Dublin Bus Stages

Howlin

Hi all

Can any one explain to me the stages deal with dublin bus, how many bus stops per stage?

The_Wrecker

If the driver knows the stages you get charged the correct fare, if not you may be under/over charged.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Fare-Information/Fares/

coylemj

Howlin wrote: »

Hi all

Can any one explain to me the stages deal with dublin bus, how many bus stops per stage?

There's no set formula. Stages are used to determine the fare so in general terms, they are based on distance but as the distance between bus stops is based on local demand and population density, there is no fixed ratio of stops per stage.

Nolimits

It's a bit of a joke really that they have these arbitrary stages, that from a bus stop at least there is no way of finding out about and then want exact fare.

AlekSmart

Nolimits wrote: »

It's a bit of a joke really that they have these arbitrary stages, that from a bus stop at least there is no way of finding out about and then want exact fare.

Well put.

It's sort of tragi-comedic that Dublin bus management are currently beavering away at yet another set of cost-saving internal changes whilst totally ignoring the scaringly basic stuff as outlined above by NoLimits......are they actually unaware of these things or is there a hidden agenda ?

AdMMM

Am I right in saying that if you get on at the stop listed as 59 41 and get off at a stop listed as 56 44 that you subtract the second part of your final stop (in this case 44) from the first part of your first stop (59).

So 59 - 44 = 15, meaning I'll have to pay €2.40?

Such a confusing system!

foggy_lad

AdMMM wrote: »

Am I right in saying that if you get on at the stop listed as 59 41 and get off at a stop listed as 56 44 that you subtract the second part of your final stop (in this case 44) from the first part of your first stop (59).

So 59 - 44 = 15, meaning I'll have to pay €2.40?

Such a confusing system!

No, your boarding stage will be 56 or 41 depending on your route and direction of travel, the higher number is the destination stage so in your case it is 4 stages in either direction as you count the stage you board at up to the one at or past your destination.

AlekSmart

AdMMM wrote: »

Am I right in saying that if you get on at the stop listed as 59 41 and get off at a stop listed as 56 44 that you subtract the second part of your final stop (in this case 44) from the first part of your first stop (59).

So 59 - 44 = 15, meaning I'll have to pay €2.40?

Such a confusing system!

Not at all confusing IF the actual Fare Stage is clearly marked on-street.

One can immediately see AdMM's difficulty here is identifying which stage is Inbound/Outbound.

This is almost like reinventing the wheel in a Company which tells us it's on hard-times and needs to attract more business.

The first item on it's customer attraction agenda then appears to be making it as difficult as possible for that customer to discern what their correct fare actually is....:rolleyes:

However,no amount of pleadings,arguements or whatever from front-line staff appears to count in this regard,as we will probably have to seek (expensive) assistance from an outside consultancy to identify the problem.....:(

bk

AlekSmart wrote: »

Not at all confusing IF the actual Fare Stage is clearly marked on-street.

Or have the journey planner on the website/iphone app automatically tell you the number of stages and fare of the planned journey.

Technically trivial to do.

The fact that they haven't done this leads me to believe that management have some agenda to make the whole fare system as difficult as possible to understand.

Perhaps they want to leave it get so bad that the Department of Transport, will let them revamp the whole fare system with a fixed fare or per km type fare system.

The alternative, that DB management really are that incompetent is too scary to imagine.

CIE

AlekSmart wrote: »

Not at all confusing IF the actual Fare Stage is clearly marked on-street.

One can immediately see AdMM's difficulty here is identifying which stage is Inbound/Outbound.

This is almost like reinventing the wheel in a Company which tells us it's on hard-times and needs to attract more business.

The first item on it's customer attraction agenda then appears to be making it as difficult as possible for that customer to discern what their correct fare actually is....:rolleyes:

However,no amount of pleadings,arguements or whatever from front-line staff appears to count in this regard,as we will probably have to seek (expensive) assistance from an outside consultancy to identify the problem.....:(

I used to have to look in the Dublin District timetable book (the one that they sold at newsagents) to figure out what was going on with the stages. Funny how the complicated way to do it is with the over-16 adult fares, yes? (Children's fares were two-tier: the lesser fare for under seven stages, the greater one for after seven.) And who really has time to look out of a bus window to take note of the stage number? never mind that those stage numbers never used to be posted too often at outlying termini.

DB should have gone to either flat fares or zone-based fares long ago; they traditionally only have one fare system that's zone-based, and that's when bus routes that travel the furthest from the city cross the "outer suburban" boundary (which has shifted outwards over the years along certain corridors), and that's even messed up with the stage-based fare system. At least with zones, you're not counting bus stops, and you get to know which stop is the point where the zone is crossed. (I doubt that DB would want to charge a low flat fare for a ride out to places like Ballyknockan, Balbriggan or Newtownmountkennedy though, even though it has the potential for attracting more passengers travelling in both directions.)

Don't forget that bureaucratic politicians always have to waste taxpayer euros on consultants even if they consult the public. With Network Direct, the consultation of the public has been after the fact and results in a backpedalling of the consultants' "recommendations", but only some of the time. When it comes to fare systems, though, practices like zone boundaries or flat fares are still a matter of best practice, and no consultation ought to be entailed...

bk

CIE wrote: »

DB should have gone to either flat fares or zone-based fares long ago;

A third option exists, the per km system like they have in Amsterdam.

You pay a flat fare when you enter the bus (e.g. 70c) and then a per km charge for every km traveled (e.g. 20c per km).

Obviously this new sort of fare system is only possible with modern technology, it requires Leap card, tag-on/tag-off and GPS controlled ticket machines.

But I believe it is the best system and "politically" the easiest system to implement, that benefits everyone:

- Should be possible for DB to set the fare levels at a level so that their isn't any loss from the fare box.
- Eliminates most fare evasion problems of people asking for a lower fare and taking a longer journey.
- People can't complain about some people paying less/more (as is possible with the current stage system and fixed fares), everyone pays the same, depending on how far they go.
- Much simpler to understand and use then the current system.

It also has other benefits:
- Makes mutli-mode transport much easier if Dart/LUAs use the same system. Basically you only pay the initial 70c flat fee once, you can then simply jump on another bus/luas/dart within 60 minutes and you just continue to pay the per km fee (which maybe higher or lower for other forms of travel).

- Could also be used by other private companies (e.g. Swords express) with a higher or lower per km fee.

- Could allow for higher or lower per km fees for off peak travel, late night travel, etc.

This would all need to be implemented in conjunction with a high flat fee (e.g. €3) to encourage people to take it up.

I think this system is by far the best option for Ireland. It gives great flexibility while have low "political" resistance.

foggy_lad

bk wrote: »

Or have the journey planner on the website/iphone app automatically tell you the number of stages and fare of the planned journey.

Technically trivial to do.

The fact that they haven't done this leads me to believe that management have some agenda to make the whole fare system as difficult as possible to understand.

Perhaps they want to leave it get so bad that the Department of Transport, will let them revamp the whole fare system with a fixed fare or per km type fare system.

The alternative, that DB management really are that incompetent is too scary to imagine.

They want to move to a system where the passenger states a destination and pays whatever fare the driver pulls out of the air, where the passenger is never paying the correct fare and if fined will have no recourse to appeal? This is the only reason I can see why they would completly abandon the fare stage system.

bk wrote: »

A third option exists, the per km system like they have in Amsterdam.

You pay a flat fare when you enter the bus (e.g. 70c) and then a per km charge for every km traveled (e.g. 20c per km).

Obviously this new sort of fare system is only possible with modern technology, it requires Leap card, tag-on/tag-off and GPS controlled ticket machines..................................................

This third option is a pipe dream and will never be possible with the seriously backward companies and management currently in place! Dublin Bus are completly incompetent and have yet to fully adapt to using the Leap card so imo will never be ready for further technology.

How could passengers ever trust the fare calculation was correct with a company that removes all indication of where you start and finish your journey?

bk

foggy_lad wrote: »

This third option is a pipe dream and will never be possible with the seriously backward companies and management currently in place! Dublin Bus are completly incompetent and have yet to fully adapt to using the Leap card so imo will never be ready for further technology.

How could passengers ever trust the fare calculation was correct with a company that removes all indication of where you start and finish your journey?

Dublin Bus are currently moving to ticket machines fare location being automatically updated by GPS this summer. So all the technological parts are in place to allow this to happen from this summer.

People could optionally log onto the leap website/app and check the cost and actual route of their journey (at least starting and ending points) and launch a request for refund if incorrect.

Of course you are correct, this would require far better integration and leadership then we have so far seen from DB and the NTA.