exotic animals

celtictiger32

does anybody know if a special license is needed for exotic animals in ireland, ive heard of several owners of large 'wildcats' and i know there were crocodiles on sale also in dublin at one stage.

kildare.17hmr

Think you can have pretty much anything you want without licence

celtictiger32

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Think you can have pretty much anything you want without licence

legally or just as long as nobody knows?

kildare.17hmr

Legally afaik, dont take that as gospel tho!! What you lookin to get?

celtictiger32

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Legally afaik, dont take that as gospel tho!! What you lookin to get?

nothing personally, a friend of mine has plans for a kind of farm, but not with the usual irish farm animals. hes also a mad mike tyson fan (tyson has a pet tiger) and would love to own a tiger, i didnt think he could without certain licenses etc but maybe theres hope for him yet...:D

SillyMangoX

Get your friend to watch Fatal Attractions, I think it's on DMAX most nights, would put anyone off keeping a tiger!!

Hellrazer

No laws here at all.The only thing your friend would have a problem with is if the species is on the Cites protected lists.

In that case he`d need a Cites licence to import the animal.Other than that anything goes yet across the border you need a DWA(Dangerous wild animal) licence to keep anthing remotely dangerous.

It takes years of experience to get one as far as I can remember.Ridiculous system down here and until someone is killed by a Cobra or eaten by a Tiger its not going to change.

celtictiger32

Hellrazer wrote: »

No laws here at all.The only thing your friend would have a problem with is if the species is on the Cites protected lists.

In that case he`d need a Cites licence to import the animal.Other than that anything goes yet across the border you need a DWA(Dangerous wild animal) licence to keep anthing remotely dangerous.

It takes years of experience to get one as far as I can remember.Ridiculous system down here and until someone is killed by a Cobra or eaten by a Tiger its not going to change.

very surprised at that i was convinced he'd need some sort of license. is that cites protected list a worldwide thing or irish? and is it online?

REPTILEDAN88

You need the DWAL up north but its not really that hard to get provided you have your own property to build enclosures, alot of money etc and I know of a few keepers up north who have everything from Rattlesnakes to Tigers. There are Venomous Snakes, Crocodilians and Primates and some Exotic Cat species too that I know of too among other animals.

Getting Exotic animals is not hard but not everyone is willing to assist feed baby/sick Cobra etc when the need arises and vets too, some may not be willing to help you with a ill Cobra etc. Cites papers are not much of a problem either in most circumstances, sure my Fiji Iguana requires them and I have them too. You need papers/a licence for keeping native Birds of Prey as far as I know too and for livestock too (herd numbers).
If you have the money getting almost any animal over here is easy
enough but thats not always a good thing either as a fair few are bought on impulse or by people without a clue on their care.

celtictiger32

REPTILEDAN88 wrote: »

You need the DWAL up north but its not really that hard to get provided you have your own property to build enclosures, alot of money etc and I know of a few keepers up north who have everything from Rattlesnakes to Tigers. There are Venomous Snakes, Crocodilians and Primates and some Exotic Cat species too that I know of too among other animals.

Getting Exotic animals is not hard but not everyone is willing to assist feed baby/sick Cobra etc when the need arises and vets too, some may not be willing to help you with a ill Cobra etc. Cites papers are not much of a problem either in most circumstances, sure my Fiji Iguana requires them and I have them too. You need papers/a licence for keeping native Birds of Prey as far as I know too and for livestock too (herd numbers).
If you have the money getting almost any animal over here is easy
enough but thats not always a good thing either as a fair few are bought on impulse or by people without a clue on their care.

thanks, in fairness to him hes well up on the care part and that, maybe he's not as mad as i thought he was

Hellrazer

celtictiger32 wrote: »

very surprised at that i was convinced he'd need some sort of license. is that cites protected list a worldwide thing or irish? and is it online?

Heres the official Cites page.
http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/species.php

There are basically 3 levels of Cites protection.

Levels 1 are species on the verge of becoming extinct and is the more important list.
The site is worth a read.

celtictiger32

Hellrazer wrote: »

Heres the official Cites page.
http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/species.php

There are basically 3 levels of Cites protection.

Levels 1 are species on the verge of becoming extinct and is the more important list.
The site is worth a read.

suppose if it were tied into some kind of breeding programme, that would help

interesting website aswell

loveisdivine

Most exotic animals have been stolen from the wild. Or the animals they have been bred from originally were taken from the wild.

What makes you or your friend think you can ever provide a habitat anywhere near similar to their natural wild ones?

Unless this farm is going to be a sanctuary for wild animals that have been imported by morons and subsequently not cared for properly, then I really cannot understand why your friend would do this, or why you support it.

I know I'm coming across very angry here but this is something I really feel strongly about.

So many species are now threatened because of the exotic pet trade, it's sickening.

Why would you ever want to take an animal from its natural habitat and shove it in a cage or enclosure?

Why can't we just leave things be?

Hellrazer

loveisdivine wrote: »

Most exotic animals have been stolen from the wild. Or the animals they have been bred from originally were taken from the wild.

While partially true a lot of the species on the Cites lists would be extinct already if it wasnt for the fact that captive breeding has effectively saved the species.

What makes you or your friend think you can ever provide a habitat anywhere near similar to their natural wild ones?

Thats quite easy really.Take for example a snake or tarantula.A Tarantulas roaming area is usually only a few feet.As long as you can simulate the heat and humidity needed then that Tarantula will more than likely live longer than it would in the wild.Likewise mosts snakes barely move in the wild to conserve energy.A couple of feeds a month with the right conditions and it will thrive.

Unless this farm is going to be a sanctuary for wild animals that have been imported by morons and subsequently not cared for properly, then I really cannot understand why your friend would do this, or why you support it.

I agree-If its going to be based on rescuing these animals then yeah go for it.They need rehoming/rehousing agencies similar to cats and dogs.

I know I'm coming across very angry here but this is something I really feel strongly about.

Likewise-The ILLEGAL trade is decimating populations of rare species however the genuine breeders are also saving species.There are a couple of species of Boa that are literally never found in the wild anymore but have huge populations in the pet trade.

Why would you ever want to take an animal from its natural habitat and shove it in a cage or enclosure?

Why can't we just leave things be?

Thats a whole other thread to be honest.

dodderangler

I know person that has raccoons and skunks and had a lynx and had to get licence for the lynx not for other two
As for birds of prey I had to get a licence for the Harris hawk and for the kestrel

loveisdivine

Hellrazer wrote: »

While partially true a lot of the species on the Cites lists would be extinct already if it wasnt for the fact that captive breeding has effectively saved the species.




Thats quite easy really.Take for example a snake or tarantula.A Tarantulas roaming area is usually only a few feet.As long as you can simulate the heat and humidity needed then that Tarantula will more than likely live longer than it would in the wild.Likewise mosts snakes barely move in the wild to conserve energy.A couple of feeds a month with the right conditions and it will thrive.




I agree-If its going to be based on rescuing these animals then yeah go for it.They need rehoming/rehousing agencies similar to cats and dogs.




Likewise-The ILLEGAL trade is decimating populations of rare species however the genuine breeders are also saving species.There are a couple of species of Boa that are literally never found in the wild anymore but have huge populations in the pet trade.



Thats a whole other thread to be honest.

Fair enough, some people have helped save a species that would not have survived on its own. But in fairness it was probably humans that put it into that dangerous position in the first place.

I think a tarantula or snake would be an ok pet, if you could realistically meet its needs. But the OP mentioned a tiger! Nobody can realistically meet a tigers needs.

With regards to the illegal trade, how do you think those animals become illegal to trade with/have as pets? Because at some stage it was perfectly legal and people took advantage. I'm sure it was legal at some stage to hunt rhinos and elephants for their horns, and look where thats got us!
Just because its not illegal doesnt mean you should do it.

kildare.17hmr

If you have the space and The money of course you could meet the needs of a tiger. Good enclosure large enough for them with a good supply of food and a good vet is all that would be needed

loveisdivine

^It actually saddens me and worries me that you really think that.

Here is a list of the places where tigers still currently live. Ireland is similar to them in zero ways.

Bangladesh
Bhutan
Cambodia
China
India
Indonesia (Sumatra)
Lao PDR
Malaysia
Myanmar
Nepal
Russia
Thailand
Viet Nam

Not only that but to suggest that you could ever have a big enough enclosure is ridiculous -

http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/endangered_species/tigers/about_tigers/breeding_family/

Individual tigers have a large territory. Where prey is in abundance, such as in Chitwan National Park in Nepal, territories range from 10 to 20km² for females and 30 to 70km² for males. In Russia, where the density of prey is much lower, territories vary in size from 200 to 400km² for females and 800 to 1,000km² for males

People that think they can provide a fulfilling natural life for a tiger out of the wild are kidding themselves. They are doing it purely for their own benefit and not at all for the tiger, if they cared about the tiger at all they would leave it where it is.

kildare.17hmr

Do you not agree with zoos then ether? We are not talking about wild animals we are talking about animals bred in captivity. An elclosure of an acre imo would be plenty big, where would the tiger need to go if it was getting fed in the same place all the time?

They travell in the wild to find food, not needed if they are in captivity.

Cats roam far if let but plenty of people keep them indoors and they have great lives. Goats and deer roam large areas at different times of the year for food but they dont need to when on farms because the food is always available. Same can be said for any animal, if a ready supply of food is available they dont need to go far

loveisdivine

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Do you not agree with zoos then ether? We are not talking about wild animals we are talking about animals bred in captivity. An elclosure of an acre imo would be plenty big, where would the tiger need to go if it was getting fed in the same place all the time?

They travell in the wild to find food, not needed if they are in captivity.

Cats roam far if let but plenty of people keep them indoors and they have great lives. Goats and deer roam large areas at different times of the year for food but they dont need to when on farms because the food is always available. Same can be said for any animal, if a ready supply of food is available they dont need to go far

I'm still on the fence about zoos. I can see that some animals need to have the population rebuilt and zoos can help in that area, but at the end of the day the majority of animals in zoos dont need to be there for conservation purposes, they are just there cos we like to look at them so it makes money for the zoo.

Why would you breed animals like tigers to keep them in captivity? For our own entertainment? How would it be beneficial for the tiger?

A tiger is meant to live in the wild, hunt for food, travel distances if it needs to, its a wild animal. When you put it in an enclosure and jsut leave a peice of meat infront of it, its not a tiger anymore.

Oh and what makes the op's friend think he is suitable for caring for such a variety of animals? Other than his love for Mike Tyson.
Anyone remember the below incident?

http://blogs.discovery.com/animal_news/2011/10/lions-tigers-and-bears-run-loose-in-rural-ohio.html

In the aftermath of the event, 49 of the lions, tigers, bears, wolves and other animals let loose were hunted down and shot by officials, who had put the are on virtual lockdown, as "public safety was our number one concern," according to Sheriff Matt Lutz.

loveisdivine

I just wanted to leave this here too. It explains why its a bad idea.
http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/exotic_pets/facts/

The Humane Society of the United States strongly opposes keeping wild animals as pets. This principle applies to both native and nonnative species, whether caught in the wild or bred in captivity. The overwhelming majority of people who obtain these animals are unable to provide the care they require.

Having any animal as a pet means being responsible for providing appropriate and humane care. Where wild animals are concerned, meeting this responsibility is usually impossible. People, animals, and the environment suffer the consequences.

Please take the time to read the full page, its very informative on this subject.

runawaybishop

loveisdivine wrote: »

I just wanted to leave this here too. It explains why its a bad idea.
http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/exotic_pets/facts/





Please take the time to read the full page, its very informative on this subject.

And very biased.

celtictiger32

ok just to clarify a couple of points, firstly before i get annihilated here i did mention it was a friend of mine with this project im just trying to help him with info etc.

secondly having spoken to him with regards some of the above posts, it was some kind of breeding programme he had in mind. he has succesfully bred some endangered bird (he did tell me the name but dont ask hadnt a clue what he said) recently and i suppose wanted to carry on.

and thirdly he has space for animals, he is not one of the 'morons' as was mentioned earlier that gets involved in the illegal trade he has the same passion as some of you seem to have on here and trust me whatever animals he does get would be well looked after.

loveisdivine

I think it would be a good idea if it were native species that are currently struggling. That way they could be raised to be released into the wild to help rebuild the wild population. I think when you start breeding or acquiring non native species that are realistically never gonna be released into the wild, then it crosses a line.

I'm all for endangered species breeding programmes

@runawaybishop - yes of course its biased, they put the welfare of the animal first, not the wants of the human. Exactly how it should be.

runawaybishop

loveisdivine wrote: »

@runawaybishop - yes of course its biased, they put the welfare of the animal first, not the wants of the human. Exactly how it should be.

Nah, they just make blanket statements. Its biased trollop that doesn't apply to every situation.