Landlord won't give me my deposit even though I cleared my bill.

skoomi

Hello folks, I'll try to make this as concise as possible.

I moved into a house in January 2012.

There were already 4 girls living there since September 2011.

When I moved in, a pre-paid gas meter had recently been installed because the girls had previously been reckless with the heating - their gas bill was 500e (from September 2011 to December 2011).

From the day I moved in, any heating we used was done with a pre-pay card you top up in a shop. So the previous gas bill has nothing to do with me.

I moved out of the house on June 1st, having cleared the ESB bill, which is the only bill concerning me. I also left the house spotless and without damage etc.

The landlady is refusing to give me my deposit until the girls clear their gas bill. She said once she gets the money from the girls to clear the bill, she will give me the deposit.

The girls will pay the bill eventually, they're not running away from it. But I'm still being punished.

This sounds kind of illegal. How can I get my money back?

Thanks

edellc

Do you have an individual contract or a joint one

As you moved in after this bill was made you need make sure the LL is aware of this (you would be surprised how stupid some can be) so put it in writing when you moved in and when the bill was incurred and that you are seeking your deposit back in full


http://www.threshold.ie/
Ring threshold and let them know the story as they can get in touch with her for you if she is being awkward and make her aware of her legal obligations


https://www.prtb.ie/
if all this fails report her to the PRTB for non return of your deposit

fasttalkerchat

The landlord is in the wrong. Actually even she doesn't have to pay the outstanding bill so she is stupid to try and trick you into paying it.
Get her reported and demand the money in writing.

Ray Palmer

The deposit should be used to clear the bill. Remainder returned and then you and the flat mates can argue among yourselves.
Unless everything was individually sign up for the LL doesn't have to treat you favourably. House rented as a whole so deposit treated as a whole. It is little unfair but no need for the LL to get involved in minor detail.
Even if it was done individually joint bill responsibility remains. You grief is with your flat mates who should pay you as the deposit is held on their debt.

Ray Palmer

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

The landlord is in the wrong. Actually even she doesn't have to pay the outstanding bill so she is stupid to try and trick you into paying it.
Get her reported and demand the money in writing.

Often he utility company use the LL and charge them outstanding bills. Adding a charge meter often requires such a guarentee

fasttalkerchat

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The deposit should be used to clear the bill. Remainder returned and then you and the flat mates can argue among yourselves.
Unless everything was individually sign up for the LL doesn't have to treat you favourably. House rented as a whole so deposit treated as a whole. It is little unfair but no need for the LL to get involved in minor detail.
Even if it was done individually joint bill responsibility remains. You grief is with your flat mates who should pay you as the deposit is held on their debt.

But the doesn't have a with the other housemates. They had a contract with the same landlord and lived in the same house.
As far as I can see someone else owes money to the company and the landlord is trying to shift it to him.

skoomi

edellc wrote: »

Do you have an individual contract or a joint one

As you moved in after this bill was made you need make sure the LL is aware of this (you would be surprised how stupid some can be) so put it in writing when you moved in and when the bill was incurred and that you are seeking your deposit back in full

Contract is individual. The landlady is FULLY aware that the gas bill has NOTHING to do with me.

Here is a text she sent me: "I rented out the house on the basis that the tenants would pay the utility bills, now I find out that the gas bill has never been paid. No problem with your deposit but I have to give it to you out of the money I get from the girls for the gas bill."

I paid my ESB utility bill - the only utility bill that concerned me. Whatever trouble the girls got into before I arrived in the house shouldn't be affecting my deposit like this.

Also, it doesn't make any sense that she has to give me my deposit "out of the money I get from the girls for the gas bill".

The deposit is €260. I find it hard to believe that she can't spare that much for me, especially considering that 5 tenants X €260 = €1,300 of deposit money currently being held by her. I asked her to take my money from the girls deposits but she sent me the message above.

Thanks for the quick replies.

Graces7

Ray Palmer wrote: »

the first sentence isn't a sentence so no idea what you mean there.
The LL is holding them jointly responsible no need to sort out their mess. Say if the all claim they aren't responsible for the bill. How do you decide?
When you move in with people thems the risks.

Individual contract. WHich the OP took care to negotiate.

Not thus jointly responsible so the LL is at fault here; holding the deposit hostage. She is not asking for the deposit paid by the others, simply for her's LL needs to return deposit and stop scapegoating the OP

Ray Palmer

If she is acknowledging you have no responsibility it changes things. No reason to hold your money. Never get why some LL don't put deposits to one side.
There should be a 3 rd party to hold such money.

Graces7

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If she is acknowledging you have no responsibility it changes things. No reason to hold your money. Never get why some LL don't put deposits to one side.
There should be a 3 rd party to hold such money.

Threshold are working on just this..to bring ireland in line with many other countries

fasttalkerchat

If the LL is claiming that she literally doesn't have the money tell her to start selling possessions. She had no right to spend YOUR deposit. She was holding it until the contract ends. Its not her money.

edellc

OP she has acknowledged that she owes you the deposit so you need to get back in contact and arrange with her when you can collect it, and inform her once more that your deposit is nothing to do with an outstanding bill as you are and never was liable for it. Tell her you want this sorted out in a speedy manner or you are going to be left with no choice but to report her to the PRTB.

As your contract was individual and not jointly and also started after the others girls and after the esb bill was incurred your deposit should not be used to clear the bill as Ray Palmer has said, he is wrong

Make sure you keep a note of all contact with her so if she really does drag her heels then you have a written record of events should you need to actually involve the PRTB.

If all else fails maybe get mammy to give her a ring nothing worse than an Irish mammy threatening you hehehehe

Best of luck with it and keep us informed as this is just so annoying that LL's behave this way unfortunately this isnt an isolated case

odds_on

edellc wrote: »

OP she has acknowledged that she owes you the deposit so you need to get back in contact and arrange with her when you can collect it, and inform her once more that your deposit is nothing to do with an outstanding bill as you are and never was liable for it. Tell her you want this sorted out in a speedy manner or you are going to be left with no choice but to report her to the PRTB.

As your contract was individual and not jointly and also started after the others girls and after the esb bill was incurred your deposit should not be used to clear the bill as Ray Palmer has said, he is wrong

Make sure you keep a note of all contact with her so if she really does drag her heels then you have a written record of events should you need to actually involve the PRTB.

If all else fails maybe get mammy to give her a ring nothing worse than an Irish mammy threatening you hehehehe

Best of luck with it and keep us informed as this is just so annoying that LL's behave this way unfortunately this isnt an isolated case

I can't quite work out what type of lease the OP has with the landlord. If I understand correctly, the OP has own individual lease for a bedroom and shared facilities, then OP cannot make a claim with the PRTB as this type of tenancy does not fulfil the requirements of a dwelling as defined in the RTA 2004.

On the other hand if the house was rented out as a single unit with all names on the same lease, (OP's name being added to the lease) then OP is jointly and severally liable to the landlord for any debts. However, the OP can claim from the other tenants.

As the OP can prove that s/he was not in occupation when the gas was used, IMHO, the LL should return the deposit (but I do not understand how OP can leave the house mid term without incurring a penalty, unless his/her individual lease has come to an end but seems unlikely after 5 months). A suggestion that a claim with the PRTB for the return of the deposit may encourage the LL to return the deposit.

Ted Mosby

skoomi wrote: »

Hello folks, I'll try to make this as concise as possible.

I moved into a house in January 2012.

There were already 4 girls living there since September 2011.

When I moved in, a pre-paid gas meter had recently been installed because the girls had previously been reckless with the heating - their gas bill was 500e (from September 2011 to December 2011).

From the day I moved in, any heating we used was done with a pre-pay card you top up in a shop. So the previous gas bill has nothing to do with me.

I moved out of the house on June 1st, having cleared the ESB bill, which is the only bill concerning me. I also left the house spotless and without damage etc.

The landlady is refusing to give me my deposit until the girls clear their gas bill. She said once she gets the money from the girls to clear the bill, she will give me the deposit.

The girls will pay the bill eventually, they're not running away from it. But I'm still being punished.

This sounds kind of illegal. How can I get my money back?

Thanks

Was there a term on your lease? Five months sounds short. It could be that the landlady was in the right if you signed a six month or twelve month lease and you left after only five months and that this was the wholly legal reason why your deposit was withheld.

I also wholly support the UK system where a third party holds the deposit and not the landlord or their agent. This protects both parties, because the classic Irish use of the deposit as a default for the last month's rent never happens, nor does withholding deposits for cash flow reasons.

edellc

odds_on wrote: »

I can't quite work out what type of lease the OP has with the landlord. If I understand correctly, the OP has own individual lease for a bedroom and shared facilities, then OP cannot make a claim with the PRTB as this type of tenancy does not fulfil the requirements of a dwelling as defined in the RTA 2004.

On the other hand if the house was rented out as a single unit with all names on the same lease, (OP's name being added to the lease) then OP is jointly and severally liable to the landlord for any debts. However, the OP can claim from the other tenants.

As the OP can prove that s/he was not in occupation when the gas was used, IMHO, the LL should return the deposit (but I do not understand how OP can leave the house mid term without incurring a penalty, unless his/her individual lease has come to an end but seems unlikely after 5 months). A suggestion that a claim with the PRTB for the return of the deposit may encourage the LL to return the deposit.

Dont know how you dont understand what type of lease the OP has its has been made crystal clear.

It is an individual lease, she moved in after the other girls and after the esb for 500 euro, so she is not responsible for the esb bill as she didnt even live there when it was incurred, how have so many of you not understood that

she is not liable in any way for the bill and the LL has no right in keeping her deposit, it is not up to the OP to run after the other girls for her deposit back like the LL is suggesting as the LL has paid the bill, and the LL acknowledged that the OP was there after the bill was incurred and is due her deposit back

read her posts seriously

Graces7

Ted Mosby wrote: »

Was there a term on your lease? Five months sounds short. It could be that the landlady was in the right if you signed a six month or twelve month lease and you left after only five months and that this was the wholly legal reason why your deposit was withheld.

I also wholly support the UK system where a third party holds the deposit and not the landlord or their agent. This protects both parties, because the classic Irish use of the deposit as a default for the last month's rent never happens, nor does withholding deposits for cash flow reasons.

NB the reason tenants do this is because, as in this case, lls here are notoriously bad at returning deposits. Many of us know this and are so short of cash for the deposit and rent on the new place... Few lls seem to actually complain about this? All part of life here it seems:rolleyes:

And certainly they do not set the money aside. We once only got part of the deposit back as we bumped into the LL in town and escorted her to the ATM.;)

skoomi

For those wondering about the length of the contract, it was a student letting ie. until the end of the college year. I came to the house in January when one of the tenants left mid-contract - I took his room. The house will presumably be let to normal folk for the summer and then rented out to students again come September. It is common to see houses rented out in Cork City in this manner. In any case, my tenancy agreement mentions nothing about the length of the contract.

The tenancy agreement doesn't mention anything out of the ordinary about utility bills except that the tenant must pay promptly all charges for the utilities.

Can she interpret that as the gas bill being my responsibility too?

Also, THE LANDLORD AGREES WITH THE TENANT:

3.4 To pay promptly to the tenant when he or she quits the dwelling any deposit that he or she has paid except any portion that the landlord is entitled to retain, to cover: (a) any arrears of rent and the cost of recovering such arrears, and (b) any breach by the tenant of Clause 2.15 (damage to property etc.) and the costs incurred in making good any such breach.


I'll text her one last time to plead for my money, then onto threshold.ie on Monday. Or should I call her and record the phone call?

Also it may be worth noting that she never gave me a rent book.

odds_on

skoomi wrote: »

For those wondering about the length of the contract, it was a student letting ie. until the end of the college year. I came to the house in January when one of the tenants left mid-contract - I took his room. The house will presumably be let to normal folk for the summer and then rented out to students again come September. It is common to see houses rented out in Cork City in this manner.

The tenancy agreement doesn't mention anything out of the ordinary about utility bills except that the tenant must pay promptly all charges for the utilities.

Can she interpret that as the gas bill being my responsibility too?

Also, THE LANDLORD AGREES WITH THE TENANT:

3.4 To pay promptly to the tenant when he or she quits the dwelling any deposit that he or she has paid except any portion that the landlord is entitled to retain, to cover: (a) any arrears of rent and the cost of recovering such arrears, and (b) any breach by the tenant of Clause 2.15 (damage to property etc.) and the costs incurred in making good any such breach.


I'll text her one last time to plead for my money, then onto threshold.ie on Monday. Or should I call her and record the phone call?

Also it may be worth noting that she never gave me a rent book.

"Until the end of the college year" is very vague, there should be a date. Is that what the lease says - assuming you got a copy of the lease which was assigned to you.

I think a letter from Threshold might get her to pay up, if they will write one. take the lease along with you if you have the copy.

Graces7

skoomi wrote: »

For those wondering about the length of the contract, it was a student letting ie. until the end of the college year. I came to the house in January when one of the tenants left mid-contract - I took his room. The house will presumably be let to normal folk for the summer and then rented out to students again come September. It is common to see houses rented out in Cork City in this manner. In any case, my tenancy agreement mentions nothing about the length of the contract.

The tenancy agreement doesn't mention anything out of the ordinary about utility bills except that the tenant must pay promptly all charges for the utilities.

Can she interpret that as the gas bill being my responsibility too?

Also, THE LANDLORD AGREES WITH THE TENANT:

3.4 To pay promptly to the tenant when he or she quits the dwelling any deposit that he or she has paid except any portion that the landlord is entitled to retain, to cover: (a) any arrears of rent and the cost of recovering such arrears, and (b) any breach by the tenant of Clause 2.15 (damage to property etc.) and the costs incurred in making good any such breach.


I'll text her one last time to plead for my money, then onto threshold.ie on Monday. Or should I call her and record the phone call?

Also it may be worth noting that she never gave me a rent book.

That is interesting; see bolded.. I never read that before and that means in fact that we can withold the last month;s rent as we know the ll can retain the deposit for that purpose.

Grand so!

skoomi

odds_on wrote: »

"Until the end of the college year" is very vague, there should be a date. Is that what the lease says - assuming you got a copy of the lease which was assigned to you.

I just quoted passages from my tenancy agreement and you ask if I have one!

Anyway, it doesn't matter about the college year or the length of contract.

She has stated that she's holding my deposit because of other tenants refusing to pay a bill they incurred from before I moved in.

edellc

Why is it even relevant that its until the end of the college year as opposed to a date?????

Seriously odds on your making issues when there are none

OP ring threshold on Monday get them to give her a call and make her aware of her obligations, you are not as I have said 3 times now on this thread liable as you entered your individual lease after the bill was incurred, LL has no right to retain any of your deposit as you lived up to your end of the lease

A call from threshold should move things alone for you

skoomi

Just texted the LL one last time. By the way I'm not sure if I already mentioned it but the girls have also moved out, and the LL has delegated everything to me. So I often get texts from her asking about the girls.

Me: I was texting the girls about their gas bill, they said they're ready to pay but are having some problems with Biddy (fake name) since she's in tipperary, and they've been busy recently with work. Could you take up the issue with Biddy maybe? I don't have her number so there's nothing more i can do. I don't see the girls anymore we just communicate thru text so this is becoming costly for me texting back and forth about a bill which i am not liable for. Since u have already acknowledged that the gas bill was incurred by the girls and not myself, and i have done all i can especially with the esb, could i get my deposit back this weekend?

Landlady: I'm sorry ur caught up n this Sean but once I get d money from the girls I will settle with u. Biddy is uncontactable.


One of the girls just texted me and told me that "Biddy" is having second thoughts about paying the gas bill and may just let the landlord keep the deposit. These "seconds thoughts" are, I guess, the reason she is uncontactable. It seems this may drag on for a while so I guess threshhold is my only option unless I can get a guarantee from the girls that everything will be sorted next week.

fasttalkerchat

skoomi wrote: »

Just texted the LL one last time. By the way I'm not sure if I already mentioned it but the girls have also moved out, and the LL has delegated everything to me. So I often get texts from her asking about the girls.

Me: I was texting the girls about their gas bill, they said they're ready to pay but are having some problems with Biddy (fake name) since she's in tipperary, and they've been busy recently with work. Could you take up the issue with Biddy maybe? I don't have her number so there's nothing more i can do. I don't see the girls anymore we just communicate thru text so this is becoming costly for me texting back and forth about a bill which i am not liable for. Since u have already acknowledged that the gas bill was incurred by the girls and not myself, and i have done all i can especially with the esb, could i get my deposit back this weekend?

Landlady: I'm sorry ur caught up n this Sean but once I get d money from the girls I will settle with u. Biddy is uncontactable.


One of the girls just texted me and told me that "Biddy" is having second thoughts about paying the gas bill and may just let the landlord keep the deposit. These "seconds thoughts" are, I guess, the reason she is uncontactable. It seems this may drag on for a while so I guess threshhold is my only option unless I can get a guarantee from the girls that everything will be sorted next week.

If one of your housemates owed you money you wouldn't withhold rent until you got it back. I can't believe her behaviour here.

Graces7

Threshold will sort this fast. Ridiculous ll here.