False Advertisement?

jimmydkid

Hi guys, iv bought a ford focus from a main ford dealer that was advertised with heated seats, i test drove the car and after much haggling we agreed on a price, A big part of the cars selling point was its extras which the sales guy kept pushing including the heated seats but when i picked it up from garage and asked him to show me where the button was for the heated seats he said they were not in it. i told him i wasn't happy and that it was a big problem that it was advertised but not in car, he said he will contact me on Monday after he checks the spec with ford he seemed as surprised as me. Should i return the car and ask for my money back or can heated seats be installed in the car or is there any other options?

shawnee

Had a salesman once who got confused with heated seats and electric seats , perhaps your guy made the same mistake but if he sold it with heated seats and they are not in it, you have a case , is it on any advertising document

Senna

1. Return it and ask for full refund.
2. Return it and ask for the model and spec you ordered.
3. Get a discount and keep car.

I'd go with #2, or it is possible to retrofit heated seats and its not a big job for a Ford garage to do, it would just require new seats being ordered, wiring for the buttons is probably all still there.

carbon nanotube

jimmydkid wrote: »

Hi guys, iv bought a ford focus from a main ford dealer that was advertised with heated seats, i test drove the car and after much haggling we agreed on a price, A big part of the cars selling point was its extras which the sales guy kept pushing including the heated seats but when i picked it up from garage and asked him to show me where the button was for the heated seats he said they were not in it. i told him i wasn't happy and that it was a big problem that it was advertised but not in car, he said he will contact me on Monday after he checks the spec with ford he seemed as surprised as me. Should i return the car and ask for my money back or can heated seats be installed in the car or is there any other options?

what focus got heated seats....

unless its a new ish.. titanium spec.?

dar83

Or a MkII ST3 spec.

jimmydkid

shawnee wrote: »

Had a salesman once who got confused with heated seats and electric seats , perhaps your guy made the same mistake but if he sold it with heated seats and they are not in it, you have a case , is it on any advertising document

No it doesnt have electric seats, i printed off the carzone ad and the one on therr own website and they both say heated seats

jimmydkid

Senna wrote: »

1. Return it and ask for full refund.
2. Return it and ask for the model and spec you ordered.
3. Get a discount and keep car.

I'd go with #2, or it is possible to retrofit heated seats and its not a big job for a Ford garage to do, it would just require new seats being ordered, wiring for the buttons is probably all still there.

Thanks senna, i like the car so number 2 or 3 sound good to me, i just hope the dealers see it that way and dont drag the ass out of it

Henry Ford III

jimmydkid wrote: »

No it doesnt have electric seats, i printed off the carzone ad and the one on therr own website and they both say heated seats

Ads meant nowt - in contract law they are an "invitation to treat" as opposed to an "offer to sell" iirc. Mistakes can and do happen.

Why didn't you check the car over fully before buying it?

jimmydkid

carbon nanotube wrote: »

what focus got heated seats....

unless its a new ish.. titanium spec.?

yep its a new model 11 reg, there are a couple on web that have heated seats, well according to ads they have

jimmydkid

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ads meant nowt - in contract law they are an "invitation to treat" as opposed to an "offer to sell" iirc. Mistakes can and do happen.

Why didn't you check the car over fully before buying it?

To be honest i never had a car with heated seats before so when i test drove it i just presumed they were in it, It was only when i was on forecourt and asked how they worked the problem occurred. I kind of thought by going to a main ford dealer things would be as advertised

bazz26

I doubt very much they will fit heated seats for you unless you are willing to pay for them. If you don't want to hand back the car then I don't see what other options you have now that you have already bought the car. The best I think you can do is push for a free service because of the mix up.

AltAccount

Am I correct in understanding that you noticed or were told at the vehicle handover that there were no heated seats, but you took delivery of the car anyway?

jimmydkid

AltAccount wrote: »

Am I correct in understanding that you noticed or were told at the vehicle handover that there were no heated seats, but you took delivery of the car anyway?

as i was sitting into car at the forecourt the salesman said he would go thru the workings of the car, when i asked him about the seats he spent about five mins lokking for the heated seat button and then said he didnt think it had heated seats. I had already paid for it by that stage

mathepac

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ads meant nowt - in contract law they are an "invitation to treat" as opposed to an "offer to sell" iirc. Mistakes can and do happen. ...

Nonsense. Check the http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/index.html which states that goods must be "as described" in advertising materials (well done OP for saving web ads) or in conversation with the salesman.

Please, please check consumer law before dismissing or commenting on it.

Henry Ford III

mathepac wrote: »

Nonsense. Check the http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/index.html which states that goods must be "as described" in advertising materials (well done OP for saving web ads) or in conversation with the salesman.

Please, please check consumer law before dismissing or commenting on it.

Not interested with arguing with you, but notwithstanding what your link says, basics of contract law still apply.

Eric Cartman

heated seats can be retrofitted, even the factory model kits with the propper switches. OP , chances are the garage will have the heated seats fitted if you fuss about it enough , Look through the vehicle owners handbook and find out where the heated seat switches are supposed to go and what they look like. Point out to the garage that youd like the heated seats fitted , but you definitely want the factory kit with those switches, not some aftermarket kit that leaves holes cut in your dash.

those are the factory heated seat switches in the 2012 model

thats what out of place horrible aftermarket switches look like

AltAccount

jimmydkid wrote: »

as i was sitting into car at the forecourt the salesman said he would go thru the workings of the car, when i asked him about the seats he spent about five mins lokking for the heated seat button and then said he didnt think it had heated seats. I had already paid for it by that stage

Sounds like some consideration or retrofit seats are your only options tbh. Returning the car will be very difficult at this stage.

jimmydkid

Eric Cartman wrote: »

heated seats can be retrofitted, even the factory model kits with the propper switches. OP , chances are the garage will have the heated seats fitted if you fuss about it enough , Look through the vehicle owners handbook and find out where the heated seat switches are supposed to go and what they look like. Point out to the garage that youd like the heated seats fitted , but you definitely want the factory kit with those switches, not some aftermarket kit that leaves holes cut in your dash.

those are the factory heated seat switches in the 2012 model

thats what out of place horrible aftermarket switches look like

Thanks Eric, i looked at another car similar to mine and the buttons are exactly as your first picture

jimmydkid

AltAccount wrote: »

Sounds like some consideration or retrofit seats are your only options tbh. Returning the car will be very difficult at this stage.

Id be delighted if they fitted the seats, i dont want to seem like an ass of a customer its just the sales guy made such a fuss about them when he was trying to sell me the car, so it really annoyed me when they are not in it

jimmydkid

mathepac wrote: »

Nonsense. Check the http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/index.html which states that goods must be "as described" in advertising materials (well done OP for saving web ads) or in conversation with the salesman.

Please, please check consumer law before dismissing or commenting on it.

Thanks for that usefull link mathepac, hopefully i will get some news on it tomorrow

mathepac

jimmydkid wrote: »

Thanks for that usefull link mathepac, hopefully i will get some news on it tomorrow

No Problem. Some "experts" around these parts think Irish consumer law is irrelevant, but it's actually a very powerful piece of consumer oriented legislation. I just wish more people used it instead of relying on mis-information on the internet and from car dealers (including the SIMI contract).

Your other friends are - http://www.nca.ie/your-rights especially section 5 - http://www.nca.ie/index.jsp?p=133&n=177&a=349

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Not interested with arguing with you, but notwithstanding what your link says, basics of contract law still apply.

More nonsense. I'm glad you're not interested in arguing because Section 5 above (read it carefully) proves there is nothing to argue with me about because I am right..

Anan1

How old is the car? Unless there's a kit, for the dealer to retrofit heated seats using Ford parts will not be cheap.

dar83

It's an 11 plate from the OPs previous posts.

The retrofit parts might not be cheap, but if the car has the leather interior already, there's a good chance the seats already have the elements in them and the only thing lacking are the switches in the centre console.

OP: Is the interior you have part leather or cloth?

Actually from looking at the price list and model info etc... the heated seats are an option for every spec of the new Focus. Costs €357 as well as an option. So I would imagine that the elements and everything needed is pretty much in every model as is and you're paying for them to be "activated" as such. €357 for entirely different front seats doesn't sound dear enough for Ford. :P

Anan1

dar83 wrote: »

if the car has the leather interior already, there's a good chance the seats already have the elements in them and the only thing lacking are the switches in the centre console.

That would make it much cheaper, but TBH i'd be surprised if it were the case.

dar83

Yeah, you might think that alright, but I find it hard to believe Ford would only charge €357 for two completely different front seats that had the elements in them, especially if they were the "part leather" ones, as then they would have to make the rear seats the Part leather trim as well. If it is the case, then it may be a Ford option "bargain" for once. :P

I wonder do they offer heated seats in the fully cloth variety these days? I don;t think they did before, did they?

Anan1

Here's hoping i'm wrong! If they do all have the elements then i'd say the owners clubs would know - might be a good place to start..

sean1141

I reckon the price is for the elements to be fitted in the seat when being put together plus the switches. The wiring is most likely there for them. I know it is in my mondeo anyway

dar83

The looms always have everything attached to them alright. Switching seats is literally a bolts out, remove seat, bolts in, replace loom and you're good to go.

The loom behind the dash will even have the heated seat switch connections attached also, just taped to the other connections that are actually in use with the options you have.

jimmydkid

dar83 wrote: »

It's an 11 plate from the OPs previous posts.

The retrofit parts might not be cheap, but if the car has the leather interior already, there's a good chance the seats already have the elements in them and the only thing lacking are the switches in the centre console.

OP: Is the interior you have part leather or cloth?

Actually from looking at the price list and model info etc... the heated seats are an option for every spec of the new Focus. Costs €357 as well as an option. So I would imagine that the elements and everything needed is pretty much in every model as is and you're paying for them to be "activated" as such. €357 for entirely different front seats doesn't sound dear enough for Ford. :P

Hi Dar, the seats are fully cloth, the main dealer said it is too expensive to fit heated seats so he has offered fitting rear parking sensors or a free service instead.

Anan1

jimmydkid wrote: »

Hi Dar, the seats are fully cloth, the main dealer said it is too expensive to fit heated seats so he has offered fitting rear parking sensors or a free service instead.

Not nearly good enough, i'd say. Heated seats are a really nice thing to have. Tell him you want to return the car, see what his best offer is in terms of money back, and make your decision then.

keithclancy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ads meant nowt - in contract law they are an "invitation to treat" as opposed to an "offer to sell" iirc. Mistakes can and do happen.

Why didn't you check the car over fully before buying it?

Your half right,

Invitation to Treat is only up until cash is handed over.
Once cash is handed over its a contract.

If the above mentioned contract was based on a piece of information being untrue (Heated Seats), then thats false advertising.

Your right though, if the OP didn't hand over money he wouldn't have a leg to stand on, because it would only be an 'Invitation to treat'

Similarly if the car was priced at 100 euro instead of 10000 euro, the OP couldn't walk in and demand to buy it at that price because its only an 'Invitation to Treat'

The AD only provides proof of what the Garage advertised. In itself its worth nothing, but when combined with the OPs word against the Garage it backs the OP up.

Jimdagym

jimmydkid wrote: »

Hi Dar, the seats are fully cloth, the main dealer said it is too expensive to fit heated seats so he has offered fitting rear parking sensors or a free service instead.

Not a fecking chance. No way should that easily. Sure they could advertise every car with imaginary extra's and just throw in a service when someone susses it.Tell them you want your money back immidiately and see what they come up with.

Be prepared to go through with it too.

jimmydkid

Anan1 wrote: »

Not nearly good enough, i'd say. Heated seats are a really nice thing to have. Tell him you want to return the car, see what his best offer is in terms of money back, and make your decision then.

I had made an appointment for tomorrow with garage to return car and get full refund,Then phone rang this evening and now his offering full service and colour coded rear parking sensors

Jimdagym

jimmydkid wrote: »

I had made an appointment for tomorrow with garage to return car and get full refund,Then phone rang this evening and now his offering full service and colour coded rear parking sensors

Did you accept that?

jimmydkid

Jimdagym wrote: »

Did you accept that?

No, i said id think about it

Anan1

jimmydkid wrote: »

I had made an appointment for tomorrow with garage to return car and get full refund,Then phone rang this evening and now his offering full service and colour coded rear parking sensors

You want cash, rather than baubles. Find out how much money he will give you to keep the car.

lifer_sean

I don't know about the cost of Focus seats, but in general, interior trim is very very expensive. Going back a few years ago, a new seat for an Avensis was around 1000 euro !

If you asked me to guess, I'd have estimated 1500 euro worth of parts to put in heated seats. Not surprised dealer is not prepared to do this. I'd reckon your options are to hand back the car or take whatever deal they give you, ie service and parking sensors or whatever. If I were the dealer I'd take the car back before I'd change the seats.

Anan1

lifer_sean wrote: »

I don't know about the cost of Focus seats, but in general, interior trim is very very expensive. Going back a few years ago, a new seat for an Avensis was around 1000 euro !

If you asked me to guess, I'd have estimated 1500 euro worth of parts to put in heated seats. Not surprised dealer is not prepared to do this. I'd reckon your options are to hand back the car or take whatever deal they give you, ie service and parking sensors or whatever. If I were the dealer I'd take the car back before I'd change the seats.

+1. Depending on what car it is, i'd be looking for €500 plus to keep it.

Eric Cartman

OP id hold out for refund or seats, its an expensive job to do and its obvious the dealer doesnt want to. Theyd rather fob you off with a basic service + parking sensors (worth about 150 in total).

retrofitting the seats will probably be 7-800 at most, and at build time it was probably a 350 euro option , so the dealer is just trying to fob you off and make 200 quid instead of paying the 550 or so his mistake should cost.

even if you push it Id say theyll do the seats rather than take the car back, but I wouldnt settle for a cheap fob off here

AltAccount

I don't see how people are saying the OP will get a refund for this (unless you just mean a couple of quid refunded. I don't see how you could hand the car back after this.

The issue was found at handover. Rater than returning the car and taking back their draft, the OP allowed them to cash the draft, change the ownership, and was happy to dryive away and put mileage and "dirt on the car.
Taking that car back, recleaning/reprepping, changing the ownership back (probably adding another owner to the car, etc. is going to be a large hurdle imho.

OP, you shouldn't have taken the car unless you were happy with a compromise, or unless you had a cast iron agreement with the salesperson that the car would be brought up to spec FOC.
If you took it away on a wishy-washy promise of "ah, we'll sort something out", then more fool you...

jimmydkid

AltAccount wrote: »

I don't see how people are saying the OP will get a refund for this (unless you just mean a couple of quid refunded. I don't see how you could hand the car back after this.

The issue was found at handover. Rater than returning the car and taking back their draft, the OP allowed them to cash the draft, change the ownership, and was happy to dryive away and put mileage and "dirt on the car.
Taking that car back, recleaning/reprepping, changing the ownership back (probably adding another owner to the car, etc. is going to be a large hurdle imho.

OP, you shouldn't have taken the car unless you were happy with a compromise, or unless you had a cast iron agreement with the salesperson that the car would be brought up to spec FOC.
If you took it away on a wishy-washy promise of "ah, we'll sort something out", then more fool you...

I have been offerd a full refund, they have admitted it was there mistake, it was the general manager of the garage idea for me to take the car.

AltAccount

You're very lucky IMHO. They must really value your business!

jimmydkid

Thanks a million for all the helpful and positive comments iv taken a shine to the car so im going to take the garages offer of parking sensor and service. Thanks again guys

jimmydkid

AltAccount wrote: »

You're very lucky IMHO. They must really value your business!

No i think it had something to do with consumer rights

Eric Cartman

jimmydkid wrote: »

No i think it had something to do with consumer rights

Od still push to have the heated seats retrofitted, 7-800 euro is not much out of a garages pocket and is a nice extra to have

Anan1

jimmydkid wrote: »

Thanks a million for all the helpful and positive comments iv taken a shine to the car so im going to take the garages offer of parking sensor and service. Thanks again guys

I think you're being rolled over but, hey, it's your money.

MuppetCheck

jimmydkid wrote: »

Thanks a million for all the helpful and positive comments iv taken a shine to the car so im going to take the garages offer of parking sensor and service. Thanks again guys

Worth asking for heated seats still and see what they say. Far more preferable than a refund to them but at the same time a nice car to have in stock. There is a strong market for them and depending on colour/spec a small waiting list for a new one.

Drummerboy08

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Od still push to have the heated seats retrofitted, 7-800 euro is not much out of a garages pocket and is a nice extra to have

7-800 euro is plenty to be out of pocket, regardless of who the dealer is.

Both parties in this case haven't really done themselves any favours.

The dealer to be fair has recognised it's mistake and tried to offer some form of compensation.

What I want to know is did the price of the car reflect that it had heated seats or not i.e. did the OP actually pay for them?