Building a bike from frame up?

Finnt

Hi all,
Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here goes!
I've been asked by my younger brother to help him build a bike from frame up,
Problem is I'm a diesel mechanic and know feck all about bikes,
The only thing I've done with a bike in the last number of years is fit slicks to my mountain bike!
Basically what he wants is a hybrid mainly for the road but something that'll handle the odd trail as well,
I've tried to convince him to go to a shop and buy one off the "shelf" but he's determined!
I just wonder if anyone can point me in the direction on some reading about it before we start.
How do I know what wheels will suit the frame?
How will I know what gears to use?
What deraulier's will fit?
Are the a standard fit?

Sorry for the ling post but I've been googling and all discussions seem to come down to whether to build or buy complete, were definately going to build just need info!!
Thanks for reading

Holyboy

It's going to cost at least twice as much as buying a complete bike even if you source second hand parts, that's not even taking into account the tools needed to assemble it properly. Convince him to buy a new one or just buy it for him and save your self the hassle!!

Bigus

Surely the main reason for building a bike is because you can't get the spec you want off the shelf.

So if he doesn't even know what he wants it's goin to be doubly difficult.

Much cheaper to buy off the shelf.

My bike cost 1750 would have cost 2500 plus in components, plus the labour, plus to much bloody room for choice of components.

Imagine trying to build a custom diesel engine with this block that head and t'other fuel pump?

Finnt

I know it'll probably end up more expensive but it's what he wants,
Any good books or how to find out what bits will go with what frame?

Squidgy Black

Just buy a full chain set as opposed to separate mixed and matched parts.

You'll need tools like torque wrenches and a headset press that will really eat into your budget.

Tonyandthewhale

Can't think of anyone book that'll tell you exactly what you need to build a bike from the frame up but sheldon brown's website has pretty much all the info you need to do most stuff mechanical with most bikes. The parks tools website is also good for guides on how to do a lot of jobs (park tools are also a good source of decent tools although they're not cheap).

Personnally I enjoy building bikes from the ground up but then again I do repairs and upgrades for a large number of friends so a lot of free or dirt cheap parts pass through my workshop on a regular basis and I get regular use out of my tools so I get value out of them.
If you're just doing a one of build and have to buy everything you need f
or that build then it's a long way from economical. You could buy a cheap (but fully built) second hand bike that's close to what you want and just change the few things that need to be changed to get your perfect spec.

Also, a hybrid is a decent practical commuter (although I'd never bother with one personally) but it's not super fun on the road like a drop bar road bike is and while it'll get you from one end of a gentle off-road trail to the other (or it should, depending on the spec and the frame and how you ride it, and what you class as 'gentle,') it's still not going to be much good for proper 'off-road' riding if you know what I mean. Tell your brother to decide if he wants to build it for road use or off-road use and build (or buy) and appropriate bike*.

*Although if we really insists on a bike that can do both, build an expedition touring bike. Drop (or butterfly) bars and a 26in wheelset. That's whay I use when I want to mix long road miles with light off-roading but it's still comprimised. A cyclocross bike would also offer a similar somewhat workable but still comprimised mix of abilities.

ednwireland

i built up my commuter mainly because i broke the previous frame and had half the bits lying around. when i wanted a carbon framed racer i bought the whole bike (cos it was cheaper)

Kannon

Sorry to hijack the thread but my query follows fromt the OP's query.

I took my bike apart in January with a view to building it up with newer parts. Due to lack of time and knowledge I haven't got around to doing it yet. At this stage if I try to do it myself I will miss the whole "Summer". Can anyone advise what it would be reasonable to pay a bikeshop to build it up for me with my parts?

Finnt

Just off the phone to little bro, can't convince him to buy he has building a bike set in his head!!
He reckons a road bike now as there's a frame and forks on eBay he thinks he's going to but,
Will all road bike wheels fit all road bikes?
If not what's the difference?
And deraulier's and cranks and so on are they a standard fit?
Sorry if this is a really stupid question but I know duck all about bikes and as a lecturer in collage used to say "information is king!"
Thanks

Holyboy

Kannon wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread but my query follows fromt the OP's query.

I took my bike apart in January with a view to building it up with newer parts. Due to lack of time and knowledge I haven't got around to doing it yet. At this stage if I try to do it myself I will miss the whole "Summer". Can anyone advise what it would be reasonable to pay a bikeshop to build it up for me with my parts?

About 100 I would think, depending how much needs to be fitted and how much hassle it ends up being.

Tonyandthewhale

Finnt wrote: »

Will all road bike wheels fit all road bikes?
If not what's the difference?
And deraulier's and cranks and so on are they a standard fit?
Sorry if this is a really stupid question but I know duck all about bikes and as a lecturer in collage used to say "information is king!"
Thanks

Pretty much all modern road bikes take 700c wheels with modern road bikes having spacing for 130mm rear hub and 100mm front hub (standard on all modern road bike wheels). Older steel frames may be designed for narrower hubs (say 126mm on the rear and 100mm on the front) but since they're steel you can bend them slightly without worrying about damaging them.
Some older road bikes will also be designed for 27 1/4 inch wheels rather than 700c but you can generally fit 700c wheels in these frames (since 700c wheels are only slightly smaller) but you'll have to use long reach brakes which can be hard to find. Basically you should avoid anything designed for 27 1/4 inch wheels as it'll either be very old or fairly old (say 20 years at least) and pretty poor quality.

Cranks fit specific bottom bracket standards rather than specific frames. Aside from some of the modern carbon road bike frames which use the BB30 press fit bottom bracket, the majority of bicycle frames use either British or Italian threading and a bottom bracket that is either 68 or 73mm wide. Some older french bikes will use the obsolete french standard but you don't see many of them around.

As for derailleurs, most rear derailleurs can be fit to most frames (although many older frames don't incorporate a derailleur hangar or room for a replacable derailleur hangar and instead rely on built into the derailleur which you don't tend to get with modern derailleurs but I think you can get an adaptor).
Front derailleurs are either braze on (bolt onto a mounting point incorporated into the frame) or are clamp on (and have a clamping mechanism built into them (obviously there are different clamp sizes for different diameter seat tubes but that's not a major issue.
Beware that certain derailleurs will only work with certain shifters and cassettes though. For instance, you'll have difficulty mixing and matching campagnolo and shimano (it can be done with adaptors as far as I know but it's not standard procedure and officially it shouldn't work).

EDIT: Don't take my giving you advice on how to do this as any sort of endorsement of it as a good idea.
DOUBLE EDIT: There may be other things that you need to consider that I haven't thought to mentioned here so do more research before you start spending hundreds of euro on parts.

Finnt

Thanks Tony thats slot of info!

Finnt

Thanks Tony thats alot of great info, it gives me an idea what to start looking for.

Lumen

If neither you nor he have a preferences for specific parts then this project makes absolutely no sense. How are you going to choose?

Buy a complete bike, take it apart and build it up again.

smacl

Lumen wrote: »

Buy a complete bike, take it apart and build it up again.

Yep. Or buy a complete bike, and with the money you save, buy some upgrades to make it into something much closer to what you want. Similarly, a decent 2nd hand bike can make for a fun restoration / upgrade project.

Question: Are you doing it just to get the bike, or is a large part of the deal involved in the work / journey of the build process? If it's the former, just buy something good, as the time, cost of tools, and amount of frustration involved if you don't have the experience is substantial. Good 2nd hand hybrids can be great value, as people who spend big money on good hybrids more often than not soon realise they actually wanted a road bike, but unlike road bikes, hybrids do not hold their resale value when they come to sell. FWIW, I've spent a fair amount of time in recent months upgrading an older road bike, and continue to enjoy the process. Probably spent more money that I would have to get a similar spec new bike, but I'm still very pleased with the outcome.

One more question: What's your budget?

Finnt

I think a large part of it is building the bike, sourcing bits, ect. Rather than the actual finished project!
As I said it'd not me that's building it it's my brother he just wants my help (and a corner of the workshop!)
I've said it to him several times about buying a new bike, or a 2nd hand one and spending a couple of quid on it, but he's mind us set on building one.
As for budget he's planning to use as mich second hand stuff as possible but reckons about €800-€1000 should do it.

macnab

Try online videos like youtube etc.
Here is a good video for Dura-ace: http://vimeo.com/5780736
I built a Trek Madone 5.2 from scratch recently and still get great satisfaction out of telling people about the build.
In my case I couldnt find an off the shelf bike to suit my taste/height/build.
I am a mechanical fitter but I have been building bikes in all forms since I was 4 or 5 years old so I have 40 years of useless info to carry it off ha ha.
If you are medium height and medium build then there are any number of fantastic 56cm bikes for sale 2nd hand that will suit your needs.
But if you, or in this case your brother, want an adventure then have fun.

High Nellie

I'd recommend that you get the fork and bottom bracket bearing/spindle fitted when you buy the frame. The fork especially needs skill and special tools and needs to be done 'right'.. Anyone 'handy' can manage most of the rest with advice and guidance - you'll get plenty of that here.

CillianL

I built my current racing bike from the ground up last summer so I can answer this question.

I bought a clearance frame from cyclesuperstore last July and used a mix of new and old components to built it originally as a single speed touring bike with flat handlebars (what was I thinking!) and I later converted it into a racing set up with a double crankset and and 8 speed cassette.

To summarize the experience.

1.The sense of achievement and pride in creating the machine from the triumph of your own ability makes cannot be matched by a generic shop bought model.

2.Its not actually more expensive if you use your head. Shop around for decent second hand parts and you'll find what you need cheap enough.
I'd advise- Get Shimano parts such as the 'tourney' group set. Cheap unbranded parts are false economy.

3.For wheels Quando 700 x 23/28C will do fine for most frames but ask the frame dealer what size wheels it will take in advance.

4.You'll need some specialized tools such as a chain breaker, and a BB tool and good cable cutters. An ordinary pliers esp cheap ones are no use

5.Setting up the gears and brakes takes practice but its not brain surgery. It'll will take a while to get the hang of. Friction shifters are easier to set up than indexed shifters so get those if you're worried about it.

6. Be careful about buying second hand parts however. Make sure handlebars, stems and forks aren't cracked and that any second hand frame can have all its fittings removed and that all its treading is intact. Otherwise its junk that'll waste your money.

7. A work stand helps a lot, but isn't critical in the early stages of the build. However for setting up the brakes and gears they're essential.

8. Expect to encounter problems and it will take a while. It took me about two weeks for my first build

studiorat

Probably better off starting with a "donor bike" and working from there. That way you can see how it goes together and have a mix of new and old components to hand. If you buy new wheels and forget the skewers or something daft like that, I do it all the time! You'll have parts to keep the show on the road while you organize new ones.

Either way you'll get plenty of encouragement on the forum here!

And keep your eye out for the bike tool kit from Lidl or Aldi, I think that had a good few tools in a kit. And a good wire cutters. I wasted my youth for want of a decent wire cutters...

jtwoods

I've just finished building a cyclocross bike for myself.
I really enjoyed building it and had loads of parts already (wheels, rear mech, pedals, handlebars etc) but even so it cost loads to build.
I cut costs as best as I could by buying all the other components (all new), including frame off e-bay. Once you buy from reputable e-bay dealers you can save good money and there should be no problem with back-up.

Technically, building bikes is pretty easy once you take your time. Youtube is also full of demo videos for anything you're stuck on.

Also, agree with CillianL regarding second hand parts, tools (especially the cable cutter) and a work stand.
I used a Lidl work stand that cost me 25€.

The only job I didn't do was cut the fork. I got the mechanic in my local bike shop to do this as I didn't want to wreck it. btw he did it for free.

Good luck if you go ahead with it - its definitely worth it

piston

I enjoy building bikes up and would strongly recommend it to anyone to have a go. How else would you learn?

You can have the exact spec you want.

Finnt

Thanks all for the help no sign of a frame or anything yet! But I'll let ye know if well build one how it turns out. Thanks again

Finnt

Thanks all for all the advice, no sigh of a frame or anything yet! I'll put up pics when we build it. Thanks again

cdaly_

Also, this post from yesterday