Will fun cars be a thing of the past sooner than we think?

dar83

I don't like the sounds of this article anyway...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0608/1224317500765.html

We all know that the Government is going to be hiking the CO2 tax annually from here on in, but if these regulations come in (and yes, it is 8 years away) on this timeline, could 2020 be the end of newly produced, proper engined, fun cars?!

I sure hope not, but it's a depressing thought all the same.

dar83

Article dump for those of us not able to browse...

Irish Times wrote:

You've been Sherlocked...

Eric Cartman

the toyota GT86 is the last designed truly fun car.

the evo is gone, type R is gone, even BMW's m division are going a diesel direction. The government can band about co2 numbers all they want. I am willing to bet that theres no way to make a nice petrol V8, V10 or V12 sit inside those bands, and thats a shame. Keep buying old fun cars I suppose

CianRyan

You can say goodbye to Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Buggati, etc... If that passes.
I don't know if they'll have the neck to sign the death warrant of all these big companies, even if they are only sub companies.

If it does pass, that still leaves Japan, America, Australia and by that time, probably Koreo, maybe China to supply us with fun!

Nissan doctor

There are already petrol engined cars coming it at below the 100g CO2 mark so I don't see 95 and below being an issue in almost 10 years time.


Humans are humans, regulations etc will never stop people having fun with cars.

pajo1981

Only proposals.

Almost certainly won't happen.

dar83

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There are already petrol engined cars coming it at below the 100g CO2 mark so I don't see 95 and below being an issue in almost 10 years time.


Humans are humans, regulations etc will never stop people having fun with cars.

Of course cars with an output that low are possible, but let's be honest here, they will be inherently un-fun. A car produced with such restrictions in mind and such restrictions adhered to, is going to be most likely not Petrol (not that all Diesel's aren't fun, relax! ) and most likely not capable of any sort of decent power output (ie. fun :P ).

Whether people convince themselves they can have fun in them is neither here nor there. The V8, V10, V12 etc... will most likely be no more and lets be honest, convincing yourself a Clio, Micra, VW Blue Motion etc... are fun, is not a delusion you can keep up very long.

ShadowHearth

Well thanks to Irish co2 system alone there are no performance cars from 08 anymore. I can imagine how fun it will be to be a petrolhead at 2020...

dar83

Hybridhead just doesn't have the same ring to it does it?!

Just imagine it...



Thaaaaaaaaannnnnkkkkksssss

piston

dar83 wrote: »

Of course cars with an output that low are possible, but let's be honest here, they will be inherently un-fun. A car produced with such restrictions in mind and such restrictions adhered to, is going to be most likely not Petrol (not that all Diesel's aren't fun, relax! ) and most likely not capable of any sort of decent power output (ie. fun :P ).

Not exactly true. A low powered car can be fantastic fun but only if it's lightweight and nimble.

Unfortunately, cars seem to get ever heavier and days of lightweight fun cars like Minis, Pug 205s, MK1 Golfs, Alfasuds, etc are long gone. We really need a back to basics approach with car design. When a Nissan Micra is heavier than an old warhorse like an Austin Cambridge, there is something very wrong imo.

Eric Cartman

LIGHTNING wrote: »

That`s a bit dramatic in all fairness, Lotus are still pumping out great cars. Their will be smaller car companies producing low volume cars that are exempt from the rules too. Failing that buy a classic and give the government the old two finger gesture

true, and thats great, but I think the days of 750il's ,S600 V12 Biturbo's , 850csi's , Audi R8's, RangeRover Supercharged and other mass produced luxury petrol V8/10/12 monsters are limited, and thats a sad road to go down. Mitsubishi may have been able to put out the same horsepower figures out of the evo 4-pot as the V12 bavarian offering , but the warble a V8 or V12 makes will never ever be replaced.

dar83

piston wrote: »

Not exactly true. A low powered car can be fantastic fun but only if it's lightweight and nimble.

I agree completely, and some of the cars you mention are cracking cars, but day to day and for motorway driving etc... it's just not the same having light and nimble when you'd prefer/require a bit of a monster.

Plus the days of ridiculously light are gone thanks to all the safety features a car now needs (and this isn't necessarily a bad thing).

dgt

To me, most of the cool fun cars (mostly from the 80s and 90s) are gone anyway so it makes no difference here!

Atomic Pineapple

Forcing a bit of evolution on to car companies may be a good thing, it may bring new technologies along quicker than if there were to be no emissions restrictions. At first we'll probably see low emissions cars that are boring, underpowered and terrible to drive. But as technology advances someone somewhere will come up with a way to have a high BHP beast thats economical and emission friendly.

I stress that it MAY be a good thing, it could go the way of everyone driving a generic bland mobile and driving becoming a mode of A to B transport only and not a leisure activity but we'll have to see.

Yakuza

dar83 wrote: »

Article dump for those of us not able to browse...

IBTS

(In before the Sherlock).

I just cling to the hope that such legislation will advance the timescale for developing stuff like the Tesla so that it's affordable by mortals.

eth0

Even with the government kept at bay you still have the "Mere humans cant drive" Google crowd trying to foist driverless cars on us for safety reasons, probably with a million safety concerned "moms" backing them things not looking good

I think I'll have to buy a boat with a nice smelly petrol outboard

Yakuza

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Id take a Elise than a Tesla every single day of the week.

Fair enough (as would I, I suppose), but if the Elise is off the table due to this proposed legislation, then I hope there will be an electric substitute.

I think the motor industry is quite adept at changing to meet legislation (BMW with their tax band A/B diesels , for example) so maybe this will spur them on to evolve to the holy grail of a moving past the combustion engine.

galwaytt

LIGHTNING wrote: »

That`s a bit dramatic in all fairness, Lotus are still pumping out great cars. Their will be smaller car companies producing low volume cars that are exempt from the rules too. Failing that buy a classic and give the government the old two finger gesture

....mmm, but for how long ? Elise is now.......12 years old ??

They've just fired their CEO over money matters, the holding Proton company that actually owns Lotus has itself just been sold, and the new Malaysian owners are doing due diligence on Lotus, now.

Lotus never made a cent whilst under Proton. Actually, they've probably never made a cent, and lost money every year for the last 4. That's unsustainable.

Then, to cap it all, Lotus think they can build their own engines, better than Toyota ? FFS. Stick to building what you're good at.

I wouldn't be in the least bit optimistic about Lotus at all, but would be delighted to be proven wrong.

Marcusm

CianRyan wrote: »

You can say goodbye to Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Buggati, etc... If that passes.
I don't know if they'll have the neck to sign the death warrant of all these big companies, even if they are only sub companies.

If it does pass, that still leaves Japan, America, Australia and by that time, probably Koreo, maybe China to supply us with fun!

They'll all be fine as they are all part of auto conglomerates and the Levels are assessed on an aggregate basis.

carbon nanotube

dar83 wrote: »

I don't like the sounds of this article anyway...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0608/1224317500765.html

We all know that the Government is going to be hiking the CO2 tax annually from here on in, but if these regulations come in (and yes, it is 8 years away) on this timeline, could 2020 be the end of newly produced, proper engined, fun cars?!

I sure hope not, but it's a depressing thought all the same.

id rather drive a car with 200bph than save 500quid on petrol a year.

whats all the hullabaloo about co2.

Anan1

dar83 wrote: »

I don't like the sounds of this article anyway...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0608/1224317500765.html

We all know that the Government is going to be hiking the CO2 tax annually from here on in, but if these regulations come in (and yes, it is 8 years away) on this timeline, could 2020 be the end of newly produced, proper engined, fun cars?!

I sure hope not, but it's a depressing thought all the same.

I read a very similar article recently - it was written in 1979, and speculated that the Mercedes 450SEL 6.9 would be the last of the big, powerful saloons. And yet a new BMW 320d auto probably posts similar performance figures today, and with better economy than a Mk1 Golf. The car industry has never liked being told what to do, but manufacturers are well capable of technological innovation when pushed.

opinion guy

I don't think emissions regulations will kill fun cars. The tech will move on and compensate.

What I do think will kill fun cars is the advent of the self driving car. All companies are working on it. Even google did a successful test recently.
This will have consequences:

1) you daily commute will become working time. You won't want to drive as you have **** to do. You will let the car get on with it and break out your ipad/laptop and start working

2) you eventually won't need a driving licence to drive. the car will do it for you. sure you'll have the choice. For a while. but a new generation will grow up with far less incentive to learn how to drive in the first place

3) you won't need to own your own car. since you won't be driving it anyhow, it will make more sense to have a grid of self-driving taxis. you'll just call one to your house, work whilst you journey, and pay a bill at the end.


Once these 3 things happen, and they will, there will no longer be any incentive for car companies to make anything other than grey boring commuting offices. Sure there will be a few small kit car companies making old style cars for people to drive on B roads and track days. But that will be it.

It is inevitable.

eth0

opinion guy wrote: »

I don't think emissions regulations will kill fun cars. The tech will move on and compensate.

What I do think will kill fun cars is the advent of the self driving car. All companies are working on it. Even google did a successful test recently.
This will have consequences:

1) you daily commute will become working time. You won't want to drive as you have **** to do. You will let the car get on with it and break out your ipad/laptop and start working

2) you eventually won't need a driving licence to drive. the car will do it for you. sure you'll have the choice. For a while. but a new generation will grow up with far less incentive to learn how to drive in the first place

3) you won't need to own your own car. since you won't be driving it anyhow, it will make more sense to have a grid of self-driving taxis. you'll just call one to your house, work whilst you journey, and pay a bill at the end.


Once these 3 things happen, and they will, there will no longer be any incentive for car companies to make anything other than grey boring commuting offices. Sure there will be a few small kit car companies making old style cars for people to drive on B roads and track days. But that will be it.

It is inevitable.

If you still have a job to commute to. If it hasn't been replaced by robots or Chinese communist slaves

I hope it all works out for those small kit car companies.

Alanstrainor

Yakuza wrote: »

IBTS

(In before the Sherlock).

I just cling to the hope that such legislation will advance the timescale for developing stuff like the Tesla so that it's affordable by mortals.

And it's been Sherlocked.

FYI, we can't "dump" articles on boards any more, thanks to Sherlock:mad:

The article states that the manufacturers will be fined up to €95 per gram per vehicle for breaching the target.

So a vehicle with CO2 emissions of 295 g/km would cost the manufacturer an extra €19000. That does not sound like a huge price increase on Ferrari and likes. Would be a pain for more mundane vehicles though.