Critique my poem please

petrarch

Its supposed to be a Shakespearan style sonnet

To roam the Earth and learn her many tongues,
To fish fresh waters with a cheery Basque,
To breathe purest air with untainted lungs,
To wander the bazaar in fine damask.

To chatter with candour in Catalan,
To read Goethe in the vernacular,
To chew coca leaves with the native clan,
To see a sunset so spectacular.

Pity those who wander not to heart's content,
Unbeknownst by shackles tightly bound,
For whom I write this most earnest lament,
That they will gain a wisdom most profound.

To sally forth, that they may feel in haste,
The beating heart of Mother Earth's embrace.

PurpleBee

If the sole purpose of the piece is to imitate the form of a Shakespearean sonnet then you are on your way there but in my opinion the message of the poem is a little confused.

PurpleBee

something fishy about all this...

Eggy Baby!

Very Shakespearean indeed.

Eggy Baby!

Excuse me?

Insect Overlord

I'm not sure which I find more unusual, the notion of Petrarch trying to emulate Shakespeare or the subsequent hyperbolic "critique". It's all very strange.

Eggy Baby!

“Forward you workers,
Freedom awaits you,
For all the world and the land and the sea,
On with the fight for the cause of humanity,
March, march you workers and the world will be free!”

This? It ain't a poem. Its a stanza of the Socialist anthem "Varshavianka" as translated by the artist Paul Robeson- I only wish I had that level of creativity!

Should I say the first thing that comes to mind to him or her, Lucy?

Mind explaining what this means?

Its very hard to understand when you speak in metaphors, a goat on yonder mountain speaks with its tongue in cheek! And the moon is full and the crops are ripe, as you know.






down with this sort of thing

PurpleBee

Agent Weebley wrote: »

Hello PurpleBee,

To whom or what are you referring to as fishy?

Anyway, the fishiness you seem to smell goes wherever I go.

I can only smell fish when they are no longer underwater.

Eggy Baby!

It's worth the trouble, because the end product is freedom for everyone in this world . . . not just the illusion of freedom.

Freedom awaits you....

petrarch

Judging by the responses I take it there were some deleted posts? Anyway...

PurpleBee wrote: »

If the sole purpose of the piece is to imitate the form of a Shakespearean sonnet then you are on your way there but in my opinion the message of the poem is a little confused.

Well I like the layout of Shakespeare´s sonnets, Keats copied them as well. Can you elaborate on how the message is a bit confused? Thanks for the critique.

Eggy Baby!

Where did Agent Weebley go? Will I be sent to a gulag for asking?

To fish fresh waters with a cheery Basque,

"Basque" as in the nationality Basque?

petrarch

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

Where did Agent Weebley go? Will I be sent to a gulag for asking?

To fish fresh waters with a cheery Basque,

"Basque" as in the nationality Basque?

"Basque" as in someone from the Basque region. Probably not very correct but poetic licence exists. Besides, Hemingway uses the term numerous times in the same way in "The Sun Also Rises" so if you're going to give out to me give out to him also!

Insect Overlord

Go on so, show us something you've written that's up there with Hemingway's stuff.

petrarch

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Go on so, show us something you've written that's up there with Hemingway's stuff.

This poem is the first thing I've ever put to paper since school so maybe in 10 years! No critique?

Agent Weebley

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

Where did Agent Weebley go? Will I be sent to a gulag for asking?

Hi Eggy Baby,

What happens in Prison Club, stays in Prison Club.

I wrote a limerick when I was in Limerick shortly after Oct 13, 2010 and Jan 16, 2011, when I changed my name from Weeble to my current name.

There was a young Weeble from Dublin,
Who’s ramblings were always a bubblin’
He had to stop bloggin’
Cuz his mind got a floggin’
So he’s taken to all kinds of mumblin’


As I said before, Petrarch, that was a great poem; I wish I could condense my thoughts effectively like that.

PS: thanks, Gordon . . . both feet are now virtually planted on topic.

PurpleBee

I think my main problem with the sonnet is the use of the phrase "sally forth." It's in such a prominent part of the poem, summing up what you've said before that it seems to miss the mark quite wildly.

According to the dictionary to sally is to "rush suddenly (out) from a besieged place upon the enemy." Now from my reading of the poem what is advocated by the poet is not a violent assault but a transcendental openness. So the couplet functions only to contradict this message.

petrarch

PurpleBee wrote: »

I think my main problem with the sonnet is the use of the phrase "sally forth." It's in such a prominent part of the poem, summing up what you've said before that it seems to miss the mark quite wildly.

According to the dictionary to sally is to "rush suddenly (out) from a besieged place upon the enemy." Now from my reading of the poem what is advocated by the poet is not a violent assault but a transcendental openness. So the couplet functions only to contradict this message.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sally

sal·ly (sl)
intr.v. sal·lied, sal·ly·ing, sal·lies
1. To rush out or leap forth suddenly.
2. To issue suddenly from a defensive or besieged position to attack an enemy.
3. To set out on a trip or excursion: sallied forth to see the world.
n. pl. sal·lies

PurpleBee

I think that serves to underline my point. For me sally has military connotations and the dictionary backs me up there. You are using what is listed there as the third definition but you have to be aware of the other meanings that might drown it out.

petrarch

PurpleBee wrote: »

I think that serves to underline my point. For me sally has military connotations and the dictionary backs me up there. You are using what is listed there as the third definition but you have to be aware of the other meanings that might drown it out.

To avoid using a word because of its connotations is ridiculous and limiting. Besides, connotations are subjective - different for each person. I never thought of the military connotation and I'm sure many others wouldn't as well.

Insect Overlord

I'll preface this by saying I enjoyed the poem, and that I do appreciate the sentiment behind it. I'll also admit that the criticisms below could just as easily be applied to most of my own sonnets too.

petrarch wrote: »

To avoid using a word because of its connotations is ridiculous and limiting. Besides, connotations are subjective - different for each person.

Your second sentence contradicts your first. It's important to be aware of the possibility that your words might not be understood the way you want them to be. Poetry as a medium often works on a metaphorical level as much as on a literal one. Careful choice of terms and images is essential unless you plan to include a glossary with each of your poems.

Anyway, I wanted to offer a little bit of constructive criticism on the second stanza.

To chatter with candour in Catalan,
To read Goethe in the vernacular,
To chew coca leaves with the native clan,
To see a sunset so spectacular.

I tried reading these aloud a few times and found the rhythm of lines 2 and 3 didn't sound right. You have your 10 syllables alright, but the stresses don't seem to be in the right places.
The fourth line has the rhythm to perfection and the alliteration sounds great, but it doesn't sit well with the previous three lines. You switch from images of the mouth (chattering, reading, chewing) to the eyes. I don't honestly know why it bothers me, but it stood out to me anyway.

To sally forth, that they may feel in haste,
The beating heart of Mother Earth's embrace.

Finally, is "feeling" something that can deliberately be done in haste? I'm not so sure.

petrarch

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I'll preface this by saying I enjoyed the poem, and that I do appreciate the sentiment behind it. I'll also admit that the criticisms below could just as easily be applied to most of my own sonnets too.



Your second sentence contradicts your first. It's important to be aware of the possibility that your words might not be understood the way you want them to be. Poetry as a medium often works on a metaphorical level as much as on a literal one. Careful choice of terms and images is essential unless you plan to include a glossary with each of your poems.

Anyway, I wanted to offer a little bit of constructive criticism on the second stanza.



I tried reading these aloud a few times and found the rhythm of lines 2 and 3 didn't sound right. You have your 10 syllables alright, but the stresses don't seem to be in the right places.
The fourth line has the rhythm to perfection and the alliteration sounds great, but it doesn't sit well with the previous three lines. You switch from images of the mouth (chattering, reading, chewing) to the eyes. I don't honestly know why it bothers me, but it stood out to me anyway.



Finally, is "feeling" something that can deliberately be done in haste? I'm not so sure.

Great critique. I agree with pretty much everything you said. The problem with the rhythm and the word "feel" were issues I was aware of when I created the thread, but I wanted to see if someone else thought so too! The only thing I don´t understand is how the first two lines cotradict each other?

EDIT: The whole stresses thing is something I don´t see myself mastering any time soon, if ever.

Insect Overlord

petrarch wrote: »

The only thing I don´t understand is how the first two lines cotradict each other?

Sorry, I meant the first two lines of your last post when you mentioned connotations and subjectivity. There's no contradiction at all in the opening lines of the poem.

petrarch wrote: »

EDIT: The whole stresses thing is something I don´t see myself mastering any time soon, if ever.

Apart from lines 3, 6 and 7 you had the stresses exactly right, so don't lose hope on that yet.

Ms.M

Why start the lines with "To"?

PurpleBee

petrarch wrote: »

To avoid using a word because of its connotations is ridiculous and limiting. Besides, connotations are subjective - different for each person. I never thought of the military connotation and I'm sure many others wouldn't as well.

Connotations are not entirely subjective. Although your approach to them as subjective underlines how you have missed the point entirely.

I agree about the "To" thing as well.

petrarch

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Sorry, I meant the first two lines of your last post when you mentioned connotations and subjectivity. There's no contradiction at all in the opening lines of the poem.



Apart from lines 3, 6 and 7 you had the stresses exactly right, so don't lose hope on that yet.

Cheers, I know what I need to work on now.

danigirl

i really like it. well done!