Johnes Disease - Eradication plan

pakalasa

Looks like they are going to get an eradication programme up and running by next year.
"Mr Flaherty (of AHI) warned farmers that eradicating Johnes would not be as straightforward as BVD".......:rolleyes:

http://www.independent.ie/farming/news-features/johnes-eradication-plan-to-start-in-january-2013-3127142.html

bob charles

pakalasa wrote: »

Looks like they are going to get an eradication programme up and running by next year.
"Mr Flaherty (of AHI) warned farmers that eradicating Johnes would not be as straightforward as BVD".......:rolleyes:

http://www.independent.ie/farming/news-features/johnes-eradication-plan-to-start-in-january-2013-3127142.html

5 to 7 years too late before they bothered to do anything. The amount of BVD animals that are showing up this year is way higher than in the past. Closing the door when the horse has bolted. If we had adopted sensible measures aka the dutch protocol 5 years ago it would have being easy to eradicate

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

"Mr Flaherty (of AHI) warned farmers that eradicating Johnes would not be as straightforward as BVD".......:rolleyes:

I don't think BVD is straighforward. This year its only the health conscious people who are testing for bvd and there are quite enough positive animals identified. Wait till next year when every farmer will be required to test for bvd. There will be a significant increase in positive animals identified.

bob charles

reilig wrote: »

I don't think BVD is straighforward. This year its only the health conscious people who are testing for bvd and there are quite enough positive animals identified. Wait till next year when every farmer will be required to test for bvd. There will be a significant increase in positive animals identified.

is it illegal yet to sell a BVD, either a PI or just infected

greysides

bob charles wrote: »

is it illegal yet to sell a BVD, either a PI or just infected

Unethical, yes!

Illegal, not so sure. There are grounds where a legal case might be made but I'm not sure it has been tested in court.For next year, I believe, there will be efforts made to make selling a PI animal illegal.

Re: Johne's

I think the 'Eradication' is too strong a word. 'Control Programme' might be better.

bob charles

greysides wrote: »

Unethical, yes!

Illegal, not so sure. There are grounds where a legal case might be made but I'm not sure it has been tested in court.For next year, I believe, there will be efforts made to make selling a PI animal illegal.

Re: Johne's

I think the 'Eradication' is too strong a word. 'Control Programme' might be better.

Due you think that Ireland would be better off spending 4 years concentrating on BVD and leave Johnes on the sideline or I suppose allot of Johne's cases are being diagnosed with the eye as BVD.

greysides

I think we should publicly leave Johne's alone for a couple of years. There's going to be a lot of disgruntled people around next year when the BVD scheme becomes compulsory. Best to leave it wait for a couple of years till that has settled in before introducing a new component.
This is on a psychological basis rather than a scientific one.

The preliminary and set up work can be done, of course.

The idea of disease control carries with it very poor PR in Ireland. Most people would immediately be inclined to be reticent about it. However it is the way forward.

Hence, my comment about Johne's (a close cousin of TB), those two diseases will be very difficult to 'eradicate' due to their inherent characteristics. Other diseases, with full co-operation, are eradicable. But for now, some goodwill needs to be built up for the idea of disease eradication so hopefully when the benefits of the BVD scheme are realised that goodwill and appetite for a further fight will be there.

But, to re-re-iterate, Johne's will be a control scheme. Currently, with the state of scientific knowledge, the guns aren't there to eradicate it.

bob charles

greysides wrote: »

I think we should publicly leave Johne's alone for a couple of years. There's going to be a lot of disgruntled people around next year when the BVD scheme becomes compulsory. Best to leave it wait for a couple of years till that has settled in before introducing a new component.
This is on a psychological basis rather than a scientific one.

The preliminary and set up work can be done, of course.

The idea of disease control carries with it very poor PR in Ireland. Most people would immediately be inclined to be reticent about it. However it is the way forward.

Hence, my comment about Johne's (a close cousin of TB), those two diseases will be very difficult to 'eradicate' due to their inherent characteristics. Other diseases, with full co-operation, are eradicable. But for now, some goodwill needs to be built up for the idea of disease eradication so hopefully when the benefits of the BVD scheme are realised that goodwill and appetite for a further fight will be there.

But, to re-re-iterate, Johne's will be a control scheme. Currently, with the state of scientific knowledge, the guns aren't there to eradicate it.

They would be my thoughts aswell as there is going to have to be a big burden carried with all the positives from BVD. As I said it has gotten noticeably worse for us this year with the amount of suspect BVD animals around.

greysides

there is going to have to be a big burden carried with all the positives from BVD

Depends how you look on it.

Who is getting best value for money...?

Paddy, who tests his 50 calves, has no PI's but knows his calves are clear and suitable for breeding and has proof of it should he wish to sell.

Jack, who tests his 50 calves, and has two PI's, and knows:

1. His remaining calves are clear and safe to keep for breeding.
2. Has proof for sale.
3. Can expect better health and fertility in his herd as a result of his actions.

You could argue Jack is getting a better return on the money spent.

(The PI's were going to die anyway probably leaving further debt for poor ole Jack.)


................it depends how you look at it.

jay gatsby

(The PI's were going to die anyway probably leaving further debt for poor ole Jack.)


................it depends how you look at it.[/QUOTE]


Terrible hard to be this philosophical if it happens in your own yard though.

greysides

jay gatsby wrote: »

Terrible hard to be this philosophical if it happens in your own yard though.

I appreciate that, honestly.

Let's say you've six PIs on your farm, in the age group 0-2 years old.
This wouldn't be common but not unknown.

In that kind of scenario you'll probably have some significant health problems in the farm, of the lingering hard-to-sort-out type which are causing losses in deaths -both the PIs and their victims, treatment costs, ill-thrift and time.
Remove those six animals, 4 to the knackers, 2 to the factory (as a likely scenario) and the level of virus flying around drops hugely and virtually instantly. So much so that younger calves tested in six months time may show no exposure to the virus (antibody tests for exposure).
The effects of this are hard to quantify. But the usual comment is about the marvellously healthy calves of this years crop and how it was a pleasure to rear them, how few got sick and how easily they were treated.
This is not accounting for fertility which is harder to appreciate.

It's not nice to have to send healthy looking treasonous saboteurs to the knackers but keep your eye on the prize as you do so- it may help.

The harder the hit, the greater the long term benefit.

LostCovey

greysides wrote: »

I think we should publicly leave Johne's alone for a couple of years. There's going to be a lot of disgruntled people around next year when the BVD scheme becomes compulsory. Best to leave it wait for a couple of years till that has settled in before introducing a new component.

I can see the logic of that approach, but I don't agree with it Greysides.

The counter-argument is FoodHarvest 2020 and the planned massive increase in the breeding herd esp on the dairy side. We have actually very little Johnes disease compared to other countries, and could secure this & even improve it with a good programme now.

Johnes Disease will explode if they do nothing and that level of expansion happens with no control programme in place.

My two cents.

LostCovey

LostCovey

greysides wrote: »

Unethical, yes!

Illegal, not so sure. There are grounds where a legal case might be made but I'm not sure it has been tested in court.For next year, I believe, there will be efforts made to make selling a PI animal illegal.

Re: Johne's

I think the 'Eradication' is too strong a word. 'Control Programme' might be better.

At the moment selling a PI is the equivalent of selling an NCT test failure car, or a dangerously defective shotgun - if you know it's defective, then you bear the consequences if you sell it and it does harm (could be a lot of exposure to liability for the seller of a PI going into a pregnant herd).

LostCovey

bob charles wrote: »

5 to 7 years too late before they bothered to do anything.

There is no "they" if you are talking about Animal Health Ireland, they is "us" - farmers, vets govt & industry in partnership.

And "they" didn't exist 5-7 years ago.

bob charles wrote: »

The amount of BVD animals that are showing up this year is way higher than in the past.

It's not "way higher" Bob , BVD PIs disclosed by the AHI programme if anything slightly less than was predicted.

BVD has been with us for decades, despite the number of people who think its a new or increasing disease and the only things that have changed about it are:

- scientific knowledge of the virus & the disease
- better tests
- awareness, knowledge, esp re the hidden cost
- the example of other countries eradicating it

bob charles wrote: »

If we had adopted sensible measures aka the dutch protocol 5 years ago it would have being easy to eradicate

In a way you have a point, but in another way you are missing it!

The Dutch had a programme that identified high risk herds, devalued the heifers in these herds, so nobody would buy them but Paddy.

And by God, Paddy bought them in droves.

Paddy is leaning over a mart rail somewhere in Romania this year, waving away at the auctioneer and sickening all the local tanglers & jobbers, cos say what you like, Paddy knows a chape calf when he sees one.

LostCovey

greysides

LostCovey wrote: »

The Dutch had a programme that identified high risk herds, devalued the heifers in these herds, so nobody would buy them but Paddy.

And by God, Paddy bought them in droves.

/QUOTE]

Ah so! That's where all the freemartins came from..........! Haven't seen a foreign tag around for years.

bob charles

LostCovey wrote: »

There is no "they" if you are talking about Animal Health Ireland, they is "us" - farmers, vets govt & industry in partnership.

Most Farmers had never heard of BVD 7 yrs ago, It was "their" job to inform and take the necessary steps to quickly eliminate BVD.

LostCovey wrote: »

It's not "way higher" Bob , BVD PIs disclosed by the AHI programme if anything slightly less than was predicted.

To clarify I am coming across allot more cases this year in buying animals than I didn't last year and more so again than 2 yrs ago. the % of my herd with BVD animals is rising. Thankfully my herd is end of the road for all these animals. probably still under 1% of animals slaughtered that are showing visual signs, suppose add another 1% not showing but with lack of thrive

LostCovey wrote: »

In a way you have a point, but in another way you are missing it!

The Dutch had a programme that identified high risk herds, devalued the heifers in these herds, so nobody would buy them but Paddy.

It was a little more technical than that though.

Do imported animals just come in to Ireland straight or do they have to be tested and free from any disease?

sprintcow

Neighbour of mine got it. Lost 6 cows!