Engineer

nyarlothothep

The first officer thread got me thinking, we could have multiple threads for different roles across the different series. Anyway I was thinking about Star Trek engineers

1. Scotty: Exellent mechanic, a very hands on engineer, probably not so good on the theory

2. Geordie La Forge: in my opinion the best engineer in Star Trek, very practical but well read up on theory, highly imaginative too. For that matter I would say Barclay could have been the best engineer in the federation except he was too anxious/nervous to handle crisis situations and he seemed better suited as a researcher, though when he wanted to kick ass he left everyone trailing in his dust.

3. Don't know if O Brien is the engineer in DS9, if so, quite good, like a combination of Scotty and La Forge but not as good as either, an allrounder.

4. Klingon chick I've temporarily forgotten the name of: Quite good but very emotional and therefore a bit unreliable.

5. Trip: car mechanic in space, useless.

Indricotherium

I find all of them to be very weak characters.

In saying that I find most of the main characters on startrek to be very weak.

They get found out for depth because you see them every week and as basic characters with only one aspect them it shows.

With the bad guys / one offs this is less apparent, because you only get an hour with them. You can speculate on the aspects of their character.

Myrddin

nyarlothothep wrote: »

5. Trip: car mechanic in space, useless.

The ENT episode Divergence, would lay heavily towards the contrary He was a damn fine engineer, basic by TNG standards, but so was the technology.

Scotty - as you say, a solid hands on approach.
La Forge - also agree, very, very rounded.
O'Brien - here I disagree, the Chief was very gifted & had a natural way with tech. To me, much more than an all rounder
Torres - Good, but nowhere near the levels the rest meet

Myrddin

Indricotherium wrote: »

I find all of them to be very weak characters.

Chief O'Brien is about as far from a weal character as you can get in Trek. He had loads of great episodes, back story, & we got great insight into the character & family man that he was.

The episode Hard Time is ridiculously good.

Indricotherium

I accept that he is a rare gem of a startrek character that appears to have a consistent multi faceted personality and not just the odd obsession with pareisi squares or whatever suits for the odd episode.

Data has to be the ultimate spoof of a star trek character and he's one of the most popular! No personality at all and only one motivation.

A great tool though for exploring various human motivations.

Myrddin

Indricotherium wrote: »

Data has to be the ultimate spoof of a star trek character and he's one of the most popular! No personality at all and only one motivation.

Data has no personality?? He totally has though...

Sonics2k

I always had a soft spot for O'Brien.

He was always around, somewhere in the background working hard. Had a good story line and some fantastic episodes.

Geordi was always the lead of the engineering scene in TNG, but I always got the impression nothing would of ever happened without O'Brien.

Myrddin

Sonics2k wrote: »

but I always got the impression nothing would of ever happened without O'Brien.

"This station needs me", sums him up brilliantly

downwithpeace

Scotty - Have an issue with him then chances are you have an issue with Star trek.
La Forge - Good all rounder and not afraid to test new things, had Data to back him up a lot.
O'Brien - Probably the standout engineer in that he's got to work with different species technology melded together into a Space Station along with a fully war ready Star Ship.
Torres - A good engineer but tended to have more main cast members helping her then the other engineers.
Trip - Good engineer.

O'Brien really stood out when anything didn't go his way, he reacted as if the item was doing it just to annoy him.

IvySlayer

Hrmmm Excluding Torres and Trip it's hard to choose.

Scotty - Legendary, wrote the book on Engineering, but found it hard to adapt to new technology.

La Forge - Good engineer, knowledgeably in practically everything comes across as a bit rapey though with the ladies. His speciality is the warp drive, antimatter power and dilithium regulators. Wasn't easy going, tended to clash a lot with others also wasn't developed as much as the others too.

O'Brien - He wasn't Chief Engineer of DS9 he was Chief of Operations. His technical skills probably edge La Forge. Best quick fix person. Best personality too.

Torres - Meh....Seems to have average skills compared to the rest.

nyarlothothep

Hmm, I can't shake the feeling that O'Brien's qualification was like a hdip vs La Forges masters degree from Princeton. Scotty was just a handyman and not that great either, how many times did he say "sir the engines won't go any faster, that's all she can take."

GreenWolfe

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Hmm, I can't shake the feeling that O'Brien's qualification was like a hdip vs La Forges masters degree from Princeton. Scotty was just a handyman and not that great either, how many times did he say "sir the engines won't go any faster, that's all she can take."

I think that suits their respective environments though. La Forge had to work with lots of top research scientists and engineers that visited the Enterprise, but O'Brien had to integrate two completely different types of computer systems and keep the station from falling apart, and maybe occasionally host scientists (like the Cardassian scientists that helped set up the Gamma Quadrant comms array)

A huge knowledge of theory alone - not that LaForge was lazy, arguably he had better working conditions - wouldn't suit a half-destroyed station, and a lack of solid theory wouldn't be much good in the Federation flagship.

Of course, La Forge was an officer and O'Brien was a non-com. So O'Brien would have had less time in Starfleet Academy, and less opportunity for pure theory in any case.

downwithpeace

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

Of course, La Forge was an officer and O'Brien was a non-com. So O'Brien would have had less time in Starfleet Academy, and less opportunity for pure theory in any case.

He went on to teach there.

nyarlothothep

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

I think that suits their respective environments though. La Forge had to work with lots of top research scientists and engineers that visited the Enterprise, but O'Brien had to integrate two completely different types of computer systems and keep the station from falling apart, and maybe occasionally host scientists (like the Cardassian scientists that helped set up the Gamma Quadrant comms array)

A huge knowledge of theory alone - not that LaForge was lazy, arguably he had better working conditions - wouldn't suit a half-destroyed station, and a lack of solid theory wouldn't be much good in the Federation flagship.

Of course, La Forge was an officer and O'Brien was a non-com. So O'Brien would have had less time in Starfleet Academy, and less opportunity for pure theory in any case.

I agree but La Forge had just as much practical experience. It's like Edison and Telsa. Edison had no background in maths but Telsa did two years of college before dropping out and commented that maths (theory) was essential for good engineering. I would say Telsa was the better engineer by far. Not saying O' Brien isn't really good though, his background suited the frontier style and his experience demonstrates that one doesn't necessarily need institutional training/a golden stamp of approval from starfleet academy in order be a good engineer or anything else for that matter.

GreenWolfe

downwithpeace wrote: »

He went on to teach there.

That was just put in at the end of DS9, right? What I meant to say that he would have spent less time learning there when he was younger, and I assume had to learn even more things as necessary on the job - in contrast to LaForge who had a longer education before being placed in Starfleet.

It just means that their way of doing things might not be the same. As long as they both stuck to Starfleet procedures, then either of their approaches would be OK.

It's debatable how long he spent being a professor though. He'd be absolutely qualified to teach, seeing as he was responsible for training a lot of the junior officers. He really seems like the type of person who wouldn't be happy without a different engineering-style challenge every day. In non-canon, he left SA and joined his wife in helping to rebuild Cardassia after the war. In canon, hard to say.

@nyarlothothep: True, but I don't think I'd put Edison and O'Brien in the same category either. Edison was as much a businessman as he was an inventor, unlike O'Brien. Nog was able to help out with that side of things, I'd imagine. I'm probably a bit biased, due to that great Tesla comic on The Oatmeal.

downwithpeace

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

That was just put in at the end of DS9, right? What I meant to say that he would have spent less time learning there when he was younger, and I assume had to learn even more things as necessary on the job - in contrast to LaForge who had a longer education before being placed in Starfleet.

It just means that their way of doing things might not be the same. As long as they both stuck to Starfleet procedures, then either of their approaches would be OK.

It's debatable how long he spent being a professor though. He'd be absolutely qualified to teach, seeing as he was responsible for training a lot of the junior officers. He really seems like the type of person who wouldn't be happy without a different engineering-style challenge every day. In non-canon, he left SA and joined his wife in helping to rebuild Cardassia after the war. In canon, hard to say.

Yes it was added at the end of DS9.
I understood what you meant I just added to it as an added extra for O'Brien, DS9 does explain his jump from Solider to Chief in that he had ten minutes to get a transporter working or he and his squad would be over run by Cardassians during the Setlik III massacre. I don't think he attended the Academy but I could be wrong.

The non-canon both fits and doesn't with his character.

IvySlayer

How would have La Forge done on DS9? The Defiant?

Remember DS9 was not considered an attractive place to serve. I imagine they found it hard to recruit experienced engineers. Sisko was going to leave, at least until the whole Emissary business came along. Dax went because of Sisko, DS9 was not Bashirs first choice, but he did choose it because it was remote.

Chief O'Brien defintely attended the academy though, he was an officer in the early seasons of TNG. He was tactical officer on the USS Rutledge. The Enterprise he was tactical officer/helmsman/transporter chief. After he met Keiko I guess he chose to be an NCO. His wide-ranging experience and knowledge in almost everything Starfleet made him highly sought after.

With Molly and Keiko I guess he accepted a remote station on the edge of nowhere to settle down.

Myrddin

IvySlayer wrote: »

Chief O'Brien defintely attended the academy though

I don't think so, at least, not in the traditional manner. There's likely some fast-track training for non-commissioned officers. He might have had pips in the early seasons of TNG, but in canon he was never an officer.

Regards experience between La Forge & O'Brien, I'd say O'Brien would have far more experience. It was mentioned already, he fought in the Cardassian Wars, & in one scenario he had ten minutes to figure out a transporter to save a troop of men. Upon doing so, he was promoted to Tactical Officer on the Rutledge & as he said himself, "that's how I got the Gold suit". War experience, tactical experience, & engineering experience boxes all ticked.

Lest we forget, La Forge started out as "the blind man that flew the ship". He went from a junior Lieutenant helmsman to Chief Engineer overnight. I agree, as a warp engineer, he'd be more skilled that O'Brien...but as an engineer, O'Brein to me wins out. Don't forget he was also the Chief Engineer of the Defiant too.

How cannon explains O'Brein being a tactical officer without being an officer I've no idea, but I'm nearly certain he actually mentions he never attended the academy to someone during the course of DS9

downwithpeace

EnterNow wrote: »

How cannon explains O'Brein being a tactical officer without being an officer I've no idea, but I'm nearly certain he actually mentions he never attended the academy to someone during the course of DS9

That might be one of the early TNG mishaps, once characters had their background story settled the early episodes could contradict it, Data with expressions, Worf not knowing human history and so on.

Cookie_Monster

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I agree but La Forge had just as much practical experience. It's like Edison and Telsa. Edison had no background in maths but Telsa did two years of college before dropping out and commented that maths (theory) was essential for good engineering. I would say Telsa was the better engineer by far. Not saying O' Brien isn't really good though, his background suited the frontier style and his experience demonstrates that one doesn't necessarily need institutional training/a golden stamp of approval from starfleet academy in order be a good engineer or anything else for that matter.

there's me thinking WFT does Edison from DS9 have to do with Tesla :o

somuj

O'Brien knew warp theory inside out. He got the entire DS9 station to fly from Bajor to the Celestial temple.

helimachoptor

For me its between LaForge and O'Brien and tbh it comes down to the episodes where O'Brien is in the virtual prison with the green guy and when he's undercover in the Orion syndicate, both 2 of the best episodes across all trek for me tbh.

Myrddin

somuj wrote: »

O'Brien knew warp theory inside out. He got the entire DS9 station to fly from Bajor to the Celestial temple.

What had that got to do with warp field theory? He lowered the stations inertial mass & used thrusters to move it...whilst kicking the control panel

Goldstein

Everytime I glance at the thread title I say it in Beastie Boys fashion from Ch-Check-it Out - EN-GIN-EEER! Then I think of the Prometheus and cry a little bit :pac:

"Visionary" and especially his practical skills in "Whispers" brings O'Brien over the line in front for me.

Sonics2k

helimachoptor wrote: »

For me its between LaForge and O'Brien and tbh it comes down to the episodes where O'Brien is in the virtual prison with the green guy and when he's undercover in the Orion syndicate, both 2 of the best episodes across all trek for me tbh.

I have to admit this is the clincher for me too.

I was a big fan of both characters, though as I child I had a little biased love for O'Brien, he was Irish after all :pac:

I'd really say I grew more towards O'Brien though, especially with his character development, and while Geordi was fantastic on the Enterprise, it seemed that O'Brien could get just about anything to fly if he really needed it to.