New Law-Hedges to be 2 meters max height.

paddy147

I see that Minister for justice,Alan Shatter is trying to bring in a "right to light" law.

This is where people must keep their hedges and leylendi and trees to a height of no more than 2 meters in height so that neighbouring houses get natural light from daylight/sunlight.

Main headline on the front page of the Irish Daily Mail today,for anyone interested.:)

nudger

Good luck with that.:rolleyes:

I have a couple of layland trees well out of control, got a quote of €900 to cut and remove (there huge).

When I started to do a bit of prep before getting the guys in to do the job one of the neighbor's stuck the head over the wall telling me how much he loved the big trees and that the other neighbor's felt the same way.

So canceled the job.

Slick50

Why 2m ?, it's a ridiculous hight IMO. Sounds like there's a personal agenda here, or is this the most important issue he can find to tackle.

paddy147

Slick50 wrote: »

Why 2m ?, it's a ridiculous hight IMO. Sounds like there's a personal agenda here, or is this the most important issue he can find to tackle.

Well 2 meters is the maximum permitted height for a boundary wall in a back garden and 1.2 meters for the front garden,so it might be in keeping with that height.

Any walls to be built higher than that would require full planning permission.



So does that mean you will need planning permission /retention for a hedge/leylendi over 2 meters now?:pac::D

paddy147

All we need now is a "hedge tax".. from "big Phil".:pac::rolleyes:

Slick50

paddy147 wrote: »

Well 2 meters is the maximum permitted height for a boundary wall in a back garden and 1.2 meters for the front garden,so it might be in keeping with that height.

But you can build upto 4m, pitched roof, on an exempt developement.

There's going to be a lot of shrubbery to be trimmed.

paddy147

Slick50 wrote: »

But you can build upto 4m, pitched roof, on an exempt developement.

There's going to be a lot of shrubbery to be trimmed.

Thats for a garage build to the rear of the house and maximum floor area of 25 square meters.Anything bigger than that needs full planning permission.


There also has to be a minimum for 25 square meters of private garden/leisure space between the garage and the back of the house.


You cant use a garden boundary wall as a garage/supporting wall though.A boundary wall can only be 2 meters high though.If you wanted a higher boundary wall then you would need to get full planning permission for it (which is highly unlikely these days)

paddy147

I rekon this new "right to light" law will be like whats in the UK and in NI.

If a neighbour complains to the local council about the tall height of the hedge/leylendi,and the council agrees with the neighbour,then you have to cut the hedge down to 2 meters in height,as per the law.If you dont,then you get fined something like 1000 quid.

Thats how it will work over here,I think.

The neighbour would have to make the complaint 1st though.

lynchieboy

I think there should be a law to stop people letting their hedges grow out onto the footpath, there are houses around me where the hedges are growing out so far I have to step off the path with the childs buggy!

looksee

While I agree in some cases - where a hedge is a boundary between two gardens for example, 2 m might be a good idea, in other cases it is going to be impossible to monitor. I am looking out at a boundary hedge on the edge of some common ground that is the height of medium sized trees, up to 6m at a guess.

Who decides what is a rural hedge and what is a garden hedge. And who is responsible for those kind of hedges.

We have a tree embedded in a mixed hedge, the hedge is around 6ft high. Is the tree part of the hedge? That is very common on housing estates, how do you decide what is a row of trees and what is a hedge.

Will this rule apply to some of the elegant yew and similar 'walks' in formal gardens?


I would be the first to agree that overgrown hedges can be very obtrusive if they are blocking light, and it should be possible to appeal them, but a one-size-fits-all rule is not going to work.

555guy

paddy147 wrote: »

I see that Minister for justice,Alan Shatter is trying to bring in a "right to light" law.

Jaysus !!! , they must be flat out in the justice department these days !!

Slick50

lynchieboy wrote: »

I think there should be a law to stop people letting their hedges grow out onto the footpath, there are houses around me where the hedges are growing out so far I have to step off the path with the childs buggy!

I'm pretty sure there are laws regarding obstruction of a footpath, have you made any complaints to your local council office.

paddy147 wrote:

Thats for a garage build to the rear of the house and maximum floor area of 25 square meters.

That's right. But what is the use in limiting the height of a shrub, tree or hedge to 2m, when it can have a building twice as high directly behind it.

I think in principal it's a good idea, but, as I've said, 2m is ridiculous.

It's a big change from "the right to light" not being considered as grounds for objecting to planning permission.

555guy wrote:

Jaysus !!! , they must be flat out in the justice department these days !!

It seems Mr Shatter can't stand the sight of untidy bush.

planetX

About time too - now if they could just ban leylandii from garden centres like the uk that would be even better. I'd be sitting in lovely early morning sunshine in my kitchen right now if it wasn't blocked by the neighbours 20m monsters. They also overhang my garden by about 5m, rendering the space underneath completely dead. Their roots invade everywhere. They won't ever be removed, it would cost thousands.
There are some massive branches overhanging my shed - does anyone know the legal situation if one falls in a storm and does damage? Last storm detached a few, but they missed.

bramble1

about time, my neighbour has them at the bottom of his garden,when the sun shines i do not get sunshine in my back garden after 5 in the evening. ihave asked him in a polite way to cut them back but all i get is a grunt from him,as soon it is passed i will report him.he also has a tree 2 foot from my dividing wall and i kid you not it has to be 80 feet high with roots all over my lawn.
right to light law = pay back time.

bramble1

btw
does anybody know when this law will come to pass???
soon i hope??

maddragon

Fining transgressors will create a hedge fund which combined with pruning of certain branches of the public sector will help us back onto the bond markets in 2013.

padi89

I really hope this is passed and enforced, if you have to live with a row of them at 30ft blocking light into a south facing garden it is depressing to say the least.:(

Oldtree

planetX wrote: »

About time too - now if they could just ban leylandii from garden centres like the uk that would be even better. I'd be sitting in lovely early morning sunshine in my kitchen right now if it wasn't blocked by the neighbours 20m monsters. They also overhang my garden by about 5m, rendering the space underneath completely dead. Their roots invade everywhere. They won't ever be removed, it would cost thousands.
There are some massive branches overhanging my shed - does anyone know the legal situation if one falls in a storm and does damage? Last storm detached a few, but they missed.

I think it is immoral to plant leylandii as a hedge in a urban setting these days. I think legislation is needed as I have met many people who suffer unnecessairly without any compassion from the offending neighbour and litigation is hugely expensive here. It is easy to define the difference between an urban and a rural hedge and in my opinion trees in a hedge form part of thet hedge. A 2 meter boundry height is reasonable as it is above head height for most giving some privacy in a congested environment, as well as being easy to manage.

My advice to clients is to consider planting a deciduous hedge. Mostly people want a wind break and privacy. It is well known that deciduous hedging slows wind down by about 50% which is the best you can hope for, used in orchards in the uk now, leylandii only serve as a wind block and funnel the wind or the wind goes up and over and comes down at twice the height of the hedge at twice the speed. Light in winter is an important issue in Ireland given the grey days and deciduous hedging allows light through during the winter and gives privacy during the summer when the garden is being mostly used.

From: Trees, forests and the law in Ireland by Damian McHugh and Gerhardt Gallagher: bottom of page here

http://www.coford.ie/publications/listofcofordpublications/

Page 8

Leading Irish case Lynch V Hetherton 1991 landowner's duty of care, reasonable and prudent to guard against damage of a falling tree (or part therof I think is reasonable to assume)

page 10

Property owners should have public liability insurance (which I presume covers their own negligence) should a tree or branch fall or roots undermine...

tree owner must be able to show regular inspections by tree expert or specialist (I presume a suitably qualified arborist). In addition tree owner would be expected to keep an eye on trees for disease or other visible signs of damage that might indicate weakness and act upon as a matter of urgency... not just out of a sense of neighbourliness but for self-protection.

The owner is therefore liable for any damage, but if you have done some pruning to them it may be a bit of a task to pin down your % of the liability.

You can prune any overhanging branches back to the boundry, but your actions cannot kill the tree as you are then liable for that damage.

20m monsters could be topped by about a third without killing them, but the sides can only be taken back a bit as they do not grow back from wood beyond where the leaves finish, as exampled by all the dead branches on 1 side of headges throughout the country.

Your neighbour, if you can get them to agree in writing to this, would no doubt be happy for you to pay for this work.

paddy147

Even your garden isnt safe anymore,thanks to FG and all these policies.

Far more important things to be worrying about at the moment,than the height of a hedge.

Watched Enda try to bullsh1t his way out of answering serious questions this morning about our sovernty in the Dail and the ERSI report,and his attitude is rather shocking and sickening to say the least.

Frankfurts way and no other way...yet again.

Oldtree

A political rant in the garden, off to the shed with you paddy!!

(anyway it all FF's fault)

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

A political rant in the garden, off to the shed with you paddy!!

(anyway it all FF's fault)

Sure its now your fault and my fault too (or so Enda "Flip Flop" Kenny says)

But sure Enda Kenny isnt responsible for anything and isnt making things worse.:mad:


Anyway...sure thats a different story for a different thread.

bbam

bramble1 wrote: »

about time, my neighbour has them at the bottom of his garden,when the sun shines i do not get sunshine in my back garden after 5 in the evening. ihave asked him in a polite way to cut them back but all i get is a grunt from him,as soon it is passed i will report him.he also has a tree 2 foot from my dividing wall and i kid you not it has to be 80 feet high with roots all over my lawn.
right to light law = pay back time.

I hear that if you dril a small hole into the trunk and pour a little diesel in the tree will die in no time at all. I know someone who did this after a dispute where a neighbour allowed a tree grow where it was a total nuisance.
I wouldn't condone it though, cruelty to trees.

Some neighbours are so inconsiderate allowing planting to incroach on their neighbours without a thought. I think the 2 meter limit is a good thing provided its enforced and not let go by the wayside like so much other legislation.

paddy147

bbam wrote: »

I hear that if you dril a small hole into the trunk and pour a little diesel in the tree will die in no time at all. I know someone who did this after a dispute where a neighbour allowed a tree grow where it was a total nuisance.
I wouldn't condone it though, cruelty to trees.

Some neighbours are so inconsiderate allowing planting to incroach on their neighbours without a thought. I think the 2 meter limit is a good thing provided its enforced and not let go by the wayside like so much other legislation.

Prossecution for criminal damage then?

Oldtree

Deffo not a good idea as very evident to professional as to seat of damage to tree. Ireland is a very litigious country so persue any tree dispute in a proper and legal manner.

Oldtree

paddy147 wrote: »

Sure its now your fault and my fault too (or so Enda "Flip Flop" Kenny says)
But sure Enda Kenny isnt responsible for anything and isnt making things worse.:mad:
Anyway...sure thats a different story for a different thread.

And we said we'll all go down togeather..... :D:D;)

Listen at 3.25 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CABCIseO8Zo

looksee

I totally agree about leylandii hedges and full size trees in small gardens, but if all the trees on my estate were cut down it would be a very sad place. If a tree in a hedge is a hedge - how far away from the hedge does it have to be to not be a hedge - mine is just out of line and is on the front edge of the garden where it does not affect anyone.

The hedge I mentioned earlier is on the estate but not against anyone's garden, except for a new estate on the other side, the hedge was there first and is in fact protected. The people who have the hedge at the bottom of their gardens (on the east side) knew what they were buying, though it hasn't stopped some of them hacking down protected hedgerow, with no consequences. I wonder what consequences will be for people who do not remove hedges when instructed.

I think the ruling will have to be that it will be legal to ask for an order that a hedge has to be cut down, rather than a blanket 'all hedges' ruling.

paddy147

2 page article about it in this evenings Evening Herald too (pages 13 and 14)

donegal_man

It's all part of a conspiracy by the New World Order/Bilderberg/Lizard People to further erode our freedom. They plan to recruit lots of really tall secret police to peer into our gardens.

Oldtree

looksee wrote: »

If a tree in a hedge is a hedge - how far away from the hedge does it have to be to not be a hedge
I think the ruling will have to be that it will be legal to ask for an order that a hedge has to be cut down, rather than a blanket 'all hedges' ruling.

It is a question of the right tree in the right place. Seldom have I seen the right tree planted in the right place, rarely is the correct amount of space given to a tree that is enough for posterity, for the tree to grow and mature, imo trees in the urban landscape planted for pleasure are utility trees without a thought as to how big the tree will eventually get, such as the combination of leylandii and poplar hedges planted that were popular to plant in the 70's.

If a tree is in a boundry hedge or even in your garden then I think you are morally obliged to take the following into consideration;

Does the tree block light or branches overhang or roots ingress into my neighbours garden?
What right do I have to do that to my neighbour?
Does my neighbour like the tree and what will my neighbour think of the tree in 10-20 years time?
Could I choose a smaller tree/slower growing hedge for that spot?
Should I discuss my ideas for planting a tree/hedge with my neighbours?
Should I keep an open dialogue with my neighbour about trees and hedges.

The reason for the new laws is to give people that have been unable to get a reasonable agreement with a neighbour a method to get the boundry issue sorted out. If you plant a hedge or bought a house with a hedge then you are responsible for it.

An estate has either a management group or the council responsible for it.

If neighbours are in agreement as to a solution then all is well.

I think a blanket ruling is possible with very clearly defined rules and fines for non compliance. It is imo a reasonable thing to manage your garden without impinging on your neighbours pleasure of their garden.

Urban district has already been defined in law, see (c) here on tree felling:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/treefelling/legalrequirementsfortreefelling/

But I think would need further refining to cover groups of houses in the rural environment or adjacent to urban settings.

Oldtree

paddy147 wrote: »

2 page article about it in this evenings Evening Herald too (pages 13 and 14)

link to article:

http://www.herald.ie/news/families-torn-apart-by-battles-with-their-neighbours-3137656.html

"Mr Shatter's office says the issue of overgrown trees and blocked light is being considered by the Department of Justice."

Wouldn't get too excited about it just yet

looksee

But the point I am making Oldtree is that you can have a tree or hedge in a garden that does not impact on neighbours in any way, and yet could still be subject to blanket rules.

I am the first to agree about leylandii and trees like conifers and sycamores that have been allowed to grow unchecked in small gardens and create a nuisance, but there are numerous trees and hedges on the estate where I live that create no problem for anyone - except the ones that grow out over the pavements, and the 2 m rules isn't going to help them - and I would hate to see them all subject to a sweeping rule.

My son lives on a small estate in a rural area, with around half to an acre of ground to each house, would they be subject to the same rulings as an urban situation?

Anyway we are discussing something that has not happened yet, I hope there is a ruling, but not one that disregards individual circumstances.

Oldtree

I do see what you mean, but if there is no problem from a tree or hedge then I cant see anyone doing anything about it even if it brakes any future 2 meter rule or right to light rules. So I wouldnt worry there. I really think that this is about boundry hedge issues (like in the uk) and not the general urban tree landscape.

However in the uk there is an arboricultural tree officer in each council to manage the urban trees and tree complaints and tree protection orders, no such luck here. I understand here in mayo that trees are under the arcitecture section with someone who may have a horticulture cert??? :rolleyes::(
(which explains why the boiling gets cut off the bottom of pesky trees with a chainsaw (allowing serious undermining of the strength of the trees and large avenues of decay to open up at the base of the trees adjacent to public paths) rather than the wayward shoots being trimmed off, serious liability issue there (actually seen it being done).

I live in the countryside and am adjacent to 1 other dwelling to the north with my hedge (allbeit alder/ash mix) between us. I control the hedge and always ask my neighbours' permission to trim his side and also always ask for his opinion on the height and any light issues he may have and impress upon him that I do not want to take away his light.

Shinny22

Hi, I'm a newbie here but was reading the posts regarding trees as my neighbour is complaining about mine! I admit they are rather large but I can't afford to get them cut as I am on disability and live alone.
But... this neighbour has been cutting them down to about 4ft near her house for the last 7 years and I havent said a word to her. The trees (about 150 of them) go all around my property at the front and side. If they are bothering her (she says they are making her wall damp and green) doesnt she have the right to cut them on her side? Also, has this 2m high law come in? I have been threatened with her 'going to the environment about this'. Any ideas? Thanks

looksee

Strictly speaking she is only allowed to cut off branches that hang over onto her property, then she is supposed to give you the branches back . She should not just cut down the height from her side, as that would bring her onto your side of the boundary.

However you sound as though you are sympathetic to the trees being lowered, just that you can't afford to do it. If she has sorted the problem to her satisfaction and it isn't a problem for you, why not just leave it, everybody's happy!

recedite

It seems that this law would only apply to Leylandii hedges.
Very often these are a serious nuisance to neighbours, and the owner can't be bothered doing anything, because they are at the very end of his garden and it would cost money to trim them.
I see it as a small but useful law. Not a waste of Shatter's time at all. That's what the legislature is supposed to be there for. Not holding clinics to sort out peoples medical card application forms.

Shinny22

Thanks guys. Do you know what 'the environment' will do about this or will they just say its a neighbour dispute?

paddy147

Shinny22 wrote: »

Thanks guys. Do you know what 'the environment' will do about this or will they just say its a neighbour dispute?

There are mediation officers that will take on a case and try to settle favourably with the 2 neighbours who are in the dispute.

Shinny22

ok thanks. keep your fingers crossed!

Slick50

recedite wrote: »

It seems that this law would only apply to Leylandii hedges..

Where did you get this information?, has this been passed as law yet?

recedite

I'll rephrase that to "leylandii type hedges." The point is, it would not mean an end to every individual tree or shrub that is taller than 2 metres.

From;

Oldtree wrote: »

link to article:

http://www.herald.ie/news/families-torn-apart-by-battles-with-their-neighbours-3137656.html

Mr Broughan raised the issue of leylandii hedges, which tend to sprawl rapidly and block light to adjoining properties.
While other jurisdictions have introduced rules forcing homeowners to control the plants, no such legislation exists in Ireland.
Mr Broughan wants to see a two-metre height restriction

The "other jurisdictions" which we normally copy our laws from (a few years later) are of course in the UK;
"Part VIII ("High Hedges") is in response to concerns about hedges, typically of Leyland Cypress plants, which can grow to 6 metres or more in height, sometimes cutting out light for neighbours. Such hedges are not controlled by town planning legislation (which normally limits the height of fences to 2 metres), and so there was formerly no way of preventing people from allowing such a hedge to grow. This part of the Act gives local authorities the power to investigate complaints made by people affected by such hedges, and, if necessary, to require their reduction"
(from wiki)

paddy147

Slick50 wrote: »

Where did you get this information?, has this been passed as law yet?

There is no law yet,its just a proposal at the moment.

Sure they will be more worried with trying to force everyone to pay the 100 euro Household Charge now,then passing this hedge law.

Oldtree

I think here that a hedge will have to be defined as to how much light is blocked by a "block" of plants or else the new law will have to be all encompassing ie that no border plants can be allowed to grow over 2m without agreement from the neighbour, of course a new neighbour could disagree.....

BigAl81

Hi,

I did a search around and didn't see any updates on this issue. A neighbor's tree in the back garden is 6 to 8 meters high and we're wondering if they may have to trim it at some stage, it's blocks a lot of light from our house ;o(

Does anyone know if the is any legislation coming in to enforce a max tree height?

Cheers,
Al.

Mango Joe

BigAl81 wrote: »

Hi,

I did a search around and didn't see any updates on this issue. A neighbor's tree in the back garden is 6 to 8 meters high and we're wondering if they may have to trim it at some stage, it's blocks a lot of light from our house ;o(

Does anyone know if the is any legislation coming in to enforce a max tree height?

Cheers,
Al.

Having lived in a house previously where back garden got no light I 1000% agree with the proposed 2M max height - enough to give more than ample privacy but not high enough to punish your neighbours into a realm of dark night in the otherwise sunny afternoons.....

recedite

The guy who was pushing this " proposed new law", Tommy Broughan TD has moved on to a new hobbyhorse now; the NCT car tests and various complaints concerning them.
Minister Shatter has been far too busy arguing with Ming and Mick about which of them has benefited the most so far from claiming diplomatic immunity at Garda checkpoints.
And very shortly they will all go off on their holidays for a few months.
So I think we may forget about this hedge thing altogether, at this stage.

newhouse87

Were leylandii banned on new developments? in tipperary and have planted since last year but local garden centre told me they are banned, i could find nothing on my planing that indicated that.

lawred2

Should certainly be banned on taste grounds but I'd be surprised if they were actually banned unless it's a local planning condition.

runjb

So nothing ever came of this law?

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121886640#Comment_121886640

On planning permission we got here in north county Cork about ten years back it stipulated that Leylandii and Griselinia were not to be planted as part of the landscaping around the house that we built. They are still for sale in the nearest garden centre and not sure who would enforce the directions on the planning permission.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020516#Comment_122020516

Cheers, i actually couldn't find it on my planning. I took them up anyway and planted laurel hedging 2 weeks ago. Will look nicer in the long run and should give me privacy too.