Tone Wood. Does it make a difference to the tone ?

Rigsby

I found an interesting discussion on this topic elsewhere, and thought we could air our thoughts and opinions here.

Firstly, we are talking about solid body instruments as apart from acoustic hollow body ones, as it is generally accepted that in this case the wood does make a difference. Secondly, we are talking about TONE, as apart from the attractive appearance, weight, etc, of any particular wood.

So, do you think the wood used in construction makes a significant difference to the tone of an instrument ?

My own opinion is, that it does not. Any difference it might make is minimal, when you consider the many components in the sound chain, i.e. strings, pre amp, amp, active/passive, cab, speakers, and the player's technique.

darrenw5094

Mahogany, Alder and basswood are the 3 main ones used. All have their own tones.

Mahogany deep, fat bass etc.
Alder is bright.
Basswood is mellow with little high end.

Anyway, good discussion on the other variables that affect tone. But my biggest one after tricking with guitars lately is pickups. Just as important, if not more so, than the body wood.

martinedwards

Just like acoustics there are a wide variety of influences, of which the wood certainly is one.....

but

a strat made of mahogany will still sound like a strat... but slightly different....

likewise a LesPaul made of solid maple will sound different to one made of Mahogany with the maple cap.

the gauge of the strings and the scale length will have a bigger input than the type of body (and neck) wood, but the pick-ups will have the biggest impact.

darrenw5094

martinedwards wrote: »

Just like acoustics there are a wide variety of influences, of which the wood certainly is one.....

but

a strat made of mahogany will still sound like a strat... but slightly different....

likewise a LesPaul made of solid maple will sound different to one made of Mahogany with the maple cap.

the gauge of the strings and the scale length will have a bigger input than the type of body (and neck) wood, but the pick-ups will have the biggest impact.

A Les Paul made of maple, i would love to hear.:)

String gauge could, if you talk 9's to 11's or greater. But definately agree on the pickup one though.

martinedwards

I notice a huge difference with strings, both acoustic and electric.

on acoustics, factory made guitars generally need at least mediums to drive the top as they are generally (OK, huge generalisations I Know!) build more structurally heavy.

handmades are often lighter built and respond better to ligher strings.... I know that Dee McIlroys warranty is voided if you put heavier than mediums on his guitars.....

on electrics, I like 9s. I have two guitars (a strat and a self built) with piezo bridges and to get the more acoustic sounds I NEED to go up to 10s as the 9s just dont cut it.

I have 2 variaxes too. one has 9s. I tried the other out with 10s and while the sound is good, I don't like the feel, so they'll be going back to 9s with the next setup.

I personally perfer the longe scale length of a fender style, and DO go up to 10s on a shorter LP style, though I don't have any at the minute

Grolschevik

darrenw5094 wrote: »

A Les Paul made of maple, i would love to hear.:)

String gauge could, if you talk 9's to 11's or greater. But definately agree on the pickup one though.

I'm not sure about wood. Think about the various perspex and metal bodied guitars there are. Could you really tell what they were made of from a recording? Most people would be able to identify a traditional pick-up Strat, but could you really tell tell a Strat's bridge humbucker from a Les Paul's bridge humbucker, especially when playing distorted? Pretty sure I couldn't.

And on Les Paul woods: I have an excellent Pearl-branded Les Paul copy that is made out of, I'm told, alder. The only difference in tone that I can hear between it and my 1998 LP Standard comes from the fact that the Pearl has DiMarzio pickups and the Gibson's are stock.

So yeah; wood might play a part, but it's far from the most important contributory factor. Playing style, pick, strings, pickups, EQ, effects, amp, speakers are all probably more important.

I left out cable, as I'm not comvinced. And as for battery type...

darrenw5094

Grolschevik wrote: »

I left out cable, as I'm not comvinced. And as for battery type...

Duracell all the way. More open sound with tighter bass, punchy and full of harmonics.:)

Surely people could spot the difference between a Strat bridge and LP bridge with distortion. I hope i could at this stage.:eek:

Grolschevik

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Surely people could spot the difference between a Strat bridge and LP bridge with distortion. I hope i could at this stage.:eek:

If they're both EMGs? I dunno: depends on the level of distortion...

martinedwards

those of us who are guitar geeks might be able to rell, 99% of the public might notice a difference, but be able to tell you what? I don't think so!

Ive seen vids of satriani playing a clear acrylic guitar, but he uses so much signal processing that even he couldn't tell the difference by sound.

darrenw5094

Grolschevik wrote: »

If they're both EMGs? I dunno: depends on the level of distortion...

Hmmm......wasn't thinking the Strat had a humbucker also.

Rigsby

Most seem to agree that the effect on tone of the wood used, is minimal. So why do you think there is such an emphasis on this, when buying or selling a guitar ? Granted, looks play a part, but even the cheapest wood can look good if the finish is right.

Banjo

Personally if I had two guitars with the same strings and pickups in them, going into the same amp at the same settings, but totally different body and/or caps I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference, at least not once I plugged them in. There will always be subtleties to the tone that might differ but without listening to a sustained note on a clean signal or playing without amplification I don't think most people would pick them out. Maybe if you're a very experienced musician or sound engineer and you know what you're hearing and not hearing. And in some ways, isn't that a good thing? Would it be worth never being able to enjoy another bottle of cheap Tesco Aussie red so that you could fully appreciate the subtleties of a '45 Pétrus?

If you look at the 2012 build challenge over on TDPRI, there are 2 telecasters that are worth looking at in relation to tone woods. One is made of lollipop sticks (no, really; the body, the neck, even the bridge!) and the other is a concrete body with a standard neck. Granted, your listening to them compressed in the youtube videos but still, I'm not hearing exotic materials, I'm hearing generic pickups. But then, I like my 1L bottle of Tesco Aussie red

Grolschevik

Rigsby wrote: »

So why do you think there is such an emphasis on this, when buying or selling a guitar ?

Is there, though?

If there is, apart from reputation, resale, and mythology then...

If someone's selling a guitar, knowing the wood might give you extra info about the line it's part of and an extra insight into the price you think it should be; eg Smartwood LP Studio or Swamp Ash Strat.

If someone is selling a guitar that is known to be traditionally a mahogany/maple combo, but is hazy/evasive/lying about the wood actually in it, I suppose that might give you reason to be suspicious.

On the other hand, does anyone really care what an Ibanez Jenm is made of?:)

Doc_Savage

i have to say that all guitars sound different to me... but i think that it's a psychological thing to do with the feel of it... the feel of guitars tend to change the way i play them and probably varies my technique until i get a tone that i think "suits" the guitar...

acoustic instruments are all about the wood and the strings... there's nothing else there making any sound.

on an electric instrument the strings, pickups and construction (bridge, neck joint, etc) all come into play... but the pickups and strings make the bulk of the tone... a lot of the other factors only have psychological influence on the tone...

well i think so anyway...

Ravelleman

What I want to know is if your pickups would sound as sweet to you if they weren't called something cool like 'Filtertrons' or 'Air Nortons'. Would 'Burstbuckers' be as popular is they were called 'Wangbucker'? Probably not. So much of this hobby/lifestyle choice exists only in the mind, behind a giant wall of marketing.

reniwren

I have 4 different builds that are basically the same electronics and pickups but they are vastly different but only when you are playing them do you notice, the way the notes sustain being the main difference.

Ravelleman

Indeed, normally guitars must be played to notice differences in tone!

BostonB

Dunno I think guitars with a maple neck and board sound much brighter than the rosewood ones. Likewise an SG or V sounds very different to a LP, with the hardware being much the same. Then again it depends on the Player, Jimmy Page seems to make a Tele sound very LP like and a LP very tele like. EVH makes everything sound like EVH. I think Jimi H sounds different on a SG or a Strat though. But everything I play sounds like a POS though.

rcaz

I don't know how much of a difference it actually makes, but if there is a difference, I don't think that difference matters. And if you start worrying about things that small, how will you have any time left to play music? :pac:

I'm not a guitar fetishist at all, maybe I'm a little too quick to discount things like this... But I couldn't care less what material the guitar is made out of as long as we can get some tunes out of it.

Rigsby

rcaz wrote: »

I don't know how much of a difference it actually makes, but if there is a difference, I don't think that difference matters. And if you start worrying about things that small, how will you have any time left to play music? :pac:

I'm not a guitar fetishist at all, maybe I'm a little too quick to discount things like this... But I couldn't care less what material the guitar is made out of as long as we can get some tunes out of it.

I'm on your side here rcaz. You would be surprised though, at the amount of people who claim the wood does make a difference. For these people, here is an interesting link.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-difference-743932/

BostonB

I don't think bass wouldn't be a great example as the frequencies are so low. But in guitars I can hear. Though its mainly at the top end. You get a brighter sound. That said if someone goes through a massive effects or processing rig, or active pickups, you're probably not hearing the guitar at all.

Also it probably depends how something is built too. Good materials but poorly built has to have an effect on sound too. Also you could line up 10 identical guitars and they wouldn't all sound (or feel) the same.

Then of course you have Seasick Steve...and this.....http://www.vintagekramer.com/Ed/guitar-berger-gl2t.jpg

martinedwards

LOVE that thread!!

do the words "emperor" "new" and "Clothes" apply here?

rcaz

Another thing I was thinking of, is there any point worrying about these things in an electric guitar when there are so many other variables influencing your final signal as delivered to your ears?

darrenw5094

rcaz wrote: »

Another thing I was thinking of, is there any point worrying about these things in an electric guitar when there are so many other variables influencing your final signal as delivered to your ears?

I suppose having more wax in your ears might change the overall tone of the sound.:cool:

martinedwards

darrenw5094 wrote: »

I suppose having more wax in your ears might change the overall tone of the sound.:cool:

lots of distorted feedback will help melt that nicely.