Will I loose my BBC and ITV stations?

Postgrad10

I currently have the bbc and itv stations on analog as well as the all the Irish stations . I live near the north . When I get the saorview box , will I loose these stations ?

Peter Rhea

The NI analogue channels will start switching off & the 1st full power digital channels will start on October 10th. They will switch to digital completely on the 24th, the same date as the south.

You'll be able to view the analogue services up until then on your tv's tuner & a Saorview box will decode the standard definition Freeview (UK digital terrestrial) channels. You may even be able to receive the present low powered Freeview service.

Freeview HD will also commence broadcasting from NI at switchover. This can't be decoded by any current Saorview box but practically all Freeview HD boxes will decode the Saorview signal although they will obviously favour the UK service & its specifications.

Postgrad10

Thank you . Just keep it very simple for non technical me. Should I buy a freeview box as well as a saorview box or just a freeview box ?

Postgrad10

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Thank you . Just keep it very simple for non technical me. Should I buy a freeview box as well as a saorview box or just a freeview box ?

You might be best to get a Freeview HD box. A standard Freeview box won't do for Saorview, while a Saorview box will not do for Freeview HD. A Freeview HD box will handle both, but some boxes have minor bugs with Saorview.

Peter Rhea

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Thank you . Just keep it very simple for non technical me. Should I buy a freeview box as well as a saorview box or just a freeview box ?

Where are you & do you know which NI transmitter you receive from?

Might make it easier to judge your chances of reliable Freeview reception, no point in buying a box specially otherwise.

winston_1

You live in Ireland. Get a Saorview box. It will get all the Irish channels and the UK channels except the HD ones which only simulcast the SD ones.

If you get a (grey imported) Freeview HD box you will no doubt get UK and Irish HD channels but will have problems with the EPG and the clock being stuck on GMT all the year round on the Irish channels.

Sadly there is no box that is compatible with two countries. You thought analogue was bad, you aint seen nothing yet with digital.

watty

Winston_1
Bad advice for people that live near Border

Ronnie Raygun

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Should I buy a freeview box as well as a saorview box or just a freeview box ?

What's the make & model of your current tv? I would think there's the odd border area that would have decent analogue coverage atm but where you would struggle with Saorview or Freeview reception.

Your tv might be ok for both.

Ted Mosby

winston_1 wrote: »

You live in Ireland. Get a Saorview box. It will get all the Irish channels and the UK channels except the HD ones which only simulcast the SD ones.

If you get a (grey imported) Freeview HD box you will no doubt get UK and Irish HD channels but will have problems with the EPG and the clock being stuck on GMT all the year round on the Irish channels.

Sadly there is no box that is compatible with two countries. You thought analogue was bad, you aint seen nothing yet with digital.

Huh? Since when did the North and the Republic exist in different time zones? Haven't heard any reported problems between Freeview HD and Saorview either.

Sam Russell

Solair wrote: »

Actually, you sort of have that backwards.

Saorview broadcasts using MPEG4
Frewview HD also broadcasts using MPEG4
Frewview Standard Definition uses MPEG2.

Saorview boxes will only decode Frewview HD, they can't see the older MPEG2 channels.

Sorry, that is completely wrong.

Saorview sets will only receive DVB-T broadcasts and will not see the DVB-T2 broadcasts of FreeeviewHD. If they did receive them, then they could decode them as they are both in MPEG4, but the receiver cannot see the signal.

Saorview sets will receive Freeview broadcasts because they are both DVB-T. Saorview can decode MPEG2 and MPEG4 so you can watch Freeview and Saorview on a Saorview set, assuming you can get a signal.

A FreeviewHD set can watch Saorview and Freeview broadcasts. However, there are difficulties in that the UK D Book standard is secret and there are different interpretations of the standard. Consequently, sets made for the UK market can show 'funny' interpretations of the standard, and, for example, refuse to show summertime correctly when receiving Saorview broadcasts.

@Solair - could you edit/remove your erroneous post so as not to confuse others.

byte

Ted Mosby wrote: »

Huh? Since when did the North and the Republic exist in different time zones? Haven't heard any reported problems between Freeview HD and Saorview either.

It is a known fault with some FreeviewHD boxes, whereby it didn't recognise to change to Summer Time if it wasn't receiving signal from a Freeview Tx.

copacetic

By far the best bet is a free view HD box if you are close to a NI transmitter. When the NI Mux starts up you will get TG4, RTE1 and RTE2 via it even if for some reason you had issues with Saorview which is unlikely.

Peter Rhea

Solair wrote: »

Saorview box - Will receive Saorview only. No MPEG2 decoder in the box, so it will not decode Freeview SD

Rubbish, it's backwards compatible. The OP here asked a fairly straightforward question & now this thread has descended into the kind of confusion that's getting all too common here.

copacetic

Solair wrote: »

To correct my summary :

FreeView HD box - will receive Freeview / Freeview HD and most likely also Saorview (with possible glitches, especially for interactive services)

Saorview box - Will receive Saorview only. No MPEG2 decoder in the box, so it will not decode Freeview SD and won't see Freeview HD due to lack of DVB-T2

FreeView SD box - Will receive FreeView and may also see Saorview channels, but will not be able to view them - i.e. you'll see the EPG info, and hear audio only. There's no MPEG4 decoder in the box.

To be perfectly honest, this stuff just makes a mockery of the EU and EBU's attempts to harmonise anything!

This was a perfect opportunity to get rid of the umpteen different tweaks of PAL and SECAM that caused issues for people moving around Europe and also for people living in border areas and also made televisions more expensive as they couldn't get economies of scale.

Instead, we've managed to end up with more or less the same mess, only this time it's umpteen different tweaks of DVB-T.

I wonder if we're just going to see a lot of TVs that just support an array of standards rather than national-specific ones?

i.e. if you've a generic tuner/decoder that supports MPEG2 / 4 and DVB-T and DVB-T2 standards it can tune into most broadcasts. The interactive service protocols aren't quite as straight-forward though.

Correcting your summary by again posting an incorrect summary isn't at all
helpful. It's a publicly available clear as day specification.

http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/Minimum_Receiver_Requirements_5.pdf

section 2
MPEG4 HD Level mandatory on all IRD which among other things include:
   
Video decoding (see 5.2)
MPEG4 HP@L4 HDTV
MPEG4 HP@L3 SDTV
MPEG2 SDTV

5.2. Video
The IRD shall support video decoding for;
 MPEG2 video decoding up to MainProfileatMainLevel(MP@ML)

Solair

I'm just deleting all my threads/posts and getting my coat!

ei9go

The real answer to this question is to put up a dish get a freesat HD box and forget about terrestrial tv if it's only BBC and ITV you are interested in.

The only setup in a fressat box is to enter a UK postcode so you can enter a London postcode and forget about BBC NI and UTV forever.

Solair

Look, I have deleted ALL my previous posts that caused confusion.

Please feel free to remove the quotes your various responses which are probably also causing confusion.

I was only trying to help and obviously bit off more than I could chew with this stupidly confusing collection of incompatible video transmission systems.

I have absolutely no intentions of ever posting anything to do with Saorview / Freeview or any DVB-T technology ever again.

pontia

why are people using loose which refers to something thats slack or ill fitting instead of lose as in lost,getting more common,its wrong

Solair

pontia wrote: »

why are people using loose which refers to something thats slack or ill fitting instead of lose as in lost,getting more common,its wrong

It's probably for much the same reason that many people post without using any capitalisation or punctuation.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist!):D

It's the internet, people make typos!...

ardmacha

The real answer to this question is to put up a dish get a freesat HD box and forget about terrestrial tv if it's only BBC and ITV you are interested in.

I don't think this is particularly helpful either. If the OP has an aerial in place, then it is not clear that the additional effort of erecting a Satellite dish would give him any advantages in relation to this original question. The only complication relates to the NI digital services not being at full power until October, making it difficult to assess your signal before then. I suggested a sticky on this issue, as there have been several questions more or less like the OPs and a lot of information in these threads is either repeated or of dubious value.

Peter Rhea

Yes, a lot of these threads can get to be 3 or 4 pages long before the OP has even provided enough information for any decent replies to be given.

Solair

With regard to losing the stations: No, if the OP does the right thing he/she should end up with drastically more stations than with analogue as they can dip into Freeview HD + Saorview.

As I see it there are a few questions:

1) Does the OP get the existing RTE/TV3/TG4 and UTV/BBC/C4/C5 feed from a single antenna, or do they have two antennae with the signals combined?

2) What box should the OP buy? FreeView HD? or do they need something else?

3) is it possible to combine Saorview + Freeview signals and decode them on a single box? I would assume the multiplexes in border areas don't interfere with each other as they'd be planned not to. I know some old analogue setups had to use attenuators and various other devices to prevent one antenna feed from interfering with the other when signals were combined.

I know I have seen French digital TVs working quite happily with Spanish channels in the 800 numbers in border areas.

I would assume a Freeview HD box would decode the Freeview HD services as normal and then would add the SaorView services on higher channel numbers?

4) Are there any specific boxes that are recommended?

SalteeDog

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Yes, a lot of these threads can get to be 3 or 4 pages long before the OP has even provided enough information for any decent replies to be given.

Maybe we should put up a sticky with a list of the pieces of information that should be provided by posters requesting advice on their set-up?

Peter Rhea

@ Solair, read the first 8 or so replies to this thread & tell me why you think it's worth anyone's while posting anything else until the OP responds.

Solair

Peter Rhea wrote: »

@ Solair, read the first 8 or so replies to this thread & tell me why you think it's worth anyone's while posting anything else until the OP responds.

I donno, coz maybe it's all *VERY* confusing technical information scattered through a whole load of posts?

A sticky explaining what people need to do in border areas would seem logical (as mentioned above). There are a lot of people going to be rather confused by this situation over the next few months as the two analogue networks switch off.

The same information's going to be required by any poster looking for it and it would avoid a lot of confusion!

A lot of people are being conned into buying unnecessary extra equipment and there's total misinformation circulating in the media. I have heard people suggesting that Saorview requires a satellite dish on national radio and I know of a few cases of elderly folk in Dublin who have purchased Saorview boxes and plugged them into UPC analogue cable and wondered why they didn't work. UPC to them = "the aerial socket"..

There's a major lack of simple, understandable information.

Peter Rhea

I was really wondering wrt individual threads, why people don't think twice before posting their 'useful' information on a thread that's already said all it can until further input from the person who actually asked the question in the 1st place.

Peoples' reception situation in border areas is probably best dealt with on an individual basis, rather than trying to account for every variable in a sticky thread that would probably just be ignored anyway.

Sam Russell

I think one major confusion comes from people's beleif that the Digital service starts on October 24th. It is currently in place and can be received in most places for the last year. There will be small changes, like Mt Leinster changing channel and a few power changes, but apart from that everything is in place.

The situation in NI is quite different. They start the changeover on the 10th October with the switch-off of BBC2 with the rest switching off on the 24th October. It will not be untill analogue switches off that the DTT signal can be switched on. Only a fortnight is given for signal checking of the first mux - not long. Consequently, there will be severe logistical problems in NI that will not exist here.

The point should be hammered home here that Saorview is there now - for 98% of the population. It is not the future - it is there now. And it is FREE.

ardmacha

Peoples' reception situation in border areas is probably best dealt with on an individual basis, rather than trying to account for every variable in a sticky thread that would probably just be ignored anyway.

People will have specific issues. However, I suggest that general issues should be in a sticky and regular posters or moderators should simply refer people there unless they post a question not dealt with.

The sticky can address
- can a Saorview set/box receive Freeview
- the role of Freeview HD equipment and people's experiences with it also receiving Saorview
- why I have analogue now but cannot get Freeview
- outlines of known issues with particular areas
- what to do in October

watty

It's all on http://www.saortv.info as well

Mr. Rabbit

but some boxes have minor bugs with Saorview.

The Technisat sold by Currys springs to mind, although, I can't think of any others that don't actually receive Saorview

The Humax boxes are fine (as far as I'm aware) and are being supplied by the self help scheme (for those who qualify) if you want to receive either Saorview or the NIMM (or Freeview HD).