish family upbrining where there was no conversation in the house bwetween siblings and/or parents. Hence I always viewed conversation as a means of getting a messsage across - and did not understand chit-chat or idle chat. I was conditioned for talking to have a purpose. Parents do/did not socialise together hence I had no role models for making me a socially active person. I did not pick this up. They prefer to keep to themselves and are quiet people although my father can have a temper and rarely has a good word to say about anyone, although he has calmed down over recent years in this respect. My mother is very meek and easy going. I am really close to her.
So, basically my problems are due to my upbringing, but I can (and will not) no longer use this as an excuse for where I am.