Loose lead walking tips

peteb2

As you all may have figured out at this stage, I'm trying to solve all my dog problems at the moment.

Walking is a big deal. She's six months and we have always just brough her out and she just does what she wants really. Tried saying heel and pulling back, tried stopping and starting, and tried turning around when she pulled.

I really need to decide on one approach and stick with it to get some results but there are just so many differing opinions online. Obviously the physcology is that if the dog is pulling and sniffing what it wants, she thinks she's the boss. So solving this could clear a few other issues. Is this the case?

Should I try holding a treat in my hand as we walk and making her sit occassionalyy? Tried that this morning and she payed attention some of the way around but other times still went sniffing and pulling. But when i have the treat in my hand she is constantly licking for it.

Which is the best approach??? AAAAGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

Dirk Gently

These things are pretty good. Avoids chaffing and rubbing that can happen with harness walkers.

http://www.dogfooddirect.ie/modules/shop/products/halter-training-lead/

Basically walk the dog at heel with the full head collar on. After a while you''ll find you can remove the bit from around the head and just walk the dog as a normal collar lead and the dog will walk at heel.

It's a handy lead, no straps or clips, just basically 2 loops, one around neck and one around head. put it on in a couple of seconds and release the head in a second too. Also one size fits all so no worrys about fitting the right size.

My two are big sniffers and big pullers but I can walk two 30kg dogs with one finger using these leads.

peteb2

Sorry. I should have clarified. I've already tried a canny collar at obedience classes. And it doesn't work for us. She doesn't like it and starts to nose dive into the ground to get if off. So much so that she cut the side of her mouth before. So those are a no-no.

iguana

We found the easiest thing was to teach the dog to walk to heel off lead first. It just seemed to click better with them that way.

peteb2

I suspect at this stage I am too late for that.

tk123

Have you tried using a clicker OP? You click and reward when the dog is in the right position so start off clicking every few steps and then space the clicks/rewards out as they catch on.

iguana

peteb2 wrote: »

I suspect at this stage I am too late for that.

You might be surprised. If your dog is at the stage where she associates leads with pulling and sniffing and getting to her desired destination asap, you may find it easier to train her to follow a heel command with the lead taken out of the picture. Taking her to a secure location and getting her to calm down, sit quietly and then walk a few steps at a time with you while learning to obey the word 'heel' may be easier at you aren't having to break her current associations at the same time.

peteb2

tk123 wrote: »

Have you tried using a clicker OP? You click and reward when the dog is in the right position so start off clicking every few steps and then space the clicks/rewards out as they catch on.

Nope. I don't the OH would be consistent with it when i'm not there. And could end up making matters worse.

tk123

peteb2 wrote: »

Nope. I don't the OH would be consistent with it when i'm not there. And could end up making matters worse.

Well you can tie the clicker to the lead so no excuses!! You could try a front attach harness - she'll still be able to pull but will basically pull herself back in a circle rather than going forward.

Pa Dee

peteb2 wrote: »

As you all may have figured out at this stage, I'm trying to solve all my dog problems at the moment.

Walking is a big deal. She's six months and we have always just brough her out and she just does what she wants really. Tried saying heel and pulling back, tried stopping and starting, and tried turning around when she pulled.

I really need to decide on one approach and stick with it to get some results but there are just so many differing opinions online. Obviously the physcology is that if the dog is pulling and sniffing what it wants, she thinks she's the boss. So solving this could clear a few other issues. Is this the case?

Should I try holding a treat in my hand as we walk and making her sit occassionalyy? Tried that this morning and she payed attention some of the way around but other times still went sniffing and pulling. But when i have the treat in my hand she is constantly licking for it.

Which is the best approach??? AAAAGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

You need a choke chain

ABajaninCork

Pa Dee wrote: »

You need a choke chain

NO you don't!!! That's the worst thing for a dog....

OP - Have you tried a Halti, or does it have the same results as a canny collar??

Pa Dee

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Pa Dee wrote: »

You need a choke chain

NO you don't!!! That's the worst thing for a dog....

OP - Have you tried a Halti, or does it have the same results as a canny collar??

Not at all. All dogs previously owned by me or my family have benefitted from good choke chain training. If you want a dog walking beside you with a slack lead use one

ABajaninCork

Pa Dee wrote: »

Not at all. All dogs previously owned by me or my family have benefitted from good choke chain training. If you want a dog walking beside you with a slack lead use one

We'll have to disagree then. Personally, I think choke chains are cruel and unnecessary. I would never use one on a dog.

Pa Dee

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Pa Dee wrote: »

Not at all. All dogs previously owned by me or my family have benefitted from good choke chain training. If you want a dog walking beside you with a slack lead use one

We'll have to disagree then. Personally, I think choke chains are cruel and unnecessary. I would never use one on a dog.

Why are they cruel ? They slack immediately the dog stops pulling. Perfect for training

Assassins Creed

peteb2 wrote: »

Walking is a big deal. She's six months and we have always just brough her out and she just does what she wants really. Tried saying heel and pulling back, tried stopping and starting, and tried turning around when she pulled.

Unfortunately somethimes this can turn into a bit of a game with the dog. you stop she turns around, then back to pulling again and so on backwards and forwards.

[/QUOTE] Obviously the physcology is that if the dog is pulling and sniffing what it wants, she thinks she's the boss.[/QUOTE]

Or maybe just excitement, throw in lots of smells and she's totally distracted and then it's the only way she's learned to walk on the lead so far.

[/QUOTE]Should I try holding a treat in my hand as we walk and making her sit occassionalyy? Tried that this morning and she payed attention some of the way around but other times still went sniffing and pulling. But when i have the treat in my hand she is constantly licking for it. [/QUOTE]

Your last quote is what i'd look at, theres your answer.

As she responds to the treats already, i'd look into clicker training. The great thing about clicker training is it teaches your dog to "pay attention to you", eventually even with distractions. Its very rewarding and if done right, with consistency you can make very fast progress .

Whispered

Pa Dee wrote: »

Perfect for training

I'd suggest having a google. Look up the damage done to dogs by choke chains, physical and mental.

They make reactive dogs more reactive and is basically a lazy way to train your dog. If you read up on it and you're comfortable with using pain, fear and choking to train your dog then so be it, but at least you'd be more informed about it.

OP you've been to obedience class? What did the trainer suggest and do you know why it hasn't worked? I find consistency is my worse downfall when it comes to lead training.

Pa Dee

Whispered wrote: »

Pa Dee wrote: »

Perfect for training

I'd suggest having a google. Look up the damage done to dogs by choke chains, physical and mental.

They make reactive dogs more reactive and is basically a lazy way to train your dog. If you read up on it and you're comfortable with using pain, fear and choking to train your dog then so be it, but at least you'd be more informed about it.

OP you've been to obedience class? What did the trainer suggest and do you know why it hasn't worked? I find consistency is my worse downfall when it comes to lead training.

What you are seeing is propaganda by greedy dog obedience schools. Choke chains are an excellent way to train your dog

tk123

Pa Dee wrote: »

Whispered wrote: »

Pa Dee wrote: »

Perfect for training

I'd suggest having a google. Look up the damage done to dogs by choke chains, physical and mental.

They make reactive dogs more reactive and is basically a lazy way to train your dog. If you read up on it and you're comfortable with using pain, fear and choking to train your dog then so be it, but at least you'd be more informed about it.

OP you've been to obedience class? What did the trainer suggest and do you know why it hasn't worked? I find consistency is my worse downfall when it comes to lead training.

What you are seeing is propaganda by greedy dog obedience schools. Choke chains are an excellent way to train your dog

How does the dog learn not to pull with a choke chain?

Pa Dee

tk123 wrote: »

Pa Dee wrote: »

Whispered wrote: »

Pa Dee wrote: »

Perfect for training

I'd suggest having a google. Look up the damage done to dogs by choke chains, physical and mental.

They make reactive dogs more reactive and is basically a lazy way to train your dog. If you read up on it and you're comfortable with using pain, fear and choking to train your dog then so be it, but at least you'd be more informed about it.

OP you've been to obedience class? What did the trainer suggest and do you know why it hasn't worked? I find consistency is my worse downfall when it comes to lead training.

What you are seeing is propaganda by greedy dog obedience schools. Choke chains are an excellent way to train your dog

How does the dog learn not to pull with a choke chain?

Check on YouTube for how it works

peteb2

Pa dee, stop dragging the thread off topic. I have no intention of using one so lets move on.

tk123

Pa Dee wrote: »

Check on YouTube for how it works

:rolleyes:

Anyhoos OP get clicking!! It's great - you can train loads of things with a clicker as well as the loose lead - tricks, commands etc etc. IMO put the time in and train her not to pull rather than relying on a harness, halti etc - it's very rewarding when your dog is sauntering along and you see somebody getting dragged along!! Especially if it's a smaller dog lol

DBB

peteb2 wrote: »

Pa dee, stop dragging the thread off topic. I have no intention of using one so lets move on.

I feel compelled to offer assistance thanks to this comment Peteb2! Propaganda indeed :rolleyes:
I think it sounds like you may be trying too much in one go with your pup. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that all training needs to happen in small, small steps, building on each step to make things happen for longer, and better.

However, this seems so hard to achieve with loose leash walking because a walk is far longer than any training session should last for, and if the aim is to go for a complete walk without any pulling from pup.. it's just too big an immediate aim for an untrained dog, or in your case (I think?) with a dog that has already learned some bad habits.

So, I think you need to find a way to break the loose leash walking down into small steps, but still be able to walk her. Here's what I suggest:
First, get to training the loose-leash walk as a separate entity to going for walks.

Start off around the house and garden: I wouldn't try just yet to do this out in the big bad world.. there's just too much going on!
Get your treat... you've been using them til now and she likes them, so you're no stranger to them. Hold the treat down by your side and lure pup to come to your side. Give her the treat. Now take another treat, and walk one step forward, luring her to follow the treat. When she follows after one step, treat her. Repeat this a number of times until she is pretty good at following you for one step.

Now progress to two steps, rewarding her after following beside you for two steps. Then three. Then four... you get the picture. When she is following predictably, you can start to introduce the verbal command "heel", before walking forward.

But, I hear you cry, how am I going to get my dog out for walks? Well, the secret to good training is to set training up so that both you and your dog can succeed as much as possible, and to prevent rehearsal of the unwanted aspects of behaviour. Getting her to walk with a loose leash on a walk right now is your aim.. but it's a bit away yet. So, because you need to get her out for walks outside of your training sessions at home, I'd strongly recommend getting her a front-attachment harness (Easy Walk Harness, Sense-Ible Harness, Halti Harness are some brand names...), which allows you to walk her without her being able to "rehearse" that pulling outside of your training sessions. So, I guess it's a kind of win-win situation.

As the training at home progresses, by all means start to do a bit of it out on walks. and remember, use your voice a LOT to give your pup feedback! If she does well, tell her she's fab... I think verbal feedback is really underused in training!

One more thing: you can rest assured she's not pulling on the lead to try to establish her place in the pack. I know many, many cowardly, scaredy cat, utterly "undominant" dogs that pull on the lead! The simple reason why dogs pull on the lead is that they learn that it gets them from A to B faster. Try not to define your dog's behaviour in terms of her trying to find her place in the pack.. dogs really don't think that way at all. In almost every case, dogs do what they do because they have learned that it works for them better than not doing it does.
True "dominance" behaviour in dogs towards humans is quite rare, and if owners think that their lovely little pooch is doing x, y or z behaviour because they're trying to be dominant, it can really affect the way the owner thinks about their dog for the worse, which is a terrible shame considering that this is not what the dog is thinking at all!

So, slow and steady to teach her to like walking beside you, whilst using a front-attachment harness to go out on walks so that she's not pulling you outside of your training sessions. I think many will agree that the loose-leash walking is the hardest basic obedience skill to teach because it is perhaps a little less tangible to the dog than a sit, or a down. But the idea is that you make her really enjoy walking next to you.
I hope this helps! Stay patient, we're all behind you

catherine1984

choke chains are great. I use one on both of my dogs and they never pull on the lead. I have tried halti's on both of them and my arm gets pulled off.

tk123

catherine1984 wrote: »

choke chains are great. I use one on both of my dogs and they never pull on the lead. I have tried halti's on both of them and my arm gets pulled off.

The OP wants to TRAIN the dog not to pull - ie put time in and not take a lazy approach that could possibly blow up in their face - especially with a puppy who's still learning it's way and could get a whole load of hang ups from a choke chain. I'm 5ft and my retriever is 30kgs of muscle he does intense hydro sessions and is very very strong. If I can do it anyone can. I have honestly never seen a dog on a choke chain that wasn't choking trying to say hello to the other dogs in the park.

ABajaninCork

catherine1984 wrote: »

choke chains are great. I use one on both of my dogs and they never pull on the lead. I have tried halti's on both of them and my arm gets pulled off.

Totally agree with TK123. I've had two 6 stone Dobies. Yes, I've used choke chains on both, but this was back in the 80's and we didn't know any better then. Then Halti's arrived. I'm 5ft 2, and could walk both on the Halti's without them pulling. Before Halti's my dogs used to literally cough and choke trying to greet other dogs.

You have your opinion. I have mine. Choke chains are totally unnecessary, cruel, frankly lazy and NOT great IMHO.

tk123

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Totally agree with TK123. I've had two 6 stone Dobies. Yes, I've used choke chains on both, but this was back in the 80's and we didn't know any better then. Then Halti's arrived. I'm 5ft 2, and could walk both on the Halti's without them pulling. Before Halti's my dogs used to literally cough and choke trying to greet other dogs.

You have your opinion. I have mine. Choke chains are totally unnecessary, cruel, frankly lazy and NOT great IMHO.

OT but people always say my guy is big but I think he's smallish for a retriever (i've seen ones that are slightly smaller and ones much bigger than him) do you get this? I wonder if they're looking at them in proportion to their owners!? :pac:

Amzie

Halti harness worked pretty well on my Samoyed as he pulled really bad on walks before I tried it:) he hated the head halti so this worked as a last resort.. I don't even need the harness anymore and he can be walked on a normal lead
P.s it takes time and lots of patience but you will get there, ( I never thought I'd get there lol)

planetX

DBB wrote: »

One more thing: you can rest assured she's not pulling on the lead to try to establish her place in the pack. I know many, many cowardly, scaredy cat, utterly "undominant" dogs that pull on the lead! The simple reason why dogs pull on the lead is that they learn that it gets them from A to B faster. Try not to define your dog's behaviour in terms of her trying to find her place in the pack.. dogs really don't think that way at all. In almost every case, dogs do what they do because they have learned that it works for them better than not doing it does.

+1 to this. My dog is the most submissive scaredy dog, and is quite bad for pulling on the lead. He just wants to go faster:)

meoklmrk91

I got a Halti Harness for my dog, he is pretty good on the lead but sometimes if he sees another dog etc. he will pull to say hello, or if he wants to chase something. I have only tried the harness out once but the results speak for themselves, plus he had no issues with it, didn't seem stressed liken he did with a head collar on which really upset him. It gets a big thumbs up from me. I for one hate choke chains, I find a puller is even more inclined to pull.

Ms Tootsie

Just wondering if these haltie collars would be any good with trying to train a dog not to jump and greet people when we are out walking. As he is getting stronger it is becoming harder for me to stop him doing this with just the harness.

there is no harm in him doing it, it's more in an over affectionate way to try and lick people but one lady who was out running did not appreciate him bounding into her path. It was a narrow path way and I had moved onto the road and had him as close to the edge of the path as I could but he was practically standing on his back legs with his tail wagging like mad trying to gover over to her. She promptly took out her earphones and gave off to me. I apologied profusly and explained it was not an agressive act and more like he is just over friendly. I also explained that we are trying to train him and then finished with another apology. She then told me to control my F***ing dog in future. Not a particularly nice lady at all. I think the halti might be an option though as it might help me control his over eagerness and avoid such instances in the future.

So basically just wondering if any users of the halti have found it effective to control such behaviour?

Amzie

kaza2710 wrote: »

Just wondering if these haltie collars would be any good with trying to train a dog not to jump and greet people when we are out walking. As he is getting stronger it is becoming harder for me to stop him doing this with just the harness.

there is no harm in him doing it, it's more in an over affectionate way to try and lick people but one lady who was out running did not appreciate him bounding into her path. It was a narrow path way and I had moved onto the road and had him as close to the edge of the path as I could but he was practically standing on his back legs with his tail wagging like mad trying to gover over to her. She promptly took out her earphones and gave off to me. I apologied profusly and explained it was not an agressive act and more like he is just over friendly. I also explained that we are trying to train him and then finished with another apology. She then told me to control my F***ing dog in future. Not a particularly nice lady at all. I think the halti might be an option though as it might help me control his over eagerness and avoid such instances in the future.

So basically just wondering if any users of the halti have found it effective to control such behaviour?

Ignore that woman she sounds very unreasonable,especially her sayn control your ****ing dog in future. Obviously I can understand her frustration but she sounds aggressive! U were trying to control your dog and apologised what more can u do. So in answer to your question I use the halti harness and found it brilliant as my dog was the exact same with being over friendly. It's about €15-€20 I think but make sure u get the right size and that it's not loose on your dog. It just gives u more control without hurting yourself. I found the halti head collars crap as my dog was frantic trying to get it off and he chewed off 4 of them! Lol

Ddad

Tbh op I can see where the lady was coming from. My wifes a runner and I bring our dog on long walks in public forests and both of us have regular negative experiences with people unable to control their pet. My wifes club members have been bitten and chased almost without exception. As a nation of dog owners we suck at controlling our pets so you can see how frustrations build. I'm not excusing her choice of words though.

Have you attended training classes with the dog and if so how persistent have you been with the training regime. Our fella is bright enough and when he gets something it sticks but he needs a good bit of training. Our own dog is a work in progress but I'd be fairly mortified if he was on his hind legs trying to lick passersby to death;).

IMHO I think the primary solution is lifestyle and training and the harnesses collars et al are fallbacks although some friends are very enamoured with the haltis.

Best of luck

Ms Tootsie

Ddad wrote: »

Tbh op I can see where the lady was coming from. My wifes a runner and I bring our dog on long walks in public forests and both of us have regular negative experiences with people unable to control their pet. My wifes club members have been bitten and chased almost without exception. As a nation of dog owners we suck at controlling our pets so you can see how frustrations build. I'm not excusing her choice of words though.

Have you attended training classes with the dog and if so how persistent have you been with the training regime. Our fella is bright enough and when he gets something it sticks but he needs a good bit of training. Our own dog is a work in progress but I'd be fairly mortified if he was on his hind legs trying to lick passersby to death;).

IMHO I think the primary solution is lifestyle and training and the harnesses collars et al are fallbacks although some friends are very enamoured with the haltis.

Best of luck

Sorry I should have explained, I had the dog on a tight leash and close to my body all he could do was get on his hind legs, at no point was he in the runners path or even close to it. I am always very conscious of that as I was actually very wary of dogs when I was younger (having been chased by one it left me with a bit of fear). The thing is his action in no way warrented her response. He is only coming up to 7 months old and is still very much in that excitable puppy phase.

We are trying out classes with dogwise in Blanch so I am hoping some of it will start to stick. The thing is we have been training him at home and he picks up very very quickly, sit, heel, fetch, down (when he is jumping up) they all took no more than 10 minutes for him to grasp using reward based training.

While out walking we have had a few negative experiences ourselves so I can totally understand where you are coming from, dogs walked off leash but not properly trained have come bounding at our guy and on more than one occassion he has been snapped at. As we are still working on training him we keep him on a tight and short leash. The thing is leash training takes times and the only way to do it is to get out and walk him so I found this runners attitude a bit aggressive as I had explained that he was a pup and we were in the middle of training him and he wasnt actually jumping on her and it was clear I had him on a tight and short leash and the only thing he was capably of doing was going up on his hind legs. I hadnt heard of haltis and I think they might speed up the process of at least curbing his enthusiasm for jumping on his hind legs when he sees something / someone.

meoklmrk91

kaza2710 wrote: »

Just wondering if these haltie collars would be any good with trying to train a dog not to jump and greet people when we are out walking. As he is getting stronger it is becoming harder for me to stop him doing this with just the harness.

there is no harm in him doing it, it's more in an over affectionate way to try and lick people but one lady who was out running did not appreciate him bounding into her path. It was a narrow path way and I had moved onto the road and had him as close to the edge of the path as I could but he was practically standing on his back legs with his tail wagging like mad trying to gover over to her. She promptly took out her earphones and gave off to me. I apologied profusly and explained it was not an agressive act and more like he is just over friendly. I also explained that we are trying to train him and then finished with another apology. She then told me to control my F***ing dog in future. Not a particularly nice lady at all. I think the halti might be an option though as it might help me control his over eagerness and avoid such instances in the future.

So basically just wondering if any users of the halti have found it effective to control such behaviour?

The halti harness sounds like it would be perfect for your fella. I only got it recently but I am definately a convert, it gives you another level of control over the dog which is perfect for when they decide they want to go. My fella is usually perfect on the lead but every so often he would get over exited at something like another animal or a person and he is so bloody strong that I started having shoulder pains after the happened. He seems not to be bothered by it at all, the head collard he hated but he seems fine with the harness so no dramas when putting it on.