Why does Dublin Bus suck so much?!

twinge

Seriously.
Posted Timetables are not even suggestions, they are a figment of the poor commuter's imagination. Those new "real time" displays are never accurate...buses that are not listed on them regularly cruise by bus stops, expected buses keep upping the expected time as opposed to decreasing (eg, Bus number x 3 minutes....4 minutes...5 minutes)
The worst part is, you're at the bus stop with foreigners who get such a great impression of Ireland from our wonderful public transportation system.
:mad:

Judgement Day

You don't know you're living pal - you should have been around in the 1970/80s.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48073612@N04/4587652210/

cormy

whinge Seriously.
Posted Timetables are not even suggestions, they are a figment of the poor commuter's imagination. Those new "real time" displays are never accurate...buses that are not listed on them regularly cruise by bus stops, expected buses keep upping the expected time as opposed to decreasing (eg, Bus number x 3 minutes....4 minutes...5 minutes)
The worst part is, you're at the bus stop with foreigners who get such a great impression of Ireland from our wonderful public transportation system.
:mad:



Fixed your username.

Who peed in your cornflakes by the way? Are you seriously saying that the real time displays are never accurate - as in you have, never, ever, had a bus arrive on time, as displayed?

KD345

twinge wrote: »

Seriously.
Posted Timetables are not even suggestions, they are a figment of the poor commuter's imagination. Those new "real time" displays are never accurate...buses that are not listed on them regularly cruise by bus stops, expected buses keep upping the expected time as opposed to decreasing (eg, Bus number x 3 minutes....4 minutes...5 minutes)
The worst part is, you're at the bus stop with foreigners who get such a great impression of Ireland from our wonderful public transportation system.
:mad:

I generally find the RTPI service reliable and convenient.

It's because the displays are real time you have these issues. If a bus is travelling along its route at a certain pace, the stops ahead predict when it's due to arrive. However, if something happens to the bus at a previous stop (busy stop loadings/passenger incident/traffic problem) then the stops ahead adjust their real time arrival accordingly.

Mr Simpson

Cuts to their subsidy, combined with a reduction in passenger numbers surely aren't going to help with the quality of their service OP. I think we're going to have to get used to crap public transport for the time being. Even if the government tried to privatise Dublin Bus, they wouldn't get many takers unless they agreed to cut unprofitable routes (imho)

twinge

I can't believe you people are defending such a crap public service! @cormy, go back under your bridge, you troll. If you don't have a car and use public transportation regularly, you know how consistently unrealiable Dublin Bus is.
Yes, I regularly experience misinformation from the real time displays, not to mention the actual listed time tables! All I get from Dublin Bus is wimpy excuses of "unforseeable events" - rain and traffic are apparently acts of God!

LeinsterDub

twinge wrote: »

I can't believe you people are defending such a crap public service! @cormy, go back under your bridge, you troll. If you don't have a car and use public transportation regularly, you know how consistently unrealiable Dublin Bus is.
Yes, I regularly experience misinformation from the real time displays, not to mention the actual listed time tables! All I get from Dublin Bus is wimpy excuses of "unforseeable events" - rain and traffic are apparently acts of God!

So they've gone to never been accurate to some misinformation. Quite an improvement by DB in the last 2 days.

twinge

Wow. Seriously.
You people care more about being smart-mouths in online forums than show any interest or pride in your public services.

bk

As a person who doesn't own a car and takes DB a couple of times a week. I find the RTPI to be 95% reliable.

Certainly much better then you describe. However I agree that it can be improved on.

Africa

The RTPI isnt perfect, but its a lot, lot better having the not-always-working system than the one we had before (i.e. NONE).

What gets me about it is the price and the cuts and the removal of entire lines, and the time and cost it took to do the RTPI. I have no doubt that some people have lined their pockets well with the money that was set aside for it over a decade ago.

lil5

It depends a lot on the route/corridor you're using.

If you're on the 7 route and you happen to be close the either terminus you'd experience frequent RTPI hiccups (buses vanishing off displays, phantom buses not being displayed). The RTPI might be reasonable accurate once the bus actually runs, but the difference between the timetabled services and actual run services (end-to-end) is where the fairy tale stuff begins.

Bunching and service gaps of 30+ minutes are regular issues on the route. If it weren't for the 4, the 7 would even be worse.


If you're happen to be on the 46A corridor you might have more luck between Foxrock Church and town as there are so many buses.

If you're hoping to get an outbound 145 from Leeson St they could well be accurately reflected on the RTPI, but after 2 or 3 sail past you it's not much help. At the Heuston terminus the RTPI doesn't reflect reality for the 145 at all. Shows buses, counts down to due, but no buses show up. As they keep disappearing off the display you wish you were living along the LUAS line.

The RTPI has certainly made a positive difference, but it's usefulness for some is restricted by the underlying operations.

noelfirl

lil5 wrote: »

At the Heuston terminus the RTPI doesn't reflect reality for the 145 at all. Shows buses, counts down to due, but no buses show up. As they keep disappearing off the display you wish you were living along the LUAS line.

Speaking of Heuston, seems a bit odd to have installed a pole and display at the route 90 stop, and a pole (but no display, yet) at the equivalent 90 stop on Bachelors Walk, but then to put up this on the website -

The route 90 service is not showing on the signs?
The route 90 bus is not appearing on the 2 RTPI signs it stops at because the route 90 services are operated by extra buses which are only allocated on the day.

markpb

It's worth bearing in mind that, for most people, RPTI doesn't make their journey any better, it just tells them how long they have to wait. It doesn't make their bus route more reliable, more frequent or less full (if capacity is a problem). It's a huge improvement and I love it but it doesn't make the underlying system any better. Also, the fact that it assumes all buses are on time even if the incoming arrival is late is a fatal flaw for people using a bus stop near the terminus.

Losty Dublin

twinge wrote: »

Wow. Seriously.
You people care more about being smart-mouths in online forums than show any interest or pride in your public services.

Twinge, maybe you can tell us first hand about your experiences instead of sounding like a troll. What times of day? What route/routes are you using that the RTPI is letting you down so bady? Where are you going to? What timetables are wrong and why? Why don't you consider bad traffic/rain in the city to be reason enough to delay buses? How can it be improved?

From my own experience, I find it almost 100% accurate to within 1 minute en route, and this is both from the on street displays and the phone app. I've seen maybe once where a bus go by when it was displayed and that's out of maybe 600+ trips a year that I make. By and large, bus lanes are making huge differences for the majority of routes and the new clock face timetables are generally working well and are simpler to understand as well, in terms of when to expect departures from terminus stops.

SteM

bk wrote: »

As a person who doesn't own a car and takes DB a couple of times a week. I find the RTPI to be 95% reliable.

I really only use it on one route but I find it to be unreliable, especially the main stop I use which is the 27 on Hawkins Street. it often shows busses that just don't arrive. It's an awfully unreliable route in general though.

KD345

twinge wrote: »

I can't believe you people are defending such a crap public service! @cormy, go back under your bridge, you troll. If you don't have a car and use public transportation regularly, you know how consistently unrealiable Dublin Bus is.
Yes, I regularly experience misinformation from the real time displays, not to mention the actual listed time tables! All I get from Dublin Bus is wimpy excuses of "unforseeable events" - rain and traffic are apparently acts of God!

You're very unfortunate. Like I said, I find the RTPI generally reliable. I also find the majority of buses run to timetable. Yes, there are occasions when a bus doesn't show, but I certainly wouldn't say it's "consistently unreliable". Far from it. If it's a particular stop you have problems with, you should contact the NTA or Dublin Bus.

On "wimpy excuses", surely you can understand that certain events will effect how buses run. Football matches, protest marches, traffic accidents, weather etc. all impact on running times. How often do you hear motorists moan that traffic is always bad in heavy rain, buses are not magic, they're stuck in that same traffic.

It would be wonderful if every bus could run perfect every single time, but I understand traffic problems happen, buses break down, drivers get sick, passengers disrupt services etc. so I tend to not get too angry when I'm disrupted occasionally.

Vahevala

I find the RTPI quite unreliable, I am sick of seeing buses either not appear on it at all or go from 10 mins down to just 2 so you are never quite sure when the buses will arrive or will vanish from the display altogether...

Losty Dublin

Vahevala wrote: »

I find the RTPI quite unreliable, I am sick of seeing buses either not appear on it at all or go from 10 mins down to just 2 so you are never quite sure when the buses will arrive or will vanish from the display altogether...

That's the converse opposite of the experience of the majority of us. What bus routes are you using that are unreliable?

markpb

Losty Dublin wrote: »

That's the converse opposite of the experience of the majority of us. What bus routes are you using that are unreliable?

My wife and her colleagues reported problems with RPTI at Clonskeagh on the 11 northbound. Buses would countdown from ten mins away to one, stay like that for a while and then disappear. I have a feeling that RTPI isn't at fault here - like I said earlier, if it's not aware of linked departures, you'll see this a lot close to the start or on unreliable routes.

Lapin

I've lived in a number of cities around Europe, including Dublin, and used buses in all of them.

I can say from my own experience, that nowhere was the service as unreliable as Dublin.

Speaking of service, Dublin also has a far higher proportion of frustrating buses "As Seirbhis" than anywhere else.

It is exceptionally rare to see an out of service bus in London.
Why are they so common in Dublin ?
It must waste a shítload of money to have so many empty buses running.

cormy

twinge wrote: »

I can't believe you people are defending such a crap public service! @cormy, go back under your bridge, you troll. If you don't have a car and use public transportation regularly, you know how consistently unrealiable Dublin Bus is.
Yes, I regularly experience misinformation from the real time displays, not to mention the actual listed time tables! All I get from Dublin Bus is wimpy excuses of "unforseeable events" - rain and traffic are apparently acts of God!

OK, I'm genuinely going to leave my 'smart-mouth' in the cave as you recommend Twinge, and give you the benefit of my experience, since you started this thread and solicited peoples' opinions: I take the bus to/from town about 3/4 times per week. Otherwise I drive. The RTPI is accurate in my experience on my route and has been every time that I've taken note of it. Hey - maybe I'm just lucky - however, based on the more helpful posts from others, I accept that it is capable of being wrong/inaccurate sometimes, depending on the route or other circumstances.

I don't think you should condemn every other poster who says the service is good just because their experience doesn't tally with yours. We don't live in the 'world according to Twinge'.

Victor

cormy wrote: »

Fixed your username.

Behave.

Carawaystick

markpb wrote: »

Buses would countdown from ten mins away to one, stay like that for a while and then disappear. I have a feeling that RTPI isn't at fault here - like I said earlier, if it's not aware of linked departures, you'll see this a lot close to the start or on unreliable routes.

I think you're being generous here,
This is a new system not some upgraded legacy thing. If it was tracking busses in real time, it should know thee is no bus ready to depart.
A decent failure mode analysis would have caught this

I had an issue with the 17:30 33X yesterday, only arrived at about 17:43, but rtpi only showed the 18:00 bus time

strassenwo!f

It was always a puzzle why, in the years before RTPI, Dublin Bus were unable to provide stop-specific timetables, instead relying on the times that a bus left the starting point as the only "information" available to the customer at other stops along the route.

Even though they must have had a vast collection of data on the times it took buses to go from starting point to terminus.

Thus a customer at a stop in Rathmines was and is faced with a paper timetable with the time of departure from Hawkins Street (for example) as their only guide to what time the bus may arrive. Meaningless and useless "information".

Now that there's all this information from the RTPI system in a form which can be fed directly into a timetabling system, it is a continuing mystery why stop-specific timetables have not already appeared, and don't seem to even be on the horizon at all.:mad:

bc dub

I agree that the RTPI thing is 95% accurate, and I get up to 8 buses daily on weekdays. Can't they have real time google map placements on a map of where the buses are exactly?

My main gripe with Dublin Bus is when the drivers refuse to allow people on who may have "Just" missed their stop. Young, Old, Male, Female...I've seen them all be refused entry for some strange reason or another. A female bus driver recently would not open the doors for me after she literally pulled out no more then 2mtrs from the stop lane, into a traffic jam, and didn't move. Similarily I saw a granny visibly shaking her bag as she was scuttling along and the bus driver stopped to let 2/3 people on, and didn't wait for her. He had to have seen her, people on the bus did, but he took off just as she got to the rear of it.

/rant

cleveland browne

Carawaystick wrote: »

markpb wrote: »

Buses would countdown from ten mins away to one, stay like that for a while and then disappear. I have a feeling that RTPI isn't at fault here - like I said earlier, if it's not aware of linked departures, you'll see this a lot close to the start or on unreliable routes.

I think you're being generous here,
This is a new system not some upgraded legacy thing. If it was tracking busses in real time, it should know thee is no bus ready to depart.
A decent failure mode analysis would have caught this

I had an issue with the 17:30 33X yesterday, only arrived at about 17:43, but rtpi only showed the 18:00 bus time

Part of the problem with rtpi is how you deal with departures, for example should it appear on the system when the driver has set up the machine and is ready to go, or should you show it on the system because there is a scheduled departure and you presume it is going to happen.

Both approaches have problems with them, if you only show when driver is set up and ready to go then you show gaps on the service that won't actually exist, if you go with the model of presuming it will be there you have buses disappear of the system.

One of the problems is the system does not seem to be able to track when an bus is running late on the proceeding journey and transfer it onto the following journey. So for example it will know bus x is running 15 minutes late but will still show it as departing terminus at correct time for next departure. So it will count down to departure time then disappear.

AlekSmart

bc dub wrote: »

My main gripe with Dublin Bus is when the drivers refuse to allow people on who may have "Just" missed their stop. Young, Old, Male, Female...I've seen them all be refused entry for some strange reason or another. A female bus driver recently would not open the doors for me after she literally pulled out no more then 2mtrs from the stop lane, into a traffic jam, and didn't move. Similarily I saw a granny visibly shaking her bag as she was scuttling along and the bus driver stopped to let 2/3 people on, and didn't wait for her. He had to have seen her, people on the bus did, but he took off just as she got to the rear of it.

/rant

As long as there are Buses and Bus Stops there will be "Issues" such as the above.

Perception,expectation,and amazingly human nature itself all play a role in each and every occurence,some are won,some are lost in the minds of the individuals concerned.

From a busdrivers perspective,now reinforced by the ever expanding scope of both automatic and maunal monitoring,the clear and concise rules laid down by both company procedure and the Road Traffic Acts will increasingly be adhered to.

For aeons the "traditional" view of Ireland and it's people was of a culture which was none too bound up in oul Rules n Regulations.

This allowed our lives to be freewheelin and unfettered by the strictures which made other cultures appear dour and restrained in comparison to the wild raparees of Ireland....

The past is a different country indeed.....:)

Just as an aside here....2 metres is well beyond any safety margin for "borderline" consideration.

Without knowing the specifics of the case,it would appear to me that the Busdriver concerned should be commended for adhereing to the operational regulations in place to ensure safe access and journey for everybody.

In the second case I would always be reluctant to say any driver "Had to have seen" anything,as in the working environment of Busdriving there are several other elements all being monitored during a Bus-Stop.

With the Bus length being anything up to 11.9 mtrs,whatever may be happening outside the immediate area of the entrance door may,or may not,be part of the manouvering assessment carried out by the driver.

Every Busdriver is monitored at every stop by a constantly cahnging group of passengers,each with a different set of requirements,opinions,preconceptions and biases...very often these are at total variance with those of the person on the footpath/road,be they an intending pasenger or not.

The Busdriver must engage constantly engage in the juggling act of satisfying as many of these disparate demands as possible....sometimes it works,other times it does'nt.

However,generally the Busdriver,in order to satisfy one elements demands,has to frustrate the demands of the other....King Solomon might have made an excellent Busdriver...:)

mikemac1

bc dub wrote: »

My main gripe with Dublin Bus is when the drivers refuse to allow people on who may have "Just" missed their stop. Young, Old, Male, Female...I've seen them all be refused entry for some strange reason or another. A female bus driver recently would not open the doors for me after she literally pulled out no more then 2mtrs from the stop lane, into a traffic jam, and didn't move.

Blame the solicitors

Kamikaze cyclists and people on scooters see that gap and will scoot up through it

2 metres? They only need that half that room
I know as I zipped up and down Dublin streets on my 50cc scooter for years :cool:

Anything happens the driver faces the sack and Dublin Bus will be getting some serious letter in the post.

It's not a big issue for a driver to open the door and let people hop on and off.

The passenger will appreciate it but that passenger won't pay the drivers lost wages after the disciplinary meeting and dismissal

And despite all the talk of the mighty powerful unions on boards.ie, drivers do get sacked

Protect thyself and cover thy ass

The_Wrecker

bc dub wrote: »

I agree that the RTPI thing is 95% accurate, and I get up to 8 buses daily on weekdays. Can't they have real time google map placements on a map of where the buses are exactly?

My main gripe with Dublin Bus is when the drivers refuse to allow people on who may have "Just" missed their stop. Young, Old, Male, Female...I've seen them all be refused entry for some strange reason or another. A female bus driver recently would not open the doors for me after she literally pulled out no more then 2mtrs from the stop lane, into a traffic jam, and didn't move. Similarily I saw a granny visibly shaking her bag as she was scuttling along and the bus driver stopped to let 2/3 people on, and didn't wait for her. He had to have seen her, people on the bus did, but he took off just as she got to the rear of it.

/rant

Sadly we get an advisory from the Admin manager for the first time we get seen opening the doors after starting to make movements outwards.

Second time we get returned to the training school for 7hrs driving an old decker around the city. The driver is assessed in all areas of bus driving and retrained were required.

Maybe those that i have left behind may have some understanding?? If i open the doors, the following Thursdays is spent in interview (20mins). Followed by back to school (7hrs).

Lapin

The_Wrecker wrote: »

Second time we get returned to the training school for 7hrs driving an old decker around the city.

Ah, so that explains the high number of As Seirbhis busses in Dublin.

markpb

strassenwo!f wrote: »

It was always a puzzle why, in the years before RTPI, Dublin Bus were unable to provide stop-specific timetables, instead relying on the times that a bus left the starting point as the only "information" available to the customer at other stops along the route.

Even though they must have had a vast collection of data on the times it took buses to go from starting point to terminus.

Laziness. Most cities have had stop-specific timetables for years. Los Angeles, with its renowned traffic problems, had them over a decade ago and they were almost always incredibly accurate. I'm sure someone will be along presently to tell us why Dublin is different though.

strassenwo!f

markpb wrote: »

Laziness. Most cities have had stop-specific timetables for years. Los Angeles, with its renowned traffic problems, had them over a decade ago and they were almost always incredibly accurate. I'm sure someone will be along presently to tell us why Dublin is different though.

Laziness is very possibly a factor. There may be others.

When I raised this question with a number of people (apparently) in the know several years ago, the following was suggested:

If there are stop-specific timetables along the route, people all along the route notice if particular buses don't arrive at an appropriate time.

If things don't go (approximately) to plan, this would focus attention on the reasons for the discrepancy, and might lead to investigations into whether a particular service had actually left the starting point. DB's unions might then need to get involved.

cleveland browne

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Laziness is very possibly a factor. There may be others.

When I raised this question with a number of people (apparently) in the know several years ago, the following was suggested:

If there are stop-specific timetables along the route, people all along the route notice if particular buses don't arrive at an appropriate time.

If things don't go (approximately) to plan, this would focus attention on the reasons for the discrepancy, and might lead to investigations into whether a particular service had actually left the starting point. DB's unions might then need to get involved.

L

B0jangles

I used to get the 45 at around 8.25 -8.30 from Bray to Deansgrange, until the line was eliminated and "replaced" by the 84/84a.

I say "replaced" because in my opinion, this modified service is a complete failure. When it was started there was a press release saying that it would operate a strong peak time service.

What do we get?

One Blackrock-bound bus that leaves Bray station at 7.35 a.m., and one which leave the station at 8.50. So for people who want to get to work for 9.00 (i.e. most people) it's either incredibly early or far too late.

There was an 84 to Blackrock that left the Bray station stop at around 8.10 but it only operated for a couple of weeks before disappearing forever.

Similarly, I was waiting at Bray station for a 45a towards Ballywaltrim last Saturday. I use the Dublin Bus android app to check the bus times and watched the bus apparently approach via said app. When it got to "Due" a 45a did show up - but it was going the opposite direction. The bus to Ballywaltrim just disappeared.

AlekSmart

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Laziness is very possibly a factor. There may be others.

When I raised this question with a number of people (apparently) in the know several years ago, the following was suggested:

If there are stop-specific timetables along the route, people all along the route notice if particular buses don't arrive at an appropriate time.

If things don't go (approximately) to plan, this would focus attention on the reasons for the discrepancy, and might lead to investigations into whether a particular service had actually left the starting point. DB's unions might then need to get involved.

Why,Strassenwolf,would "DB Unions" need to get involved in such an issue ?

In my 30+ years in and around CIE/DB union involvement at this specific level is largely unheard of.

Taking a Bus Out-Of-Service without authorisation remains a dismissable offence under the companys Disciplinary & Grieviance procedures.

However,it apparently remains the firm belief of some (:eek:), that individual Busdrivers can,at a whim,decide to baz off.....it may be an attractive prospect at times,but the reality is that ANY Out-of-Service running either scheduled or controller regulated is carried out under Supervisory Instruction.

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

Laziness. Most cities have had stop-specific timetables for years. Los Angeles, with its renowned traffic problems, had them over a decade ago and they were almost always incredibly accurate. I'm sure someone will be along presently to tell us why Dublin is different though.

Nope Markpb,I'll agree with you that Dublin and Los Angeles are virtually identical Public Transport terms.....(I've never been to LA so I'm accepting your word for it...;) )

However,we,or should I say those with enough interest in the subject now have an opportunity to voice their opinions through the NTA's public consultation process now underway...

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/public-consultations/current/

With the NTA now firmly in the driving seat,the long accepted practice of jumping around on the sideline has ended...IF the NTA is serious about this stuff it will be worthwhile to enter into their process.

thomasj

At least five times in the last week i've seen buses fly past me displaying "entering service"

Bazzer2

thomasj wrote: »

At least five times in the last week i've seen buses fly past me displaying "entering service"

Pure window dressing. It looks better for the image if a bus is deemed to be on the way to do something useful, instead of just transporting a pesky driver back to the garage for a break.

AlekSmart

Bazzer2 wrote: »

Pure window dressing. It looks better for the image if a bus is deemed to be on the way to do something useful, instead of just transporting a pesky driver back to the garage for a break.

More nonsense,and in both official languages too...all down to market-research performed by consultants which dictates that all negativity first has to be passed off in as positive a terminology as possible.

This theory appears to be based on a radio broadcast by Japanese Emperor Hirohito in the immediate aftermath of the Hiroshima bomb.

The Emperor told his people that,"The course of the war has taken a turn,not necessarily to our advantage"....perhaps the understatement of the Century or was it the words of a PR advisor...?

Iwannahurl

I have no experience of DB's "real-time" information system, good, bad or indifferent, but I really like this bi-lingual gem in today's Irish Times letters page, so I thought I'd share it.

A chara, – I sympathise and agree with Donal Lyons (June 20th) and his trials and tribulations with Dublin Bus’s Real Time Passenger Information System.

However, thankfully there is also a version in our native tongue (Fíor-Ama Córas Faisnéise do Phaisinéirí), so we can now count down the nóiméad until the bus is déanach, both in English and as Gaeilge. Interestingly, the screens do not show an t-am, so it’s impossible to work out exactly how déanach the bus is when it finally arrives at your stad.

Another feature of the system is the wheelchair symbol beside each route, which, given the regularity with which My Lyons’s phantom 14 buses appeared and disappeared from the system, probably suggests a quicker mode of transport to his destination.

Apparently there are rumblings of more route cuts as Dublin Bus continues to lose money (as well as phantom buses!) And for those who think Dublin Bus’s much (self) hyped Real Time App is the answer, its lucky you weren’t on Dame Street recently, or you would still be waiting for the (virtual) 68 bus – a no-show meant nearly a 90 min gap between buses. Waiting for Godot, perhaps, but definitely not Appy Days! – Is mise,

Here's the original letter the above correspondent referred to:

Sir, – I have the misfortune that my usual bus-stop in Nassau Street has a Dublin Bus “real time” noticeboard. I’ve studied its behaviour since first introduced, and it offers much the same interest as watching a slug trying to crawl up it in the rain. A bus is apparently due in four minutes, this crawls up to three minutes, immediately slides back down to five minutes, crawls back up, slides down several more times, and eventually arrives on average 100-150 per cent later than initially predicted.

In addition, it’s quite common that “phantom” buses appear on the noticeboard, but are not actually running. On the evening of June 12th, the system excelled itself. When I arrived, a bus was scheduled to arrive in two minutes, this became “due” and then moved off the noticeboard without ever arriving. The next bus was due in eight minutes, so I continued to wait and duly watched this work its way down to one minute, become “due”, and also disappear without every having appeared. Ditto for the third and fourth phantom 14s! After one hour of waiting, a bus finally came.

For at least the Number 14 route, the “real time” system is shambolic, seemingly designed to lend a spurious air of efficiency to the service. It is a complete waste of money, merely adds to passenger uncertainty, and should be immediately scrapped. Perhaps those Irish pubs buying our electronic voting machines could be interested in a system which deems ideal for justifying late closing? – Yours, etc,

And here's another witty response:

Sir, – I’m afraid the information supplied by Donal Lyons (June 20th) is just as inaccurate as the information given on the “real time” bus-stop about which he complains.

He tells of his experience that the noticeboard indicated his bus was due in four minutes, later changing to three before immediately showing five, followed by other changes. He observes the bus arrives “100-150 per cent later than initially predicted”. This is mathematically impossible. The shortest delay, the lowest point of his range, taken from the time the notice indicated five minutes would mean the bus arrived 10 minutes after that point. However immediately before five minutes was displayed the information given was three minutes, making a delay from that point greater than 233 per cent. While the data he gives is clearly incorrect he has given me the idea of a great way to pass the time by playing with simple maths as I await the arrival of my bus. – Yours, etc,

LXFlyer

There are two specific problems with the 14 that I'm aware of that cause the predictive times to be off:

1) Some (by no means all) buses have driver changes on George's Quay which will add to the predicted time

2) There can be serious traffic congestion between Connolly Station and Burgh Quay which means that buses can take longer than they are predicted to take.

AlekSmart

RTPI and it's associated AVL component are often seen as being magically simplified by the existence of the Computer and other exotic mechanisms.....however nothing is ever as simple as ity may first seem...here's a pair of interesting documents from each side of the Atlantic.....

http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/jpodocs/repts_te/13845.html

http://www.rtig.org.uk/web/docs/PDF/Downloads/RTIGS006-1.0-National-Strategy.pdf

It's not easy reading,but it serves to underline the complexity of the thing....

However,it's always worth seeing how good ol Lothian Buses do it....

http://www.smartcities.info/files/Smart_Cities_Research_Brief_19_Mobile_Apps_for_bus_users_in_Edinburgh.pdf

Basically there's a lot to be said for a pre-existing Integrated system to begin with...as proven when FirstGroup upped and left the Edinburgh dancefloor