Safety/risk involved in one night stands

neuro-praxis

We talk a lot around these boards about having safe sex. I want to propose that if sex is with someone you do not already know and trust, then it's by definition seriously un-safe. FWB is one thing: you have an arrangement with a person that, presumably, you trust.

But picking up randomers and having sex with them, even while using precautions, seems to me to be taking a very serious risk, at least for heterosexual women. I would feel more trusting of lesbians - is this misguided?

I can't fathom having sex with a man I did not know and trust. The risks of assault, or just ending up somewhere you really do not want to be, just do not seem worth it for a shag. It seems to me that one night stands with strangers really ought to be avoided.

Of course, many, many assaults take place involving perpetrators known to victims, carried out by people who ought to be trustworthy, such as family members. There is no denying this. I also would not accept that a woman is responsible for an assault committed by a stranger, even if she had initially consented to sex - responsibility lies solely with perpetrators. I wish to discuss risk, not responsibility.

I noticed that a lot of you commented in the recent thread about carrying condoms (a sensible practice imo) that you do not have one night stands. Why is this?

Am interested in your views.

Also to women who enjoy one night stands with people previously unknown to you, do you ever feel fearful, or have you ever regretted the experience?

Tigger99

I've had ONS and they were very enjoyable. I'm not going to justify my real life actions on an internet forum but I'm pretty shocked at how judgemental and patronizing the first post is.

You propose that they are unsafe?! Really? That's a pretty sweeping statement to make.

By the way, the intention may not be to victim blame, but I can't imagine a woman who was raped during a ONS reading the first post feeling anything but blame.

Princess Peach

I don't have one night stands because I know I wouldn't enjoy them. I just have that kind of head where I can't separate sex, thoughts and feelings. I couldn't enjoy myself with a guy I didn't know a trust, a thousand things would be going through my mind, and I know I'd feel awkward afterwards. I wouldn't get anything good from a one night stand, with a stranger or a friend.

I have been in situations where strangers on nights out have invited me back for sessions afterwards, and I've always said no. Even though they seemed friendly, I would not go alone back to a strangers house in the night, I probably wouldn't go even with 2 or 3 girls if we didn't know whose house it is. Just for reasons of being smart and safe. I have had two incidents of finding myself in a situation that maybe could have turned out bad, but I came to my senses and left.

It might be a wrong way of thinking, I just prefer to avoid unsafe situations than to take risks, just happens that it manifests in mistrust of strangers.

Novella

I don't have one night stands because the one time I did have one, it was an assault. While I consented in the beginning, he then started to hurt me and although I said no, he didn't stop. So I would never take that risk again.

The_Minister

Maybe I'm being silly, but surely being willing to have sex with the men you go home with effectively removes any reason for them to rape you?

Why would a man rape a woman willing to have sex with him?


EDIT: Sorry, I was replying to the OP not Novella. What I mean is that the risk should be very low, logically.

Princess Peach

The_Minister wrote: »

Maybe I'm being silly, but surely being willing to have sex with the men you go home with effectively removes any reason for them to rape you?

Why would a man rape a woman willing to have sex with him?

A girl could change her mind, sober up, decide she its not something she wants to do and then finds herself in the home of a stranger maybe.

Motorist

The_Minister wrote: »

Maybe I'm being silly, but surely being willing to have sex with the men you go home with effectively removes any reason for them to rape you?

Why would a man rape a woman willing to have sex with him?

To exert control or if the female withdraws consent or never gives it in the first place.

Tigger99

Just like princess peach said, a girl could change her mind and let him know that this is the case.

neuro-praxis

Tigger99 wrote: »

I've had ONS and they were very enjoyable. I'm not going to justify my real life actions on an internet forum but I'm pretty shocked at how judgemental and patronizing the first post is.

You propose that they are unsafe?! Really? That's a pretty sweeping statement to make.

By the way, the intention may not be to victim blame, but I can't imagine a woman who was raped during a ONS reading the first post feeling anything but blame.

No need for the histrionics. I am not judging casual sex, as even a cursory read of the post will demonstrate. I am questioning the risk of having sex with strangers. No need to justify your actions to anyone.

neuro-praxis

Tigger99 why not explain why they are safe so I can understand your POV better.

analucija

I had couple of one night stands. They are grand when you don't want to end up in a relationship. They were on holidays or at some house parties, I'd never go to somebody's house after just meeting them even if I had no intention sleeping with them. In the same way I prefered people I had ons with not to know my phone no or address. I never had any problems. I was in couple of sticky situations (ok sexually abused) and they all happened when I was perfectly good girl and just stayed in the wrong hostel, gone to the wrong cinema or just walked to the car. So maybe I'd be safer if I'd have couple of more one night stands instead of going to the cinema?

Princess Peach

analucija wrote: »

I had couple of one night stands. They are grand when you don't want to end up in a relationship. They were on holidays or at some house parties, I'd never go to somebody's house after just meeting them even if I had no intention sleeping with them. In the same way I prefered people I had ons with not to know my phone no or address. I never had any problems. I was in couple of sticky situations (ok sexually abused) and they all happened when I was perfectly good girl and just stayed in the wrong hostel, gone to the wrong cinema or just walked to the car. So maybe I'd be safer if I'd have couple of more one night stands instead of going to the cinema?

All of these situations you named most likely happened when other people were around though and it would be easier to get help than alone in a room or house with a man.

Giselle

I don't have ONS, for quite a few reasons and feeling unsafe is only one of them. I would be uncomfortable being that vulnerable with a complete stranger, and the experience would be unlikely to be enjoyable for that reason alone.

That said, lots of people have and enjoy them and presumably don't feel unsafe. Its not for everybody, which doesn't mean its not right for anybody.

neuro-praxis

analucija wrote: »

I was in couple of sticky situations (ok sexually abused) and they all happened when I was perfectly good girl and just stayed in the wrong hostel, gone to the wrong cinema or just walked to the car. So maybe I'd be safer if I'd have couple of more one night stands instead of going to the cinema?

I am not proposing there's a moral problem with women who have one night stands, or that there is "good girl" or "bad girl" behaviour.

I am suggesting that some situations for sex are possibly riskier than others.

I'm glad that your ONS experiences were safe and am sorry that you have suffered abuse in other contexts.

The Big Red Button

To be fair, regarding your reference to the other thread - not all women are going to say openly on an internet forum that they have one night stands. There's the chance that it might give the wrong impression of the person, and Boards isn't really all that anonymous. So, even if someone posted on the other thread "I don't have one night stands", it doesn't mean that they haven't had one night stands, or that they won't do it again.

I agree with Tigger that your opening post does come across as being quite patronising and judgemental, to be honest.

I don't think it could be denied that there's an element of risk involved with one night stands. I do think, though, that Ireland is so small, that anyone you hook up with is bound to know a friend of a friend, etc, so it's unlikely that they're a total stranger. Also, I suppose a lot depends on how much you feel you can depend on your judgement of character. I mean, I've often gone back to house parties etc with people I didn't know very well - there's an element of risk involved there, too.

I've never had a one night stand myself, by the way. I could see how I might, though, under certain circumstances - there are certainly benefits to it. I've often seen friends of mine do it, and they've rarely had any problems or regrets.

neuro-praxis

chatterpillar wrote: »

To be fair, regarding your reference to the other thread - not all women are going to say openly on an internet forum that they have one night stands. There's the chance that it might give the wrong impression of the person, and Boards isn't really all that anonymous. So, even if someone posted on the other thread "I don't have one night stands", it doesn't mean that they haven't had one night stands, or that they won't do it again.

I agree with Tigger that your opening post does come across as being quite patronising and judgemental, to be honest.

I'm sorry Chatterpillar but I flat out disagree with several of the things you've said so far.

Firstly if you are going to accuse me of judging or patronizing, it would be great if you could highlight the offending things I have said so that I can clarify or apologise?

Secondly you seem to be proposing that the women who claim not to have had one night stands are lying. This, ironically, seems pretty patronizing to me.

Also you claim it could give the wrong impression. Of what?!

I don't think it could be denied that there's an element of risk involved with one night stands.

So...you agree with my central point.

I do think, though, that Ireland is so small, that anyone you hook up with is bound to know a friend of a friend, etc, so it's unlikely that they're a total stranger. Also, I suppose a lot depends on how much you feel you can depend on your judgement of character. I mean, I've often gone back to house parties etc with people I didn't know very well - there's an element of risk involved there, too.

I disagree with the first part. It's a comfortable notion. When I go out in Dublin to a pub or restaurant, I rarely know anyone there bar the people I have arrived with.

The second is a good point. Our ability as judges of character definitely makes a difference.

The third I agree with. I would never go back to a house party of people I don't know, unless I was in a group.

I've never had a one night stand myself, by the way. I could see how I might, though, under certain circumstances - there are certainly benefits to it. I've often seen friends of mine do it, and they've rarely had any problems or regrets.

Again, ironic. You claim that most women who make the claim that they have never had a ONS are not telling the truth, and then go on to make that very claim yourself?

Glad to hear your friends have rarely had problems or regrets.

analucija

Princess Peach wrote: »

All of these situations you named most likely happened when other people were around though and it would be easier to get help than alone in a room or house with a man.

So it makes me even more of an idiot that it happend? In two of those situations nobody was around and in one I was 12 and scared. I have no desire discussing my personal experiances but I prefer if people wouldn't just assume. Yes responsible behaviour is important but sometimes you are just bloody unlucky.

Princess Peach

analucija wrote: »

So it makes me even more of an idiot that it happend? In two of those situations nobody was around and in one I was 12 and scared. I have no desire discussing my personal experiances but I prefer if people wouldn't just assume. Yes responsible behaviour is important but sometimes you are just bloody unlucky.

Sorry I didn't mean to imply anywhere you were an idiot or try to make light of your experiences. I was merely referring to your point that you would have been safer having one night stands in the cinema. Of course these things happen everywhere and are very unfortunate but you have to admit there is a greater risk of it behind closed doors, a decision a person makes themselves.

The Big Red Button

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Firstly if you are going to accuse me of judging or patronizing, it would be great if you could highlight the offending things I have said so that I can clarify or apologise?

I think it's a good idea for a thread, and a valid discussion.

I think perhaps the tone of your message is a little judgemental though. E.g. "picking up randomers and having sex with them" ... it implies that the woman goes out on the hunt with the intention of bringing some random guy home. Whereas, in reality (in my friends' experiences), they meet a stranger who they get on great with, really click with, and it goes from there. It's not a sleazy case of "picking up" a randomer, it's a case of meeting somebody that they actually like, and getting to know each other very quickly.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Secondly you seem to be proposing that the women who claim not to have had one night stands are lying. This, ironically, seems pretty patronizing to me.

Just to clarify.

When I said that, I had in mind friends of mine who may, on occasions in the past, have had one night stands. It's also quite possible that they may do so in the future.

But it's understandable that they wouldn't make the statement "I have one night stands." Because it's not something that they do regularly. And they might not intend to do it again, they might have written off previous incidents of it as something they used to do when they were younger.

So, say if one of the friends I'm thinking of were posting in that thread, they would probably be of the mindset that "I don't have one night stands anymore, I have no real intention of doing it again, but I'd better carry a condom just in case." I'm not suggesting that they'd be lying. And it's entirely possible that anyone who posted in that thread that they "don't" have one night stands, are people who never have and never will do so. But some might have.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Also you claim it could give the wrong impression. Of what?!

Being quite blunt, there are some who would judge a woman who openly admitted to having one night stands. I'm not saying this is right - it's not. But, as I mentioned, Boards is really not all that anonymous. If a woman was posting on that thread, and was aware that friends/family/colleagues may be reading her posts, I can see why they might not want to admit to one night stands.

Again, I might be wrong - but it's another possibility.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Again, ironic. You claim that most women who make the claim that they have never had a ONS are not telling the truth, and then go on to make that very claim yourself?

Where did I ever say "most"?! I was only giving a couple of reasons why some of the posts on the other thread might not have been entirely accurate. "I don't have one night stands" is not the same as "I've never had a one night stand."

Personally I would have no problem in admitting that I'd had a one night stand, if I'd ever had one. I've gone home with men on the first night on more than one occasion - however, this would have been back when I was 18/19, and I definitely would not have been ready for sex on the first night (and luckily I never felt in any way pressurised.) I was in a relationship for most of my twenties, so it wasn't ever an issue for me. If I was single now, I wouldn't go out with the intention of going home with a man - but I could see how it might happen, and I have no problem with admitting that.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

But picking up randomers and having sex with them, even while using precautions, seems to me to be taking a very serious risk, at least for heterosexual women. I would feel more trusting of lesbians - is this misguided?

I'm curious about this bit. Is it because another woman is likely to be physically closer in size to you, and therefore will have less of an advantage in that respect? Or is there another reason?

(I don't disagree with you on this point, by the way - just curious!)

Morag

The_Minister wrote: »

Maybe I'm being silly, but surely being willing to have sex with the men you go home with effectively removes any reason for them to rape you?

Why would a man rape a woman willing to have sex with him?


EDIT: Sorry, I was replying to the OP not Novella. What I mean is that the risk should be very low, logically.

Cos s/he did something to turn her off and she wanted to stop or s/he wanted sex acts which she wasn't willing to take part in or s/he didn't want to wear a condom/use protection and she insisted.

There is a whole range of things which can sour a sexual encounter with a stranger and while we would hope that anyone we end up trying to have that encounter with, when it does go sour would have the grace to end things in a civil manner but that doesn't always happen, esp with drink and people feeling 'entitled'.

and yes I used s/he to mean the person who is the aggressor cos the notion that it doesn't happen between women is rubbish.

Abi

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I'm sorry Chatterpillar but I flat out disagree with several of the things you've said so far.

Firstly if you are going to accuse me of judging or patronizing, it would be great if you could highlight the offending things I have said so that I can clarify or apologise?

I really don't think that she was, I was actually thinking reading the post myself how 'cut and dry' you seem to see things. It just doesn't work that way.

I just think she picked out a point and you're taking offence given the wording you've used, for no reason. There is no harm in challenging a view NP, nor is it an offence to have a view other than yours without having the intent of personally attacking yours.

Secondly you seem to be proposing that the women who claim not to have had one night stands are lying. This, ironically, seems pretty patronizing to me.

Again, no need. There are plenty of women who do not make a habit of ONS's, but give it some wiggle room. This wiggle room I mean is the gap there between were women don't ordinarily sleep with random men, but there may be a blip somewhere but they are always ready and responsible by carrying a condom. I don't see how you could fault them, unless one is to judge ONS's in general.

Again, ironic. You claim that most women who make the claim that they have never had a ONS are not telling the truth, and then go on to make that very claim yourself?

I suspect she may be like myself, I wouldn't judge a woman who doesn't make a habit of it, but fine with it so long as she is being careful.

Glad to hear your friends have rarely had problems or regrets.

I'm sorry, but given your whole post, you're the only one being patronizing and judgemental. I've often read, and agree with a lot of your posts, but on this issue I think we'll have to part ways.

As I said, I'm a relationship girl, but I can't find fault in a girl that has the odd ONS that looks after herself.

You know something, as a gender we're hard on ourselves, let alone what some hypocritical males throw at the female species.

(Please men reading this, I don't mean you all - just the arses of the gender) Men can bed hop all they want and get a clap of congratulations on the back for each of their conquests. If women have an ONS most are killing themselves over it before the men get at it..

Just be kinder to our own gender. We're not robots. We're human. We seek human contact that somehow translates as a bad thing to some women. We're our own worst enemies at times.

neuro-praxis

chatterpillar wrote: »

I think it's a good idea for a thread, and a valid discussion.

I think perhaps the tone of your message is a little judgemental though. E.g. "picking up randomers and having sex with them" ... it implies that the woman goes out on the hunt with the intention of bringing some random guy home.

Ok. Then allow me to reassure you that you are hearing judgement where there is none felt or intended. I would be quite happy to change my terms to yours; no problem with that whatsoever.

I wasn't putting any moral content into the expression "picking up randomers and having sex with them". I wasn't suggesting it was sleazy: I was suggesting it was sex with a random person previously unknown to them.

Interestingly though - you do seem to put a moral content into classifications of one night stands.

Whereas, in reality (in my friends' experiences), they meet a stranger who they get on great with, really click with, and it goes from there. It's not a sleazy case of "picking up" a randomer, it's a case of meeting somebody that they actually like, and getting to know each other very quickly.

I have no interest in whether or not someone clicks with and gets to know really quickly the person they have a ONS with. A ONS does not need to be justified, which ironically is what you seem to be at pains to do...and which you continue when you make your next point about one night stands being something someone might have once done but which does not define them.

I have no interest in the morality of ONS or not. I am discussing the risk involved: why is this difficult to grasp? I am talking about the physical and emotional safety of women here - not the protection of some idea of their purity.

Being quite blunt, there are some who would judge a woman who openly admitted to having one night stands. I'm not saying this is right - it's not.

And yet - you need to put qualifiers on what's an acceptable ONS and what is a sleazy one. I hope you are seeing the irony.

But, as I mentioned, Boards is really not all that anonymous. If a woman was posting on that thread, and was aware that friends/family/colleagues may be reading her posts, I can see why they might not want to admit to one night stands.

Fair point indeed - I do not discuss my private sex life with everyone.

Where did I ever say "most"?! I was only giving a couple of reasons why some of the posts on the other thread might not have been entirely accurate.

Point taken.

Personally I would have no problem in admitting that I'd had a one night stand, if I'd ever had one. I've gone home with men on the first night on more than one occasion - however, this would have been back when I was 18/19, and I definitely would not have been ready for sex on the first night (and luckily I never felt in any way pressurised.) I was in a relationship for most of my twenties, so it wasn't ever an issue for me. If I was single now, I wouldn't go out with the intention of going home with a man - but I could see how it might happen, and I have no problem with admitting that.

That's great, but again, it is not relevant to the question of risk, which is the only thing I am trying (and not succeeding very well) at getting at.

I'm curious about this bit. Is it because another woman is likely to be physically closer in size to you, and therefore will have less of an advantage in that respect? Or is there another reason?

(I don't disagree with you on this point, by the way - just curious!)

No - rightly or wrongly I would consider women to be less sexually violent than men, and less violent in general. Perhaps this unfair? The statistics suggest that most sexually violent crimes are committed by men. As such, I imagine that gay women experience less sexual violence within their community than within the hetero community. I could be completely wrong on that: I don't have any statistics. I imagine therefore that it would be safer to go home with a woman you have just met than a man. Again - I have no real reason to believe this other than statistics about male sexual violence.

neuro-praxis

Abi wrote: »

I really don't think that she was, I was actually thinking reading the post myself how 'cut and dry' you seem to see things. It just doesn't work that way.

I just think she picked out a point and you're taking offence given the wording you've used, for no reason. There is no harm in challenging a view NP, nor is it an offence to have a view other than yours without having the intent of personally attacking yours.

Again, no need. There are plenty of women who do not make a habit of ONS's, but give it some wiggle room. This wiggle room I mean is the gap there between were women don't ordinarily sleep with random men, but there may be a blip somewhere but they are always ready and responsible by carrying a condom. I don't see how you could fault them, unless one is to judge ONS's in general.

I suspect she may be like myself, I wouldn't judge a woman who doesn't make a habit of it, but fine with it so long as she is being careful.

I'm sorry, but given your whole post, you're the only one being patronizing and judgemental. I've often read, and agree with a lot of your posts, but on this issue I think we'll have to part ways.

As I said, I'm a relationship girl, but I can't find fault in a girl that has the odd ONS that looks after herself.

You know something, as a gender we're hard on ourselves, let alone what some hypocritical males throw at the female species.

(Please men reading this, I don't mean you all - just the arses of the gender) Men can bed hop all they want and get a clap of congratulations on the back for each of their conquests. If women have an ONS most are killing themselves over it before the men get at it..

Just be kinder to our own gender. We're not robots. We're human. We seek human contact that somehow translates as a bad thing to some women. We're our own worst enemies at times.

Wow.

You never once addressed the issue of risk. You just outlined what is and isn't acceptable in terms of sexual mores.

I couldn't give a monkey who has sex with who. I am only raising the fairly indisputable point that sex with absolute strangers has got to come with a risk. You seem to be arguing with points I have never made.

This is truly fascinating...

Abi

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Wow.

You never once addressed the issue of risk. You just outlined what is and isn't acceptable in terms of sexual mores.

You seem to be saying I don't know what the risks are? how strange.

I couldn't give a monkey who has sex with who.

Who said you did or should?

I am only raising the fairly indisputable point that sex with absolute strangers has got to come with a risk.

I mean this with absolute respect to you, but to use a common saying..

"No shít Sherlock".

This is truly fascinating...

Again with the patronizing. Try not to do that, it's unlikely to end well.

Jogathon

I've had a few - never felt threatened and in fact have been treated very nicely by all. So, risk, yes it's possible, but not in my experience.

The Big Red Button

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I wasn't putting any moral content into the expression "picking up randomers and having sex with them". I wasn't suggesting it was sleazy: I was suggesting it was sex with a random person previously unknown to them.

Interestingly though - you do seem to put a moral content into classifications of one night stands.

I have no interest in whether or not someone clicks with and gets to know really quickly the person they have a ONS with. A ONS does not need to be justified, which ironically is what you seem to be at pains to do...and which you continue when you make your next point about one night stands being something someone might have once done but which does not define them.

No, I am not putting a "moral content" into it.

Sometimes, a person might just want a good hard shag with a randomer - and there's nothing wrong with that, so long as they are aware of the risk and take appropriate precautions.

However I would imagine - based on the experiences of those I know - one night stands generally result from meeting a new person on a night out who you just get on really, really well with.

Which is why I would expect that your reference to "picking up randomers" might not sit well with a lot of people who have/have had one night stands. As that's generally (as far as I'm aware) not how it happens.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I have no interest in the morality of ONS or not. I am discussing the risk involved: why is this difficult to grasp? I am talking about the physical and emotional safety of women here - not the protection of some idea of their purity.

Yes, but ... if a woman is going home with a man, with the intention of having a one night stand with him ... then, unless he's a psychopath (which, statistically, is unlikely), there's not much that could really go wrong, as long as they're both mature responsible adults ...?

I'm not talking about cases where the woman is drunk/changes her mind halfway through/whatever. I'm talking about a sober responsible woman who knows what she's at.

Yes of course there's a risk there. But sure you could be attacked and raped anywhere at any time.

As I mentioned, your ability to judge a person's character really does come into it a lot.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

And yet - you need to put qualifiers on what's an acceptable ONS and what is a sleazy one. I hope you are seeing the irony.

It's not up to me to determine what's "acceptable" for other people, and what isn't.

You asked me to explain why your opening post comes across the way it did; I attempted to do so.

It would be nice if this could be a discussion and not an argument where you are trying to score points. I think I made it pretty clear in my previous posts that I don't believe that there is anything inherently wrong or sleazy about one night stands.

neuro-praxis

Abi wrote: »

You seem to be saying I don't know what the risks are? how strange.

Please Abi, don't tell me what I seem to be saying. I said you didn't address the question of risk, which is the point of the thread. I didn't say you didn't know what the risks were.

Who said you did or should?

This thread is awash with posts that justify the conditions for women having one night stands. You said yourself you are ok with it if the woman doesn't make a habit of it. What business is it of anybody's if a woman makes a habit of it? My only concern is not the frequency, or the connection she feels, or anything other than safety.

I mean this with absolute respect to you, but to use a common saying..

"No shít Sherlock".

Yes, the respect is oozing. If everyone accepts that sex with strangers is risky, then why are people suggesting that to state this is to be patronizing and judgemental? I don't accept this.

Again with the patronizing. Try not to do that, it's unlikely to end well.

I was being serious. I am fascinated by the responses.

I have said:

"Sex with strangers is unsafe."

The responses in general are not, "No, it is safe" or "It is not safe, but it is sometimes worth the risk."

The responses are, "Having one night stands is not morally wrong."

I did not say it was.

And I'm a big enough girl to stand by my points - or to alter them where necessary - without redundant, sarcastic warnings about the language used. If you have a problem with any of my posts you can feel free to report them.

Laneyh

Well there are lots of potential risks involved really but the other party engaged in the ONS is sharing all of those risks too

There's a risk of attack,assault, theft, something happening after the fact.. The person now knows where you live and if you live alone etc.
They could take photos of you unbeknownst to you.

By the same token any of the above could happen with someone you think you know better as well.

I've had 2 one night stands both of which were fine. One was with the brother of an acquaintance so I suppose not totally 'random'
I'd spent quite a bit of time talking to the other guy and he also chatted to my friends ..didn't trigger any alarm bells and was a perfectly nice guy.

If the ONS is off the back of a party / club it'd probably be a good idea to notify your friends of who you're leaving with and that type of thing. It's definitely an additional risk bringing someone home or going to their home. If you're staying somewhere else on holidays or whatever at least staff already know you're there.

I read advice for backpackers before that if they were going to have a ONS they should go to the guys hostel as the hostel would have his passport details.

If you think about what could potentially happen it definitely seems like a bad idea but sometimes things just happen .. As long as you assess it and feel safe I think it's fine

neuro-praxis

chatterpillar wrote: »

No, I am not putting a "moral content" into it.

Sometimes, a person might just want a good hard shag with a randomer - and there's nothing wrong with that, so long as they are aware of the risk and take appropriate precautions.

Ok! I agree, provisionally. What would be the precautions to reduce risk, other than contraceptives?

Which is why I would expect that your reference to "picking up randomers" might not sit well with a lot of people who have/have had one night stands.

Well, I conceded to alter my language to yours. I don't know what more I could do.

Yes, but ... if a woman is going home with a man, with the intention of having a one night stand with him ... then, unless he's a psychopath (which, statistically, is unlikely), there's not much that could really go wrong, as long as they're both mature responsible adults ...?

Again, I agree. The problem is of course that if you do not know someone, then you do not know if they are a mature, responsible adult.

Yes of course there's a risk there. But sure you could be attacked and raped anywhere at any time.

I agree.

It would be nice if this could be a discussion and not an argument where you are trying to score points. I think I made it pretty clear in my previous posts that I don't believe that there is anything inherently wrong or sleazy about one night stands.

I am not attempting to score points. I apologize if that is how it appears. I am attempting to raise a discussion about how women put themselves at considerable risk when they have sex with men they do not know or have no reason to trust, and that this is a good enough reason not to do it.

You can disagree with that central point, without accusing me of judgement. I have applied no judgement value to casual sex whatsoever. My concern is the safety of women.

Wibbs

Ok folks, lets try to keep this discussion as civil as possible and dial back the digs. I appreciate how this can be a contentious topic, but it's a good one too, so let's give it the time and thought it deserves. Thanks.

Piste

Do we know what % of one-night stands end in sexual assault and what % of committed relationships involve sexual assault? Cos until you can be sure that a higher proportion of one-night stands end in sexual assault then it's a massive assertion to claim that a one-night stand is unsafe sex.

RatsInParadise

An interesting thread. You've made me stop and analyse my actions and motivations a little. Safety. Interesting word, and one that used to absolutely dominate almost all of my actions and decisions.

Like a few people here have mentioned, I probably associate my most unsafe practices with my younger days, but into my 20s now and I wouldn't be against one night stands. I think I would trust my judge of character a lot better now - there would need to be a connection on *some* level before I would go home with someone (or bring them home).

I completely accept your point, neuro-praxis that this is fundamentally unsafe. So why do I do it? I've been hurt before and I never want to go through anything even vaguely resembling that experience again - yet I do put myself at exactly that risk. More interestingly - usually when I think about risk involved in one night stands - I think more about STIs and pregnancy.

I think it's a bit of a personal philosophy I've adopted in a way. Life's too short to worry about every little thing that could go wrong. I'll do my best to make sure I feel safe/protected. I've got an IUD for contraception, always use condoms, friends (usually) will know where I am, and it'll be with a person I've had a good connection with - albeit only for a night or a weekend.

Curious that I've never quite factored in the physical safety elements to casual sex. I've definitely been in situations though where it's coming up towards the end of the night and I'm hanging out with someone and will get creeped out that there's something expected of me, or that they think it's going somewhere it's not, or that they might have the best intentions, but will end up making a move on me and I just don't want to be in that situation with the person and will make my excuses (or not) and leave. In these scenarios, I'll agree to feeling far more threatened by males than females. And I think that that does come down to my perceived ability to defend myself if needs be.

But never have I felt physically uncomfortable with someone I have chosen/consented to go home with.

As for regrets... to quote Sinatra.. "regrets, I've had a few. Then again, too few to mention".

The only problems, really have been when we've turned out to have friends in common and it's added a little strain/awkwardness/complexity to previously existing relationships, but by and large, the worst case has been just not particularly enjoyable sex, the best has been just having a great time and connecting with another human on a number of levels

analucija

And after couple of dates you know somebody well enough so it's safe to have sex with them?

I don't think anybody can claim there are no risks but a lot depends on circumstances. And a lot of those circumstances are exactly the same when somebody comes to pick you up for a date or something similar. Unless it's implied that women have to be drunk to have ONSs?

neuro-praxis

Piste wrote: »

Do we know what % of one-night stands end in sexual assault and what % of committed relationships involve sexual assault? Cos until you can be sure that a higher proportion of one-night stands end in sexual assault then it's a massive assertion to claim that a one-night stand is unsafe sex.

Very good point. Going to have a look around for some stats.

RatsInParadise wrote: »

An interesting thread. ...

The only problems, really have been when we've turned out to have friends in common and it's added a little strain/awkwardness/complexity to previously existing relationships, but by and large, the worst case has been just not particularly enjoyable sex, the best has been just having a great time and connecting with another human on a number of levels

Great response, thanks.

Ickle Magoo

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I am attempting to raise a discussion about how women put themselves at considerable risk when they have sex with men they do not know or have no reason to trust

By risk do you mean violence? Or theft? Or sexual assault? I'm just wondering why you specifically targeted one-night-stands out of all the bazillion "risky" things people do? For that reason it appears to me to be more of a bizarre moralistic effort to put people off having one-night-stands under the guise of concern for their safety than anything else...

Besides, any statistics I can find (HERE for instance) suggest the vast majority of rapists are known to their victims - one in five are partners/spouses. Given only 9% are strangers that would imply a woman is actually safer in that respect with a one-night-stand than with someone she knows or lives/works with...

I could be biased tho - having been attacked by a boyfriend and now married to a one-night-stand... :cool:

neuro-praxis

Some stats from the SAVI Report (McGee et al, 2002, The Liffey Press), a 2001 major nationwide survey, which interviewed 3120 adults in depth, and was undertaken on behalf of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre:

7.5 % of Irish women and 1.5 % of Irish men have experienced rape or attempted rape in adulthood. One in five women and one in ten men have experienced sexual assault in adulthood.

74 % of those who experienced rape or sexual assault knew the person who assaulted them. The truth is that most rape and sexual assault takes place within a social or family situation. This often adds to the victim’s confusion and self-blame, where the rape may have followed on from a seemingly normal situation. It also means that the victim has to continue their life in a context where they may have ongoing contact with the perpetrator.

Also, I couldn't find stats about lesbian sexual assault in Ireland, but found some info from the US on http://www.pandys.org/articles/lesbiandomesticviolence.html:

Perhaps surprisingly, statistics have shown that lesbian people experience domestic violence at a very similar rate to that of heterosexual women (Waldner-Haygrud, 1997; AVP, 1992). It has been estimated that between 17-45% of lesbians have been the victim of at least one act of violence perpetrated by a female partner (Burke et al, 1999; Lie et al, 1991), and that 30% of lesbians have reported sexual assault / rape by another woman (Renzetti, 1992). Considering the lack of discussion that takes place regarding lesbian domestic violence and sexual assault, I find these figures staggering.

Staggering is not the word!

Abi

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I said you didn't address the question of risk, which is the point of the thread. I didn't say you didn't know what the risks were.[/B]

What would you like me to say about it exactly? I think you're asking me make a similar statement that rain is wet here.

This thread is awash with posts that justify the conditions for women having one night stands. You said yourself you are ok with it if the woman doesn't make a habit of it. What business is it of anybody's if a woman makes a habit of it? My only concern is not the frequency, or the connection she feels, or anything other than safety.

I'm quite agreeable with you in this sense. But may I ask, are you in favour of abstinence until you find the right suitor, or where do you draw the line?

Yes, the respect is oozing.

Please don't be sarcastic, I've said to you in my previous post, I like you as a poster, and I've always liked your posts.

If everyone accepts that sex with strangers is risky, then why are people suggesting that to state this is to be patronizing and judgemental? I don't accept this.

It is if you are to excess. You're gradually increasing your odds of some kind of infection. My thinking is, don't sleep around. Yours seems to be just don't sleep with anyone. Or is it post marriage?

I'm being honest here, I don't understand where the line is here. May I just ask you, if not too personal a question (bear in mind you've asked women here a personal question), when do you feel it is acceptable to sleep with a man?



I just need to understand your point of view better.

If you have a problem with any of my posts you can feel free to report them.

You're being defensive again. I really don't find a problem with your posts. I merely said they're a bit judgemental etc., it's in no way upsetting. It's only a discussion.

Or at least I thought so? o_0

neuro-praxis

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

By risk do you mean violence? Or theft? Or sexual assault? I'm just wondering why you specifically targeted one-night-stands out of all the bazillion "risky" things people do?

I mean violence and sexual assault. What are the bazillion "risky" things that people do?

I think it is quite fair on a forum that discusses amongst other subjects the sexual well-being of women to raise the question of risk in one night stands.

For that reason it appears to me to be more of a bizarre moralistic effort to put people off having one-night-stands under the guise of concern for their safety than anything else...

You may believe this, but you are quite simply wrong. There is nothing bizarre or moralistic in the conviction that women ought to safeguard themselves in relation to sexual partners. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. I have not been disingenuous in any of my posts here. I have no interest in the morality of one night stands. I am getting quite tired of repeating this.

Besides, any statistics I can find (HERE for instance) suggest the vast majority of rapists are known to their victims - one in five are partners/spouses. Given only 9% are strangers that would imply a woman is actually safer in that respect with a one-night-stand than with someone she knows or lives/works with...

I could be biased tho - having been attacked by a boyfriend and now married to a one-night-stand... :cool:

I quoted similar statistics from the Irish Rape Crisis Centre report, actually. No need to use statistics as a weapon against me as only a few posts back I was grateful to Piste for raising the issue and went looking for relevant stats to add to the conversation.

Edit: It is also worth noting that your interpretation of the statistics is insubstantial as there are several mitigating factors that need to defined before any such conclusion could be drawn - for example, what constitutes a stranger. Also it needs to be taken into account the numbers of sexual encounters involved. Once can't read 20% versus 9% flat off the page without understanding the context assumed by the survey. Your interpretation may be correct but it would need to be justified.

Yes, you could be biased. As indeed we all are. I have in fact attempted to discuss this subject however without bias, which is proving very difficult.

neuro-praxis

Abi wrote: »

I'm quite agreeable with you in this sense. But may I ask, are you in favour of abstinence until you find the right suitor, or where do you draw the line?

No. I am proposing that the sexual safety of women is paramount, and it is worth considering that sex with strangers could end badly. I think I have been quite clear about this. I have also been quite clear that the issue is not with casual sex.

Please don't be sarcastic, I've said to you in my previous post, I like you as a poster, and I've always liked your posts.

I have remained polite despite many digs. I respectfully disagree that you were being respectful when you said, "No **** sherlock."

It is if you are to excess. You're gradually increasing your odds of some kind of infection. My thinking is, don't sleep around. Yours seems to be just don't sleep with anyone. Or is it post marriage?

Again, simply a gross misrepresentation of my points. Can you highlight anything at all where I have suggested abstinence until marriage is desirable? I could highlight ten things I've written that demonstrate that I propose no moral difficulty with casual sex.

I'm being honest here, I don't understand where the line is here. May I just ask you, if not too personal a question (bear in mind you've asked women here a personal question), when do you feel it is acceptable to sleep with a man?

Quite simply when it seems right to those involved.

You're being defensive again. I really don't find a problem with your posts. I merely said they're a bit judgemental etc., it's in no way upsetting. It's only a discussion.

Or at least I thought so? o_0

Abi, you saying your comments aren't barbed doesn't make them not so. I have a limited tolerance for trolling responses to serious questions, and I am getting there. If I was placing a moral judgement on one night stands, I would gladly concede your point. I don't have any difficulty with taking the views of others on board. You will find that the points on which I agree with adversary posters in this thread dramatically outnumber those where I highlight disagreement. Such good grace unfortunately has not been extended to me in the simple assertion that there is a risk to the personal and sexual safety of women when they embark on sexual encounters with strangers. It is good when this risk does not materialize, and potentially devastating when it does. To me, the risk appears entirely unnecessary. That this position could be seen as anything other than pro-women and pro-safe-sex is pretty surprising to me tbh.

And now...for bed.

Ickle Magoo

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I mean violence and sexual assault. What are the bazillion "risky" things that people do?

Like, getting in a car with people they don't know, walking home with people they don't know, snogging somebody they don't know, getting separated from their friends with someone they don't know - hell, meeting someone off the internet or going on a date holds "risk"...

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I think it is quite fair on a forum that discusses amongst other subjects the sexual well-being of women to raise the question of risk in one night stands.

Why just one-night-stands tho? Is sleeping together on the second date safer? It's just the way you've honed in on one-night-stands, without initially providing any statistics and making false assumptions about lesbian relationships - you'll forgive me if I'm dubious your intention was to raise a well researched topic for general discussion...

neuro-praxis wrote: »

You may believe this, but you are quite simply wrong. There is nothing bizarre or moralistic in the conviction that women ought to safeguard themselves in relation to sexual partners. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. I have not been disingenuous in any of my posts here. I have no interest in the morality of one night stands. I am getting quite tired of repeating this.

I think I've covered much of that above - the bottom line is your supposition was that women who don't know their partner are at greater risk - yet the statistics show women are more at risk from those they do know...personally, I find that 1-in-5 rapes perpetrated by a spouse/partner far more worrying and worthy of discussion than suppositions over one-night-stands.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I quoted that just as you did, actually. No need to use statistics as a weapon against me as only a few posts back I was grateful to Piste for raising the issue and went looking for relevant stats to add to the conversation.

Yes, you could be biased. As indeed we all are. I have in fact attempted to discuss this subject however without bias, which is proving very difficult.

A weapon? While you may not be aware of it - it's your choice of language and that kind of hysterical reaction to rational analysis that screams ulterior motive. When I posted, you hadn't given any statistics - it was pure conjecture...

I'm not going to lie, I've had a few one night stands and see no problem with them. Yes, they are essentially a risk, but there's a risk associated with most things in life. I have no problem with casual sex, see nothing wrong with it and have no problem with people who aren't interested in it - however, I dislike when people judge me for it, which does happen sometimes.

Babybuff

wrt to the lesbian thing, and I don't speak for all lesbians but my fears wouldn't be about violence or sexual assault, there are other things which would concern me, mostly going back and finding a man there. That would be bad. (and stds)
I'm not into violence, I'm fairly laid back but I'm probably less afraid of being able to handle a woman than a man if she did get violent. (I have handled the odd aggressive woman well in the past) But for me personally, I try to take care of the people I'm with and if I suspect that's not a mutual understanding then I'm not going anywhere with them in the first place.

PrincessLola

Hmm.. if I wanted sex badly enough I probably would go home with a strange guy. Am I too trusting on this?

I mean if rape or something were to happen I would probably get victim-blamed because I chose to go home with him..

Dolbert

One of the reasons I have never had a ONS is because I couldn’t imagine being so vulnerable with someone I barely knew. It would just go against my every self-preservation instinct. There are other reasons why it didn’t appeal to me of course but personal safety was always up there as a factor. I couldn’t care less if people think I’m paranoid because of this, it’s just something I’ve never been comfortable with. I think people are reading intent that wasn’t there into the OP.

ShiftStorm

Dolorous wrote: »

One of the reasons I have never had a ONS is because I couldn’t imagine being so vulnerable with someone I barely knew. It would just go against my every self-preservation instinct. There are other reasons why it didn’t appeal to me of course but personal safety was always up there as a factor. I couldn’t care less if people think I’m paranoid because of this, it’s just something I’ve never been comfortable with. I think people are reading intent that wasn’t there into the OP.

What Dolorous said!

Princess Peach

I know a girl who brought a stranger home one night. Woke up the next morning and laptop and purse were gone along with himself.

She had a hard time explaining that one to her parents :pac:

The Big Red Button

Princess Peach wrote: »

I know a girl who brought a stranger home one night. Woke up the next morning and laptop and purse were gone along with himself.

She had a hard time explaining that one to her parents :pac:

You know, in a funny way, if I were to go home with a stranger, I'd far rather go to his place than mine! You'd sort of expect it would be the other way round, wouldn't you?

Giselle

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

By risk do you mean violence? Or theft? Or sexual assault? I'm just wondering why you specifically targeted one-night-stands out of all the bazillion "risky" things people do? For that reason it appears to me to be more of a bizarre moralistic effort to put people off having one-night-stands under the guise of concern for their safety than anything else...

I think its a reasonable topic, and I don't see why bringing it up constitutes judgment or agenda in and of itself; I think this is as worthy of discussion as say, using a carpark alone at night, which has its own possible dangers. Its just another area of personal safety with the added aspect of sexual vulnerability.

I think this thread is becoming polarised for no good reason, and one thing that I've noticed is that there seems to be an expectation of judgement, even when the OP has repeatedly stated that she is making no moral judgement on ONSs and is only interested in the safety aspect, and other posters have remained neutral.

Its a bit odd that its coming across as a taboo subject to even discuss, but something like watching out for one's safety while driving wouldn't be questioned as a thread topic. Perhaps that's judgement too.

I've often read NP's posts and have liked her even-handedness and how she expresses herself, even when I haven't agreed with her, I've understood her to be an open and compassionate person. I don't think she would start a thread with the intention of pushing her views and disguising them as concern.

Princess Peach

chatterpillar wrote: »

You know, in a funny way, if I were to go home with a stranger, I'd far rather go to his place than mine! You'd sort of expect it would be the other way round, wouldn't you?

I always prefer staying in my own house cause my stuff is there. But yeah thinking of it now if things don't turn out well I would prefer my stuff to be safe and the guy not to know where I live!

Also, never had a one night stand, but I assume sometimes there's awkwardness getting him to leave when you want to end things early :pac:

analucija

Dolorous wrote: »

I think people are reading intent that wasn’t there into the OP.

We might or the tone of her posts was judgmental enough that quite a few of us read "the intent that wasn't there" in the OP. I wonder what the reaction would be if somebody started the thread "I'd never wear a low cut top or a short skirt because it makes you a magnet for sexual predators." Or maybe a man starting a thread "I'd never have a ONS because some girl could have sex with me just to get pregnant and then demand maintenance of me". There are plenty of risks involved in ONSs but there can be plenty of risk involved in just dating somebody and thinking you know somebody well...

I still don't think ONSs I had were particularly risky. Ironically I did act once as a complete idiot and did something that was extremely unsafe. It turned out to be the risk well worth taking and the only man I ever loved and I can't imagine life without him. I wouldn't advise anybody to do what I did though.

The Big Red Button

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Ok! I agree, provisionally. What would be the precautions to reduce risk, other than contraceptives?

OK. Thinking only of personal safety.

If I was on a night out, if I got too drunk, I'd be going home, alone, to my own place, not with a man. Basically I know my limits. There is no way that I'd get in a situation where I'd go home with someone else (to my own place, or to some one else's) while in a state where I was too drunk to make decisions. (Obviously, date rape drugs etc is a whole different situation.)

If I met a guy on a night out, presumably, my friends would be there too. If he was a complete stranger, who none of us knew at all, I'd depend on my friends' judgement of him as well as my own. By this I mean, if a friend took me aside and said that, for whatever reason, they didn't want me to go home with the guy, I would respect their opinion and not do it. If I liked him that much, we could always swap numbers etc and meet up again.

I do put a lot of faith in my own judgement of character, and I go with my instincts. I wouldn't be afraid to leave at any time I felt uncomfortable with a situation.

If I was going home with someone else, I would like to think that I'd let a friend know where I was going. As I said previously, I've never been in that situation with a complete stranger. But, you know, if I was happy to get in a taxi and go home with a guy - then I'd be comfortable enough with him to ask him for his address so that I could give it to a friend.

Any time I ever go out with friends, we are always texting the following morning. I know that, if my friends hadn't heard back from me by midday, they would be extremely concerned. I know that them being concerned isn't much use if I'm lying dead in an alleyway, but still, it's good to know!

I've been attacked before (not sexually) and was not afraid to fight back. I mightn't be big, or strong, but I'm fully willing to do anything it would take to defend myself. Seriously, I would be in no way squeamish about gouging out a man's eyeballs in order to protect myself. Let alone what I'd do to his more sensitive parts! I know from experience that I'm not going to freeze in such a situation.

At the end of the day, it's very much a case of balancing risk against reward. When it comes down to it, I believe that I take more of a risk getting behind the wheel of my car for my regular drive home across the country, than I would if I were to go home with a man that I liked and trusted enough that I was willing to go home with him, with the intention of having sex.

Giselle wrote: »

one thing that I've noticed is that there seems to be an expectation of judgement, even when the OP has repeatedly stated that she is making no moral judgement on ONSs and is only interested in the safety aspect, and other posters have remained neutral.

But, the thing is, this isn't a focus group being run by the OP.

It's a discussion forum. Raise a topic, and posters will go off on tangents, and offer their own opinions. They mightn't be opinions that the OP is interested in, but they are all relevant, and might be of interest to other users of the forum - if not to the OP.