Hard to believe in this day and age

whattotdo

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/homosexuals-are-as-bad-as-rapists-polish-nurses-taught-3133178.html


Numerous people have said Euro 2012 shouldn't have been held there,I agree

2012 but some countries are so primitive,ignorant in their teachings.

Conor30

I'm really not surprised by this. Poland isn't like Western Europe country and it's very different from the Czech Republic or even Slovakia. Poland is like Ireland from the 1970s.

oisindoyle

Why were they allowed to join the EU? There should have been a precondition that they change their views /laws /teachings on homosexuality

Annasopra

I think that we need to step back a bit on this before jumping in and condemning and stereotypong Poland.

Firstly how accurate is this? Remember the completely fake independent article about the Pole

Secondly while it is certainly true that Polish governments in recent years made homophobic statements I think it's probably an exaggeration to compare it to 1970s Ireland. Remember Poland has an openly gay MP and the Worlds only openly transgender MP.

The culture and education system probably need some changing. I don't think it's fair to hop up and down with exaggerated stereotypes and automatically assume that every media report is correct.

1ZRed

That's just unreal. As much as I would have loved to go to the euros, I wouldn't go to any country where I'm discriminated against or worse even.
If they want my money they'd better get used to me because I come with it.

So that adds Poland to the list of places I'm not overly keen on going to because of my sexuality. Fair enough I'd only go because of the soccer but still.

Dubai, Abu dhabi, Jamaica, Barbados..... Damn. It's a long list of places I want to go:(

Ambersky

Don’t fool yourselves, church and state are not yet separate in this country either. The catholic church still has a heavy influence on the education of future doctors and nurses in this country too and it still has quite a say in the running of hospitals. Access to safe life saving abortion anyone?
People have changed in Ireland though and we are still in the process of change. Our moral compass is no longer necessarily pointing at Rome but don’t forget at one time here, church teaching was law and one of the worst expressions of this was when guards reported paedophile priests to their bishop not to the courts. Homosexuality was illegal because we were taught to see it as immoral. The catholic church is not alone on this one and we inherited and accepted the moral advice of the British who were guided by their religious beliefs too when it came to homosexuality.
The Polish people had a similar history to the Irish in that they have lived under an oppressive regime for many years and expressed a catholic identity as part of their struggle of liberation.
It will take them a while to see that it is not necessarily a good idea to exchange one master for another.
In the meantime it is important I think to criticise and fight, legally, personally and socially, homophobia wherever it is found.
So I think it is right to publish material as exposed in the Op and for the Polish people to hear an international reaction against it. What we are criticising is the homophobic behaviour of some Polish people and particularly institutionalised homophobia in the setting of biased test papers. What we are hoping for is freedom for our lovely LGBT brothers and sisters who are having some difficulties right now and could probably do with our support.
Polish people can if they wish to change their attitudes towards homosexuality and they probably will as they hear and experience different points of view than the ones they were brought up with. Just like we Irish are doing, not there yet, still more to do. Casting of first stones and all that.

1ZRed

Ambersky wrote: »

In the meantime it is important I think to criticise and fight, legally, personally and socially, homophobia wherever it is found.

Yeah you're right but I've more or less given up trying to convey my point to these religiously homophobic people.
I'm really bad for getting into arguments with them and I think I can argue fairly well and logically but it just doesn't do any good at all.
I'm respectful of them and their views and I only try to put my own across to them so they can understand where I'm coming from. Doesn't ever seem to work though, and no matter how many times I expose their hypocrisy, they just use this annoying phrase to justify discrimation; "because it's God's word".
How do I fight the God card without coming across as an ass for saying he's not real?

I don't think they care. They're just too deluded to see the damage they're doing to people outside of their beliefs and morals.
It's a sh1t situation but young people are so much more open minded and aren't at all bond by religion or god anymore so eventually the oldr generation will be replaced and their views will not be made mainstream anymore.
Think about it for a second, the average age of the priesthood is 65 isn't it? And with feck all young guys wanting to be priests, it won't be long before catholosim falls flat on its ass and starts to seriously decline.

foggy_lad

Ambersky the popes in rome and all those holy men are so much like that executed dictator who once ruled Romania, he banned all abortions and contraception and homosexuality and anything else that was a threat to his army, women had to have children and lots of them to make his army almost the largest in the union, It didn't matter that they were starving and freezing because all that monster saw was the numbers.

The church were doing the exact same for hundreds of years only it is a different army they were looking for, they wanted an army of poor hungry tearaway waifs and strays and poor little indigent bastards who were as illiterate and ignorant as their parents and all who went before them, the church said they would happily look after them in convents and orphanages and industrial schools and laundries for a reasonable fee(none of which was spent on the food and clothes and shoes it was meant for). This saved the struggling governments of the time the hassle of doing anything about this issue and also was the cheapest option for them.

homosexuality was mainly illegal here for so long because of the references to procreation which the holy men of god keep going on about, homosexuals were not worth feeding because they would not be procreating and adding to the numbers of children the church could get capitation grants for!

Caiseoipe19

1ZRed wrote: »

Yeah you're right but I've more or less given up trying to convey my point to these religiously homophobic people.
I'm really bad for getting into arguments with them and I think I can argue fairly well and logically but it just doesn't do any good at all.
I'm respectful of them and their views and I only try to put my own across to them so they can understand where I'm coming from.

Really? You called God as "some magical fairy in the sky" over in the Christianity forum. You call that being respectful of "them" and "their" views?

1ZRed

Cygnus wrote: »

Really? You called God as "some magical fairy in the sky" over in the Christianity forum. You call that being respectful of "them" and "their" views?

But do you know why? I was being likened to a pedophile and told that what I do is immoral and that I was using girls just to get off.
I admitt it was a low blow and it was in bad taste tbh but I got very frustrated defending myself while getting nowhere so I poked the bear.

What's done is done though and I try to hold my cool better now. It was just annoying to have my sexuality thrown down on and it doesn't help that I'm a guy that doesn't back down from confrontation either, so it was going to be a disaster of an argument from the start.

Ambersky

IZRed says
I'm really bad for getting into arguments with them and I think I can argue fairly well and logically but it just doesn't do any good at all…..
How do I fight the God card without coming across as an ass for saying he's not real

IZRed I think I can understand where you are coming from.
The God card is an impossible one to argue against and when someone holds it up in an argument that’s the end of it as far as they are concerned.
You can’t argue against God. It’s their trump card, an almost impossible situation.
A few observations however from having been there and done that and continuing to do it, sometimes getting it right and sometimes making a hash of it and learning as I go along.
First don’t expect to win arguments. Rarely do people stop in their tracks and say “hey you know what that was an excellent argument I never thought of it that way. I have now changed my mind”. I have seen that happen here on these boards and fair play to anyone with a healthy enough ego to be able to do it.
Usually it happens that people feel attacked and they defend and re attack and maybe never forget and feel wounded. We all do it at least a little bit I think.
However things do change, people change, political systems change, public opinion changes, sometimes in big steps and sometimes so slowly and imperceptively that you find yourself still reacting to a danger or a threat that is no longer there. (personal experience there)
All the arguments add up, you just add your bit to it. All the approaches and strategies, even the ones you now disagree with tactically are adding now to change. You just do your best and learn as you go along.
Then I also think it is an illusion to believe that it is desirable to leave emotion out of arguments or philosophy or to think that the inclusion of emotion means that the clear blue waters of logic are therefore muddied and useless. Pure logic can be exclusive and lacking in heart and just as ineffective at getting to the core of our issues as misdirected emotion. I think it is more desirable to understand how emotions work and to acknowledge and include them as an integral and important part of us, in conflict, argument and the development of a philosophy of life.
So I would say don't give up when you feel embarrassed at getting it wrong sometimes, or because you got angry or sad or any other emotion. Just use the experience to learn more about what is going on for you and maybe how to express yourself more effectively.
Finally as has been repeated here often by the moderators and others remember to attack the post not the poster.
It is ok to disagree totally with someone else's beliefs.
As I understand it a persons beliefs are something they identify with but it is not them, their beliefs can change and they as persons still exist.
Where it goes wrong I think is when we come to conclusions about the person who holds the belief like you are so stupid and …… to think like that you must be …… and all the people who think like you …….

whattotdo

http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=ap-euro2012-italy-cassano-gays


In keeping with Euro 2012 theme,here's another article from the Italy camp,thankfully the captain apologised,probably a forced apology but at least it shows such comments won't be accepted.

Silvics

Poland has alot of catching up to do with the west-remember the Iron curtain? We have quite a way to go ourselves too.