Super Unleaded Petrol

MetzgerMeister

Is there anywhere in the republic where you can buy 98+ RON petrol? My car is supposed to use this and I'm getting some serious engine knock by using normal 95 RON which can have disastrous effects on the engine.

I'm also interested in what octane boosters are out there. I have used Lucas OB a few times but I can't afford to add a bottle of this (€15) to each tank of petrol. I've heard mention of Miller's which you just add a cap-full to each tank.

Thanks in advance

Seth Brundle

Isn't maxol's unleaded 98+ RON? Could be the same for many other suppliers.

MetzgerMeister

kbannon wrote: »

Isn't maxol's unleaded 98+ RON? Could be the same for many other suppliers.

There used be a maxol right across the road from me which used sell super unleaded but they have been independent for the last few years. I must have a look to see where my nearest maxol is now.

.... I doubt a cap full of millers would do much. Are you sure that wasn't stuff for diesel they were on about.

Mycroft H

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

There used be a maxol right across the road from me which used sell super unleaded but they have been independent for the last few years. I must have a look to see where my nearest maxol is now.

Maxol sells E5 which is 99.2 or something like that.


However, the old Super Unleaded is long gone. I've not seen it for 5 years or more.

EDIT; Apparently Applegreen sells E5
http://applegreen.ie/fuels

Seth Brundle

Bear in mind that Ireland doesn't do "super unleaded", its just unleaded but one forecourt brand may have 98 whereas another will only have 95.
What car is it? Many cars (not all admittedly) here can adjust themselves based on the octane.

stealthyspeeder

I believe its a mazda 6MPS, same engine as the 3MPS I used to have, I found that it would knock when I didnt fill up with Maxol petrol. How long have you been running it on 95 octane?

Thankfully my nearest two stations are Maxols!

bazz26

I'd say the North is probably the closest place you will get 98 RON. Afaik anything sold down here is 95 RON.

Leonard Hofstadter

I thought all petrol here now was E5, meaning that everything is supposed to be 99 RON?

MetzgerMeister

RoverJames wrote: »

.... I doubt a cap full of millers would do much. Are you sure that wasn't stuff for diesel they were on about.

Nope, I'm pretty sure Gary said that he uses a cap full of Millers and it treats a full tank.

BX 19 wrote: »

Maxol sells E5 which is 99.2 or something like that.


However, the old Super Unleaded is long gone. I've not seen it for 5 years or more.

EDIT; Apparently Applegreen sells E5
http://applegreen.ie/fuels

There's an applegreen in Urlingford which is about 20 mins from me. I'll look into it.

kbannon wrote: »

Bear in mind that Ireland doesn't do "super unleaded", its just unleaded but one forecourt brand may have 98 whereas another will only have 95.
What car is it? Many cars (not all admittedly) here can adjust themselves based on the octane.

How does the price not go up a good bit for 98 compared to 95? I know different places are different prices anyway but not as much as the difference was between Unleaded and Super unleaded.

My car is a Mazda6 MPS and yes, it can adjust but the knock retard can hit 2.76 which is stupidly bad for the engine. At some stage it'll be knocking on heaven's door

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I believe its a mazda 6MPS, same engine as the 3MPS I used to have, I found that it would knock when I didnt fill up with Maxol petrol. How long have you been running it on 95 octane?

Thankfully my nearest two stations are Maxols!

I've had it just over a year now and it's only ever had 95 but I have added Lucas OB 6 or 7 times in the year. There really is a noticeable difference in performance with it.

captainspeed wrote: »

I thought all petrol here now was E5, meaning that everything is supposed to be 99 RON?

Whether it's supposed to be or not is a different story compared to what it is I'm afraid. Data logs in my car are showing knock retard at 2.76 when it shouldn't go about 2. Ideally with high octane fuel it wouldn't be there at all.

ShadowHearth

Mazda mps are so sensitive to petrol too?

I know all jap imports suffer from this crapy petrol in Ireland. Imported Subarus can blow in just few hours driving on Irish fuel. Basicly if you import Subaru then just put it up on trailer and go to nearest RR and map it for Irish fuel.

Couldn't you map it for lower grade fuel too? Maybe lose few hp, but it will be safer. Knock is a very dangerous thing to play with

MetzgerMeister

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Mazda mps are so sensitive to petrol too?

I know all jap imports suffer from this crapy petrol in Ireland. Imported Subarus can blow in just few hours driving on Irish fuel. Basicly if you import Subaru then just put it up on trailer and go to nearest RR and map it for Irish fuel.

Couldn't you map it for lower grade fuel too? Maybe lose few hp, but it will be safer. Knock is a very dangerous thing to play with

I think all performance cars are sensitive to petrol octance.

I could map it for 95 RON but that's going against every reason I have for buying the car and the software I got. I don't think that's going to happen

TestTransmission

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I've heard mention of Miller's which you just add a cap-full to each tank.

This stuff ya mean? http://www.edsportrallysupplies.ie/RaceOils2.html

I think it's a whole 500ml bottle to a tankful if I recall.

Seth Brundle

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

How does the price not go up a good bit for 98 compared to 95? I know different places are different prices anyway but not as much as the difference was between Unleaded and Super unleaded.

Can't comment on the price but all of Maxol's unleaded is E5 and the FAQ on their site says:

What is the Octane Rating of E5 compared to ordinary Unleaded
The Octane Rating of Ordinary unleaded ranges from 95.0 to 95.9 – average 95.5. The Octane rating of E5 is higher and has been measured at 99.

http://newsite.maxol.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=144&Itemid=292#What is the Octane Rating of E5 compared to ordinary Unleaded

unkel

captainspeed wrote: »

I thought all petrol here now was E5, meaning that everything is supposed to be 99 RON?

My thoughts exactly. But the knocking seems to prove the OP is still getting undiluted RON 95? I thought nobody sold that anymore

Did you try other petrol stations in your area?

Or alternatively, use the undiluted RON 95 but add 5 liters of E85 per every full tank

Seth Brundle

Topaz, Esso & Texaco (non Techron) are all 95RON AFAIK


However, according to Hammertime on here who claims to own a petrol station, its all the same stuff so I don't know who is selling what!!!

ShadowHearth

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I think all performance cars are sensitive to petrol octance.

I could map it for 95 RON but that's going against every reason I have for buying the car and the software I got. I don't think that's going to happen

well i always would go for a safe setup then high power dodgy setup. my skyline was 400hp on 95 ron and it was really safe, there would be barely any knocks in it at high power, i dont even talk about cruising.

remap from 99 to 95 wont mean lesser hp. You will make mixture a bit more richer and increase boost. I would even do mixture a bit more richer, then lean. Yes it will use a bit more fuel, but like you said - life is to short, to worry about mpg. And having engine blown, because of the dodgy fuel will make life even shorter.

pa990

unkel wrote: »

captainspeed wrote: »

I thought all petrol here now was E5, meaning that everything is supposed to be 99 RON?

My thoughts exactly. But the knocking seems to prove the OP is still getting undiluted RON 95? I thought nobody sold that anymore

Did you try other petrol stations in your area?

Or alternatively, use the undiluted RON 95 but add 5 liters of E85 per every full tank

E85 isn't sold any more in this county

MetzgerMeister

ShadowHearth wrote: »

well i always would go for a safe setup then high power dodgy setup. my skyline was 400hp on 95 ron and it was really safe, there would be barely any knocks in it at high power, i dont even talk about cruising.

remap from 99 to 95 wont mean lesser hp. You will make mixture a bit more richer and increase boost. I would even do mixture a bit more richer, then lean. Yes it will use a bit more fuel, but like you said - life is to short, to worry about mpg. And having engine blown, because of the dodgy fuel will make life even shorter.

Yes, I don't bother with MPG but at the same time, I don't want to be using more fuel than I have to by having it running rich.

The map that's on it now was done for 95RON but there's still some knocking. If it comes to having to add a bottle of octane booster then so be it but I'm trying to find out about petrol stations that have 98+RON before I resign myself to that idea.

Drummerboy08

I've a large amount of work done on this topic.....

I've found that both the Supra and the Golf ran better when using fuel from either Maxol or Topaz. Both retailers seem to have the best quality and highest octane fuel around.

However, I'm using a bottle of Millars CVL Turbo with nearly every tank that goes into the car.

It costs between 10/15 euro depending on where you buy it, and how much of it you buy.

It does make all the difference though.

MetzgerMeister

I always get my petrol from one of two Topaz's in town. A friend of mine works at one of them and the other is on my way home from work if I take a certain road.

Where can I buy the Millers stuff? I'd be buying them by the box rather than one at a time.

Drummerboy08

Most decent Auto factors should stock Millars, but I buy mine in Southside Auto Factors.

Nonoperational

Been discussed many many times on this forum. Maxol E5 is supposed to be 99.2 RON, they are the only company in Ireland that make any claims other than 95RON.

MarkR

They have it in halfords.

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=millers&department=all&action=search&storeId=11101&catalogId=15551&langId=-1

ShadowHearth

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Yes, I don't bother with MPG but at the same time, I don't want to be using more fuel than I have to by having it running rich.

The map that's on it now was done for 95RON but there's still some knocking. If it comes to having to add a bottle of octane booster then so be it but I'm trying to find out about petrol stations that have 98+RON before I resign myself to that idea.

If it has so much knock that you notice it like that with no reading, then was clearly a shiet mapping m8. You willing to pay 15eu extra on booster, why not have it mapped properly and have the peace of your mind and then use that 10-15eu if it will be a bit richer ( it won't be even that much ).

MetzgerMeister

ShadowHearth wrote: »

If it has so much knock that you notice it like that with no reading, then was clearly a shiet mapping m8. You willing to pay 15eu extra on booster, why not have it mapped properly and have the peace of your mind and then use that 10-15eu if it will be a bit richer ( it won't be even that much ).

I don't notice it at all. Like I said, data logs are showing this to be the case.

MetzgerMeister

MarkR wrote: »

They have it in halfords.

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=millers&department=all&action=search&storeId=11101&catalogId=15551&langId=-1

Hmmm "treats 20 litres of unleaded". :rolleyes:

Lucas octane booster, it treats a full 60+ litre tank.

Shane732

My understanding is that Maxol and Topaz is essentially the same petrol, i.e. E5 petrol.

I'm told that it is the Ethanol additive that boasts the rating for 95 to 98/99 as opposed to the actual octane level being higher. I don't know how much difference this actually makes to the petrol (i.e. is 98 rated petrol not 98 rated problem regardless of whether is through octane or ethanol?).

Anyway to cut a long story short I've been advised to avoid Maxol and Topaz fuel as the ethanol additive can lead to the HPFP issue on the 335i's rearing it's ugly head.

I now use Esso fuel.

TBH I don't think there is much difference between any petrol out there in Ireland at the moment.

I know for the Cannonball last year all the lads were desperate to have a map of the Maxol fuel network to fill up their cars.

TestTransmission

MarkR wrote: »

They have it in halfords.

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=millers&department=all&action=search&storeId=11101&catalogId=15551&langId=-1

Silly price as usual from Halfords .MM, let us know what price you can source a case for.

Gary ITR

Pull the map before you melt a piston. If youre gettink knock on pump fuel you'll need more than e5 to fix it. E5 plus cvl is your only option

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Just to throw a spanner in the work I thing the E5 burns cooler than non ethanol petrol, this can leave carbon deposits on injectors etc and cause some problems like shane said above. I found the 335i ran like crap but the NA car I have now runs great with it.

Shane732

Marco Ashy Owl wrote: »

Just to throw a spanner in the work I thing the E5 burns cooler than non ethanol petrol, this can leave carbon deposits on injectors etc and cause some problems like shane said above. I found the 335i ran like crap but the NA car I have now runs great with it.

Are you using Maxol petrol all the time in the M?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

only since my local station went to €1.61..have to say cars running well on it after a few tanks, but it may be that I was driving a 1.6 tdi A3 rental car for a couple of weeks on holidays, which was pretty weak.

conzy

Your putting way to much faith in the software... has the engine ever actually knocked under heavy acceleration? the car always ran like a bat out of hell on 95 ron without issue. Get a good 95 Ron map for it..

MetzgerMeister

conzymaher wrote: »

Your putting way to much faith in the software... has the engine ever actually knocked under heavy acceleration? the car always ran like a bat out of hell on 95 ron without issue. Get a good 95 Ron map for it..

You said yourself that the software was brilliant :P

Drummerboy08

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

You said yourself that the software was brilliant :P

The other side of it is, whoever actually mapped the car could have knock dectection switched off. It could be down to the map itself.

You have that car a while now, so if it never actually gave knock before the map then I'd suspect it's something in the map itself.

MetzgerMeister

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The other side of it is, whoever actually mapped the car could have knock dectection switched off. It could be down to the map itself.

You have that car a while now, so if it never actually gave knock before the map then I'd suspect it's something in the map itself.

The only reason I know it's giving knock is because of data logging using the software that the maps are created/flashed with.

Knock is one of the parameters in the logging profile I'm using.

Seth Brundle

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I've a large amount of work done on this topic.....

Out of curiosity, what have you done?

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I've found that both the Supra and the Golf ran better when using fuel from either Maxol or Topaz. Both retailers seem to have the best quality and highest octane fuel around.

Topaz claim to be 95 RON!

Shane732 wrote: »

My understanding is that Maxol and Topaz is essentially the same petrol, i.e. E5 petrol.

it may well be the same (based on suggestions by Summertime) but their websites make quite different claims of their products in terms of octane rating.

coylemj

Maxol E5 is rated at 99 octane. The octane boost is an unintended consequence of adding ethanol to 95 RON Unleaded because Ethanol has an octane rating higher than unleaded.

However Ethanol has a lower energy rating (joules/litre) than Unleaded 95 petrol so what you gain on the swings you lose on the roundabout. The octane is boosted but the overall energy rating (joules/litre) is reduced - in the case of Maxol E5 it's 30.5 megajoules/litre vs. 31 MJ/litre for ordinary unleaded so there is a 1.6% reduction in energy per unit of fuel but the knocking problem is solved!

unkel

coylemj wrote: »

Maxol E5 is rated at 99 octane.

Any E5 (based on 95% RON 95) is octane 99. Afaik it is more profitable for the pumpholder to sell than RON 95, so I do not understand why anybody would still be selling RON 95.

And the OP doesn't notice knock, it's just the software telling him there is. A logical mind would start pointing the finger at the software here

pa990 wrote: »

E85 isn't sold any more in this county

Didn't know that! Bet the owners of all the flexifuel cars are still laughing they got away with the low / no VRT when they bought them...

Mycroft H

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The other side of it is, whoever actually mapped the car could have knock dectection switched off. It could be down to the map itself.

You have that car a while now, so if it never actually gave knock before the map then I'd suspect it's something in the map itself.

The only reason I know it's giving knock is because of data logging using the software that the maps are created/flashed with.

Knock is one of the parameters in the logging profile I'm using.

So it's gone from a serious knock to something that the logging software is picking up. I'm with unkel on this one, I would look at the accuracy and the reliability of the software. Occams Razor

wandererz

Typically fill up at Topaz or Maxol as they are the only ones close to me.
Have been adding about 50ml of Millers to a tank every now and again.

However, added 50ml to approx half a tank the other day and the vehicle seems much smoother and perhaps even has that bit more power which i've been missing the past two months or so.

Gary ITR

If you're getting knock you won't neccessarily hear it. Tuners use a device called the 'knock box' to detect it. I would doubt the software is an issue it has to be the map itself. Everytime you drive the car you are riskong catastrophic damage.

tipptom

A little of topic but the consumer show was on last night about laundered diesal garages and right at the end of the piece they just threw in something very rushed about the petrol in these garages as well,something to do with stretching it and ethonol.We have a very cheap place that sells diesal which I would never buy of them but buy their petrol as its about 6c cheaper as i thought safe in the knowledge that they dont interfere with it with no dye through it?.

Wolverine_1999

This country is such a complete balls. Not only are we hounded for motor tax, but the amount of tax on fuel is ridiculous on top of the fact that the fuel taxed is the ****ty old 95 fuel.

Petrol prices are mostly on par with the rest of the Europe and they use 98 as standard. Complete and utter bull**** is this country. Complete and utter..

TDR.ie

E5 topaz or maxol is not 99 octane , it certainly doesn't respond like 98-99 octane fuel regarding knock protection . Its 96 ish at the best

TDR.ie

TDR.ie wrote: »

E5 topaz or maxol is not 99 octane , it certainly doesn't respond like 98-99 octane fuel regarding knock protection . Its 96 ish at the best

If you want a great octane booster , mix in 10% methanol with your petrol

msg11

I'll be filling up at Apple Green, I feel out with Maxol over there refusal to sell me 5 euros worth of petrol. Also, I though Topaz didn't sell e5 ?

mikeecho

msg11 wrote: »

I'll be filling up at Apple Green, I feel out with Maxol over there refusal to sell me 5 euros worth of petrol. Also, I though Topaz didn't sell e5 ?

My understanding is that All petrol is at least E5

unkel

TDR.ie wrote: »

E5 topaz or maxol is not 99 octane , it certainly doesn't respond like 98-99 octane fuel regarding knock protection . Its 96 ish at the best

Just looked into this and you are right.

Ethanol has an octane of 113. This means that E5 (5% ethanol, 95% RON95) has an octane of only 96. You need E20 to get an octane of 99