I'm 25 Can I AVOID Applying As A Mature Student??

SharpshooterTom

I'm currently looking into applying to dentistry and medicine courses, but I would need to repeat my a levels (which will take two years).

However I am getting conflicting reports that I HAVE to apply as a mature student regardless because of my age. Obviously I would prefer to just apply like everyone else and have my (repeated) grades taken into account. I would need A*AAA which is ridiculously high, but its possible.

I have two posters from two different forums telling me two different things:

Well how old are you? It's actually 23 that you are classed as one, and there is no getting around that. However you CAN choose to have your grades taken into account, you tick both boxes on the form basically. But it just lends weight to your application and you still have to go through the interview and have some life experience to show etc

Nursing, Midwifery and Med all require tests but looks like Dentistry is interview only.
This is useful anyway
http://www.tcd.ie/maturestudents/content/pdf/00106_TCD_MatureGuides2012.pdf

On the CAO form you can tick a box for mature, and this opens up all the sections you need to fill in as a mature student. However you still have to fill in all the other stuff that you would fill in for the undergraduate/straight from school route. You will be offered any spot for which you are eligible, so by ticking the mature box you are opening up another avenue, but if you meet the undergraduate/straight from school requirements you will still be offered that place.

I know of somebody who had been offered RCSI mature, but had done exceptionally well in the HPAT and when the CAO offers came out after the LC, they were offered an undergraduate/straight from school place in another college. I can only assume their RCSI mature spot was offered to the next person on their waiting list, and this is one of the reasons there can still be movement till quite close to when colleges start.

You see the thing is I've just finished my (electrical and electronic engineering) undergraduate in 2010, and then did a masters recently, so I don't have a lot of experiance and wondering if that will hold me back if I was judged on that. I'm basically looking for a career change, I've done one years placement in an engineering company and thats it.

So I just want to clarify with Irish universities and anyone one here what the situation is. Can I just apply through grades/points system only like everyone else (which I prefer), or do I have to be taken into account as a mature student and my grades wont mean that much regardless if I repeat them?

Appreciate any help.

Old Perry

Not to sure about vets and doctors as they are medical science but for many other courses mature applicant would be the way to go as it could save you repeating a levels. Is there a particular reason you dont wish to go down that route? As mature student previous studies (depending on the course) could benefit your chances of getting on to the course.

As above though medical sciences may differ from the average course. If you are set repeating a levels though i cant see why there would be a problem, im thinking in terms of applying through the cao though. Easiest thing to do would probably be to give citizens information a ring get a definite answer.

All the best with it anyways.

dtfo

If you have to apply as a mature student as well you could just decline the interview offers when they come and you will just be assessed on your results

Your past career isnt going to hold you back. Once you can show you have the ability, understand what the courses/career entails and possibly have volunteer and shadowing experience youre in with a good chance of getting a mature place

opinion guy

OK for medicine be aware that mature student and graduate entrant are two different things.

Mature student is usually assessed by interview and if you ahve degress already you normally dont' have to worry about leaving cert (not sure in case of A levels). Mature student entry gets you into the regular 5/6 year course that undergrads do.

However, my friend was looking at this recently and apparently you alos have to have the HPAT exam.

dtfo - you can't decline the interview - then you are withdrawing your application!


Graduate entry on the other hand is a 4 year course for postgraduates only. But to go in via this route you need to do the GAMSAT exam (applies equally to Ireland and UK as far as I know). Again I think you have to interview and I'm not sure you leaving cert/A levels are all that important.


It used to be also that could apply directly through the CAO as any undergraduate would if you had good enough leaving cert grades. Don't know if that is still true. But even leaving cert kids have to do the HPAT exam.


But really OP - the only place to get definite answers is directly from the colleges - which may have slightly different requirements. So I recommend getting in touch with their admissions office and getting the low down from them. In any case you are too late for this year I think.

dtfo

I would imagine decling an interview would just withdraw your mature application and not your regular points one.

You could also just not send in your supplementary applications to the colleges

Abby19

Gnobe wrote: »

However I am getting conflicting reports that I HAVE to apply as a mature student regardless because of my age. Obviously I would prefer to just apply like everyone else and have my (repeated) grades taken into account. I would need A*AAA which is ridiculously high, but its possible.

I don't believe you _have_ to apply as a mature student regardless of age.

When you fill in the CAO form you have the option of ticking the mature box, and that opens up the other sections for you. So you have the option of simply relying on the repeat A-level results if you leave the box unticked. I know people in my class who got in with their LC and HPAT alone.

Check out http://www2.cao.ie/handbook/handbook/index.php and there are contact details so you can confirm directly with them.

If you tick the box, you have the option of being considered as a mature, and you might be accepted a year earlier. For dentistry you could emphasise your engineering background. If unsuccessful, you could still apply with the resat A-Levels. And you could use the fact that you are resitting your A-Levels as part of your application to show how determined that you are to study medicine/dentistry, etc.

Either way for medicine you will need to sit the HPAT, and you have to have a CAO number to apply for the HPAT. There are many reports of people increasing their HPAT scores the second time around (and I know a few people myself), so you may want to look at this approach. Your HPAT score is valid for two years, so if you sat it and got a good enough score you could sit on that and not bother with it the second year.

Muir

Once you're over 23, you are a mature student. But it basically means you have two chances of getting in, first you have your interview, and if you don't get in based on that they then look at your results with everyone else (as in non-mature students) and you can get in based on those. So you're giving yourself two opportunities to get a place, they are independent of each other, so your interview has no baring on your chance to get in based on results.

I know you're worried about experience but having completed a degree would be considered experience. It shows them you have experience of college, you know what it entails and you are willing to put the work in. They often favour mature students who have college experience because they sometimes feel that mature students who may have been working for the past 20 years have been out of the education system too long.

Also, there is some new medicine thing being brought in where if you have a degree in another area you can like skip the first year or two or something. I don't know the ins and outs I just recall a member of staff in UCD mentioning it to me, so you should try to find out more about that maybe?

SharpshooterTom

Right I've rang both TCD and UCC and both have confirmed to me that I don't have to apply as a mature student if I can get the grades.

Problem is the grades are higher that I thought.

I thought given that:

A* = 150
A = 135
B = 120

That 580 points is A*AAA (plus 25 bonus points for maths).

But UCC have told me I need A*x3 Ax1
And TCD have told me I need A*x4

So this is obviously going to be very hard. I was even told that 4A*s would only get me competitive at TCD and then its random selection. :eek:

opinion guy

Gnobe wrote: »

Right I've rang both TCD and UCC and both have confirmed to me that I don't have to apply as a mature student if I can get the grades.

Problem is the grades are higher that I thought.

I thought given that:

A* = 150
A = 135
B = 120

That 580 points is A*AAA (plus 25 bonus points for maths).

But UCC have told me I need A*x3 Ax1
And TCD have told me I need A*x4

So this is obviously going to be very hard. I was even told that 4A*s would only get me competitive at TCD and then its random selection. :eek:

Sounds like doing the GAMSAT and getting graduate entry would be easier. And quicker with a 4 year course

SharpshooterTom

That would be almost impossible.

I have a 2.2 in Electrical and Electronic Engineering and have no work experiance with regards to medicine so unlikely I would be accepted.

opinion guy

Gnobe wrote: »

That would be almost impossible.

I have a 2.2 in Electrical and Electronic Engineering and have no work experiance with regards to medicine so unlikely I would be accepted.

I don't think any of that matters
Its decided on interview basis. You could have a degree in art history and apply.
I'm not sure if your degree grade matters, but I think the idea is the GAMSAT sorts out the aptitude and the rest is supposed to be based on interview

And frankly medicine needs engineers

borrch

You can not apply as grad entry as you need at least at 2.1. So your only option is to apply as a mature student (which is unlikely to successful due to lack of medical experience) or you can repeat & go through the CAO

Jopari87

I'm starting science in TCD this September as a mature student. I have a previous degree in Business Studies (2.2 also) and also had no previous experience in the scientific field.

I received the offer without having to go for an interview. In my personal statement I explained how I hated Business, but stuck it out to get a degree. I also told them how much I would love science and regretted not doing it in the first place.

It will be the same in your case. A previous degree shows you are able for college. Also from reading your posts, it seems you really want to go back so they will see that enthuaism also.

opinion guy

borrch wrote: »

You can not apply as grad entry as you need at least at 2.1. So your only option is to apply as a mature student (which is unlikely to successful due to lack of medical experience) or you can repeat & go through the CAO

Do you ? I didn't know that. Is this written in a rule somewhere or you jusy heard that ?

opinion guy

Gnobe wrote: »

That would be almost impossible.

I have a 2.2 in Electrical and Electronic Engineering and have no work experiance with regards to medicine so unlikely I would be accepted.

Whats your masters in ?

Edit:
Just checked the RCSI website and tru enouhg if does mention needing a 2.1 degree. But you have a masters. You should email them and ask does that make a difference.
http://www.rcsi.ie/cat_course_detail.jsp?n=102&p=101&itemID=3

At the end of the day these are still entry by interview. If they decide to let you interview you ahve same shot as anyone

Abby19

You need a minimum of a 2.1 in your primary degree for any of the four Irish colleges that offer Grad Med, regardless of however many further qualifications or degrees you may earn.

There are apparently 3 colleges in the UK that will accept a 2.2. These details are posted in some other thread on this topic. Check out either the GAMSAT thread in Science - Health Sciences, or some of the other mature medicine threads in this forum.

Muir

Could you not go do your exams again but also apply as a mature student to the CAO for next year, then if you get in on mature grounds you wont have to do the second year of A levels, and if you don't you're doing the A levels anyway. Like if you apply as a mature student you give yourself the chance of getting in a year earlier, and it can't hurt to try.

borrch

opinion guy wrote: »

Do you ? I didn't know that. Is this written in a rule somewhere or you jusy heard that ?

Yes this the case in all Irish universities . You will need alot of experience to apply as a mature applicant as its an extremely competitive route. General science are fairly easy to get into as a mature student. Usually just require access course or previously college experience.
I think your best bet is to resit the leaving cert :-)

Muir

borrch wrote: »

Yes this the case in all Irish universities . You will need alot of experience to apply as a mature applicant as its an extremely competitive route. General science are fairly easy to get into as a mature student. Usually just require access course or previously college experience.
I think your best bet is to resit the leaving cert :-)

You may need a 2.1 for grad entry but not to apply as a mature student. Having a degree and a masters would definitely go in the OPs favour if applying as a mature student. That counts as experience in education, which is often what is looked for in mature applicants as they are then less likely to drop out.

Also OP if you are going to try applying as a mature student, maybe take up first aid or something voluntary which would help show your interest in the area. They look for that kind of thing in mature applicants.

opinion guy

borrch wrote: »

Yes this the case in all Irish universities . You will need alot of experience to apply as a mature applicant as its an extremely competitive route. General science are fairly easy to get into as a mature student. Usually just require access course or previously college experience.
I think your best bet is to resit the leaving cert :-)

I know people who got in as matrue student with arts degrees and one with a pass science degree

borrch

If you volunteer in hospitals, hospice or nursing homes etc that all counts as experience. They're not looking for medical related degree, any degree will do. It's also very important that you have recent studies (within the last 4yrs or so). So work experience and maybe a science access course would really improve your chances. Some people have gone back and sat chemistry & biology in the leaving cert, which is very doable :-)

Abby19

I know people who have got in with pass degrees, 2.2s, 2.1s and firsts. I also know people who have Masters, PhDs or other professional qualifications. I also know people with degrees below 2.1s who went back and sat the Leaving Cert in a single year and are now studying medicine. A big thing is experience, and your personal statement and how you can tie what you have done so far with the decision to study medicine. Anecdotally, they may also test your mettle and persistence, many people get in on 2nd and even 3rd attempts. Though they may be honing their application in the mean time, and that may have been a factor.

As a number of other people above have suggested, why not try and apply as a mature student this year. You really have nothing to lose, bar the time to prepare your application (and the cost of the CAO and HPAT, but your HPAT is valid for 2 years, so you could used that with your A-Levels the following year is your score is high enough). You can use this to your advantage, highlighting your resolve and could say something like, 'I really want to do medicine and with that goal in mind I am sitting my A-Levels in W, X, Y and Z to gain entry as an undergraduate. I would really appreciate the opportunity to study medicine here, and this year has strengthened my resolve and given me a good grounding in these subjects.' And if you don't get in, ask them for feedback, and work on your application and then you have two possible routes the following year as well.

People above have mentioned getting experience - could you shadow your GP or some hospital doctors? Do some volunteer work, in a hospital ideally, but anything that shows you giving back to the community helps your case. Could you see about agency work as a care assistant? Doing a First Aid course, becoming a blood donor, could help fill in a few gaps. BTW for volunteering in a hospital you have to undergo Garda vetting which can take a while. Not sure what the situation is in the north. You have till the end of January 2013 to gain some experience to support your application, so 7 months to get cracking. From my experience they want you to show that you are a caring, empathic person who would make a great doctor.