Lara Croft will be the victim of attempted rape in new game

cloud493

Kotaku via Eurogamer wrote:
Players will want to "protect" an increasingly-battered Lara Croft in the upcoming Tomb Raider reboot, its executive producer has said.

The series' young heroine will lose her best friend, be beaten, bruised, kidnapped, and finally be subjected to an attempted rape.

"When you see her have to face these challenges, you start to root for her in a way that you might not root for a male character," executive producer Ron Rosenberg explained to Kotaku.

"When people play Lara, they don't really project themselves into the character. They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'"

The challenges facing Croft will allow her to appear more human, Rosenberg added.

"The ability to see her as a human is even more enticing to me than the more sexualized version of yesteryear. She literally goes from zero to hero... we're sort of building her up and just when she gets confident, we break her down again."

"She is literally turned into a cornered animal. "It's a huge step in her evolution: she's forced to either fight back or die."

It's not the first time that developer Crystal Dynamics has explained how it wants players to notice Lara's youth and vulnerability. Art director Brian Horton revealed last year that the new Lara, by design, has "a little bit of that baby fat".

"We wanted to make a girl that was somewhat familiar, yet had a special quality about her - something in the way her eyes look and her expression in her face that makes you want to care for her."

"Her skin is still bare on the arms and there are going to be rips and tears on her clothes, but it won't be about being revealing. It's a way of saying that through these tough situations, there is a beauty and vulnerability coming through. I think that is sexy in its own way."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-13-lara-croft-attempted-rape-will-make-tomb-raider-players-want-to-protect-her


Now, to put this in perspective. It has been revealed since the 'rape' scene in question is in fact, the scene from the E3 trailer, where Lara is tied up, bloke feels her up, and she blows his head off. But since various media outlets have reacted to this as 'inappropriate' the question is, why is it?

Its not the first time media has used rape as a core subject matter, or even as a way to strengthen its character. Their are books, tv shows, films, based around the subject of rape. Even in heavy rain, the subject is implied, with your woman whose name I don't recall. But people seem to think its appropriate now, or rather it was. While this is clearly, a young Lara then any we've before seen, its hardly a helpless victim situation, she shoots the guy in the head. Thoughts?

The trailer for those who didn't see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol_-QGlwRqc

johnny_ultimate

Third thread I've posted in about this today :pac:

1. The situation has been skewed and blown out of all proportion by embarrassing tabloid journalism and misguided marketing (although everyone's talking about the game now, so it's a success in a cynical sort of way).

2. Games shouldn't be scared of tackling issues like this, but it's a worryingly fine line between exploitation and worthwhile provocation.

3. While there is potential in the concept - especially if it takes the time to examine and critique Croft's descent into the hell, alá Irreversible or Apocalypse Now - there is the worry this is going to be the same old simplistic 'revenge fantasy'. If - as Naughty Dog are entirely unwilling to do with Nathan Drake - they illustrate how Lara transforming into a killing machine probably isn't the ideal moralistic reaction to acts of violence... No. That's not going to happen, is it?

In short: I am cautiously pessimistic, but do not feel games should shy away from potentially challenging content if it's handled sensibly.

K.O.Kiki

cloud493 wrote: »

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-13-lara-croft-attempted-rape-will-make-tomb-raider-players-want-to-protect-her


Now, to put this in perspective. It has been revealed since the 'rape' scene in question is in fact, the scene from the E3 trailer, where Lara is tied up, bloke feels her up, and she blows his head off. But since various media outlets have reacted to this as 'inappropriate' the question is, why is it?

Its not the first time media has used rape as a core subject matter, or even as a way to strengthen its character. Their are books, tv shows, films, based around the subject of rape. Even in heavy rain, the subject is implied, with your woman whose name I don't recall. But people seem to think its appropriate now, or rather it was. While this is clearly, a young Lara then any we've before seen, its hardly a helpless victim situation, she shoots the guy in the head. Thoughts?

The trailer for those who didn't see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGlwRqc

• Trailer embed fail.
• Fúck Kotaku.
• This is not a "core subject matter". You can clearly see it is a one-time only use to help the player understand the character's actions in this situation.
• FÚCK KOTAKU.
• Fúck the scaremongering whiney media, too. The only reason this is causing any kind of outrage is because they think all gaming is for children. :rolleyes:

cloud493

I was making the point that the subject has been used as a core subject.

johnny_ultimate

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

FÚCK KOTAKU.

As bad as Kotaku are, the Metro Herald this morning had a reaction quote from the Rape Crisis Centre.

Not to trivialize the severity of the real life implications of the crime, but the world would be a better, more understanding place if tabloids would just shut up with the whole moral outrage angle already.

weiland79

Couldn't believe it when i saw this as the front page headline on this mornings Metro rag.

Mass genocide and ethnic cleansing in Syria. The worlds most prolific kiddie fiddlers and rapists having a right old knees up in the RDS in Dublin. And they lead with this Bollix.

The mind boggles.

deathrider

I'd quite like to see what that paper has to say on the matter, just so I can see how much bullsh1t they spurt out.

In fairness though, that scene in the trailer was the main one that stuck out in my mind. It hit me like a ton of bricks, as this is Lara Croft being subjected to such a violent act. Lara being a huge female role models, and probably video games' most well known one at that. However, I think this is a bold, and probably good move. It's a strong subject, true, but why should it not be featured in Tomb Raider? I have high hopes for the game, and thus far, that looks like it maybe one of the most memorable moment- to see her overcome such horrible and overwhelming odds.

calex71

Lara (the franchise not her literally ) has been raped for years ..... everything after the last revelation has been sub par, with the exception of guardian of light which was quite good.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

3. While there is potential in the concept - especially if it takes the time to examine and critique Croft's descent into the hell, alá Irreversible or Apocalypse Now - there is the worry this is going to be the same old simplistic 'revenge fantasy'. If - as Naughty Dog are entirely unwilling to do with Nathan Drake - they illustrate how Lara transforming into a killing machine probably isn't the ideal moralistic reaction to acts of violence... No. That's not going to happen, is it?

.

Truly one of the most sickening and graphic things I have seen on screen , but a great example of how if in the right context and handled correctly as it was in that movie it can work and show the dark side of humanity in a really eye opening way , I just hope it's not slipped in as a revenge fantasy type thing either , then I would have issue with it. There are many ways to get her to were she needs to go without going down the rape route I think unless it is exceptionally well handled ........

deathrider

calex71 wrote: »

Lara (the franchise not her literally ) has been raped for years ..... everything after the last revelation has been sub par, with the exception of guardian of light which was quite good.

I couldn't disagree more.

cloud493

I'm not the biggest tomraider fan as of right now, the thing that turned me onto this is the new look of Lara, and that the hopefully make the mechanics/controls more 'uncharted'

Duggy747

Been seeing this story all day and just saw the trailer, I expected to see alot worse in that footage, to be honest.

Non-story tabloid horseshìte drivel that will garner free publicity for Lara Croft. It's working since this is probably the 1st time I've ever talked about that series.

Tabloids will roll with the perception that lonely weirdos and kids are the only ones who play games and the flash of anything remotely sexual in tone or imagery will create an insatiable lust which will lead to rape or murder.

Ho-hum.

J. Marston

It's weird, the media says that video games desensitize people towards violence and such but I've become desensitized towards to their reports on the subject. It used to annoy me, now I'm just like ''Meh.''

James Howlett

calex71 wrote: »

Lara (the franchise not her literally ) has been raped for years ..... everything after the last revelation has been sub par, with the exception of guardian of light which was quite good.

You sir are no better than the sensationalist, headline grabbing journalists in the OP.:P

Potential-Monke

That was no more a rape than Barney hugging a child. And i had the fap-sock ready...

On a serious note, if it is a proper part of the story and works the way they are predicting, then it's good. If it's just included to get sensationalism or be different, then i can't see it working.

And i don't listen to the media in relation to gaming anymore.

Potential-Monke

RopeDrink wrote: »

None of it makes me bat an eyelid but I suppose after 23 years of gaming as someone pushing 30 you tend to not be phased by any of this - Afterall, I've played games and seen other media portray far worse than this over the years.

Same boat as yourself, and unless some game comes along that's an interactive "A Serbian Film" i'll find very little to shock me in gaming!

Atomicjuicer

Everything I've seen about this game leads me to believe it's glorified torture porn.

As a fan of Tomb Raider (Legends was my favourite) I'm disgusted.

Graphics look amazing though.

deathrider

Atomicjuicer wrote: »

Everything I've seen about this game leads me to believe it's glorified torture porn.

As a fan of Tomb Raider (Legends was my favourite) I'm disgusted.

Graphics look amazing though.

Glorified torture porn? That's a bit harsh. It hits me more as a gritty fight for survival than a Saw movie featuring Lara.

ancapailldorcha

deathrider wrote: »

Glorified torture porn? That's a bit harsh. It hits me more as a gritty fight for survival than a Saw movie featuring Lara.

+1. If we take out every offensive element from games, we're just going to end up with dull, politically correct slop. Whether or not it's necessary for Lara to be the victim of an attempted rape is debatable but it's plausible in this setting. I've just seen this on The Guardian's website and they seem to have gotten the idea that it's going to be an interactive sequence. I've never really been a Tomb Raider fan but I don't see why she needs to be weak to become strong.

Sarky

Handled correctly, it could be a powerful story. There's nore reason why it couldn't work.

Alas, trusting game developers to handle controversy delicately and tastefully is usually like trusting Josef Mengele to handle a bris.

That's not entirely fair really. Mass Effect 3 handled the homosexual male aspect pretty well and that was considered to be quite controversial.

I genuinely don't get the controversy over this. Games have been dealing with tough aspects for a while now - murder (almost every game features this), animal abuse, torture and many more. And yet this is what makes the media get all up in arms? It just seems.. silly.

Atomicjuicer

Eurogamer's take

danthefan

Game looks interesting. I can't believe the fuss being made of it.

ancapailldorcha

It really grates me how the media pick on videogames like this.

Lisbeth Salander

was raped and Westeros has no shortage of rapists and yet none complains. I could understand if it was interactive where the player controlled the rapist but this is just ridiculous.

Zillah

It's just one more example of how mainstream culture is still forcing games to play catch-up when it comes to popular media. A film exploring the trauma of rape could win an oscar and be lauded in very serious circles, but there is a generational issue where the people directing the tone of journalism still think games are for children, or are somehow second-class, and therefore cannot tackle serious subjects without condemnation. Gay themed films are fine, artsy and respectable, but a single PG kiss in Mass Effect 3 is a scandal. Graphic rape in a film is a legitimate exploration of the issue, but a man suggestively touching Lara is headline news.

It's a little bit of an old-boy's club. They'll die off and the next generation will see films, games, books, theatre etc as different forms of expression.

That said, while I have no problem at all with the content we see in the trailer, most of what that guy quoted in the OP comes across as a little creepy.

fergalr

I believe in the potential of video games as an artist medium.
I think games can be used to explore hard issues, like other media are.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of games are, at best, immature.

Most games are part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.


Someone saying 'Oh, movies deal with topics of sexual violence, so why cant games?' is missing the point.

A movie can feature sexual violence, while being brutal, in an attempt to raise awareness of bad **** that happens, and make us think about the bad things that happen in the world. 'Lilya 4-ever', which is very hard watching, comes to mind as an example.

A different movie could feature very similar sexual violence, but for completely different reasons; lets say it was a 'women-in-refrigerators' cheap way of moving along a plot.


Even though the subject matter is similar in both cases, movies that do the former are ok; movies that do the latter are really just being exploitative, and are bad.


The point is that its not so much what happens, as the context in which it happens.



My issue with sexual violence coming into Tomb Raider is that I don't think that Tomb Raider is the kind of game that is likely to handle this stuff in a mature and constructive way.


The 'Lara Croft' character is controversial.

You can look at the character as a strong female role model, an active action hero in an an 'indiana jones' style context; a good thing because a female is the protagonist, rather than just a backdrop always waiting to be rescued. Thats one point of view.

You can also look at the character as a cynical marketing ploy to gain attention, and play to adolescent male fantasies by having a pair of big breasts constantly on the screen. In that case, the character is basically there to be exploited. Thats another point of view.



Honestly, in the world of mass market video games, and commerical decisions, and given the history of the Tomb Raider franchise, I'd have to say the latter is more likely to be correct. Its debatable, but thats my instinct.


Certainly, with the executive producer - a very important role - saying things like:

"When people play Lara, they don't really project themselves into the character. They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'"

its not looking very hopeful.



So, this is why there's a big problem when sexual violence is introduced into the mix. Its because the Lara Croft character is there as a marketing gimmick. And when someone starts writing sexual violence into the story, in order to exploit a marketing gimmick, thats really not good.


We can't say for sure; maybe the develoers are actually trying to write a new type of Tomb Raider story, which is much more complex, and deal with this topic in an appropriate way. Seems pretty unlikely to me. Sadly, I think its more likely that they are just trying to exploit the character, and that, at best, the sexual violence will serve as a catalyst for a wooden revenge plot, or to introduce some sort of cheap drama.


Honestly, gamers should demand better.

Theres been bits of games, for a long time, that show what good writing could do (recently, bits of Mass Effect 3 are notably good (not the ending, obviously)).

But gamers keep paying their cash for any old dross.

Even worse is gamers who run around defending games against legitimate criticism. I think this is because these gamers identify and care a lot about the medium that they have invested so much time in, and really like. But these gamers are really part of the problem.

This was clear recently, with that woman trying to do some feminist criticism of tropes in video games, who got so much abuse for it. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games

If the morons giving the abuse actually watched her other videos, she's actually giving very intelligent and even handed criticism, that could do a lot to make video games better for everyone.


I think that gamers have seen loads of uninformed criticism, for a long time (I remember all the controversy about Mortal Kombat, back in the day), and this has given them some sort of persecution reflex against any criticism.

It'd be nice if everyone just grew up a bit.

K.O.Kiki

fergalr wrote:

You can also look at the character as a cynical marketing ploy to gain attention, and play to adolescent male fantasies by having a pair of big breasts constantly on the screen. In that case, the character is basically there to be exploited. Thats another point of view.

>Breasts
Nope. :pac:

ancapailldorcha

fergalr wrote: »

This was clear recently, with that woman trying to do some feminist criticism of tropes in video games, who got so much abuse for it. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games

That's a small minority. It's the same as that Daily Mail article about the non-smoker who got lung cancer. I know plenty of people who play games who have no problems with women as presenters of these things.

ShadowHearth

So we can watch rape scenes in movies as much as we want, but 1 short scene of attempt rape in ADULT video game is the end of the world.

I don't know if I like game to be honest, it's just some sort of torture simulator. It's way overdone in one direction and half way trailer you just go: affs is there something more then putting wounds on Lara in this game?
It's same like mgs4, where snakes spitting of blood was not emotional anymore, it was just annoying amd overdone.

deathrider

ShadowHearth wrote: »

So we can watch rape scenes in movies as much as we want, but 1 short scene of attempt rape in ADULT video game is the end of the world.

Isn't it always the way? Any other medium hits a story touching dodgy territory, it's applauded. Video games attempt it, it's another case of "down with this sort of thing" and "careful now!"

Corkfeen

deathrider wrote: »

Isn't it always the way? Any other medium hits a story touching dodgy territory, it's applauded. Video games attempt it, it's another case of "down with this sort of thing" and "careful now!"

To be fair I think it's a matter of time before this viewpoint begins to change. Games are just another medium to tell a story (In fact an even more open medium). When the first novels came out, many viewed them as a waste of time or even works of vulgarity, somewhat similar to the viewpoints on gaming. I'm still hoping that they get some of the legendary tv or film scriptwriters in to help write games at some point. The idea of an Aaron Sorkin writing a game sounds amazing to me. :pac: