Govt Announces €7 Million For Cycle Routes

Jawgap

Bit of good news

"Public Transport Minister, Alan Kelly, has today announced a €7 million euro investment programme for cycle routes.
The funding will see sixteen separate cycling projects built across the country over the next two to years amounting to an additional 334 kilometres of cycleway as part of the National Cycle Network."

Unsurprisingly Mayo gets the most! But there's something in there for a lot of people.

Plus the headline figure of 334km is somewhat skewed by the 195km that are going into Donegal.

Beasty

Jawgap wrote: »

the 195km that are going into Donegal.

I would have thought that most people would be wanting to come out of Donegal ...:)

sanbrafyffe

have you ever cycled mayo.its not because kenny is from there but you just go back and see how greenway in achill is doing tourism wise.then youy will understand

Jawgap wrote: »

Bit of good news

"Public Transport Minister, Alan Kelly, has today announced a €7 million euro investment programme for cycle routes.
The funding will see sixteen separate cycling projects built across the country over the next two to years amounting to an additional 334 kilometres of cycleway as part of the National Cycle Network."

Unsurprisingly Mayo gets the most! But there's something in there for a lot of people.

Plus the headline figure of 334km is somewhat skewed by the 195km that are going into Donegal.

ednwireland

Beasty wrote: »

I would have thought that most people would be wanting to come out of Donegal ...:)

oyyy (can i card you for that ? )

christmas2012

about time

Jawgap

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

have you ever cycled mayo.its not because kenny is from there but you just go back and see how greenway in achill is doing tourism wise.then youy will understand

I've cycled the Greenway and it is truly a gem, but if you think that Mayo got most of the pot because of the scenery rather than because of the fact that the Taoiseach is from there, (along with a Minister of State from the Department dispensing the cash), you are having a laugh!

Of course, you'll also probably suggest that it's just lucky that this year sports grants to Mayo under the National Lottery schemes jumped by 70% this year?

I don't mind them doing it - just don't treat us like idiots and pretend they are somehow above parish pump politics:)

Lashtown

Will they sideline some of this money to provide goods carriages on intercity trains? I wanted to go by train to Killarney for the ROK cycle but was dissappointed to see that there are only 3 bicycle spaces on each train.

Harrybelafonte

Beasty wrote: »

I would have thought that most people would be wanting to come out of Donegal ...:)

I came out of Donegal , and as great as cycling around Wicklow can be, there really isn't much that can compare to cycling alone between Gaoth Dobhair and Glenveagh, or around Malin Head.

Biased as I may be, I think it's money well spent.

ashleey

Beasty wrote: »

I would have thought that most people would be wanting to come out of Donegal ...:)

You have to cycle over mountains like Glengesh to do that

Jawgap

Beasty wrote: »

I would have thought that most people would be wanting to come out of Donegal ...:)

ednwireland wrote: »

oyyy (can i card you for that ? )

195km will get you out of Donegal with a bit to spare

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I came out of Donegal , and as great as cycling around Wicklow can be, there really isn't much that can compare to cycling alone between Gaoth Dobhair and Glenveagh, or around Malin Head.

Biased as I may be, I think it's money well spent.

applying a crude per /km calculation, it's excellent value. Presumably there'll be some tie up with the UK National Cycle Network routes in that part of the world.

Esroh

Jawgap wrote: »

Bit of good news

"Public Transport Minister, Alan Kelly, has today announced a €7 million euro investment programme for cycle routes.
The funding will see sixteen separate cycling projects built across the country over the next two to years amounting to an additional 334 kilometres of cycleway as part of the National Cycle Network."

Surprisingly Castlebar gets all of Mayo's share ! But there's something in there for a lot of people.

Plus the headline figure of 334km is somewhat skewed by the 195km that are going into Donegal.

Corrected that for you

ednwireland

An extensive 195km rural roads based route from Donegal Town to Newton Cunningham,

how the F**k are they spending 497000 euro on a few road signs i'll never know

reminds me of this http://www.northwest-trail.com/
£475062 funding from the EU INTERREG 111A and all it is is a load of signposts , 5 yeas later no literature and no map on the website (which was promised after i complained to sustrans but still not on the website - they said there is a map available but seemingly only via mail order through sustrans.

sorry to have a downer on this but if they could include maybe some of the old railway lines round the county that would be good. just seems to me donegal coco are conning money out of these projects

edit: just found the northwest trail doc http://www.cycleni.com/d/routes/102/NWTrail.pdf
funny how its not on the north west trail website though

Doctor Bob

Jawgap wrote: »

Unsurprisingly Mayo gets the most!

I see Fingal and North Tipperary are also included.

Yes Minister.

hans aus dtschl

Why no Cork or Galway projects I wonder? I know Cork City Council are making an absolute shambles of their current efforts at cycling lanes to Douglas, so maybe it was decided best to not throw away any more money.

Fingal's 3km proposed route seems somewhat expensive too, costing €200k per km alongside the canal?

Would have made sense to me if they focussed on cycle routes near the places they'll get used most, trying to convert people to cycling as a daily habit rather than as a tourist passtime. Shows how much I know...

smacl

Beasty wrote: »

I would have thought that most people would be wanting to come out of Donegal ...:)

To be fair, at €497m for 195k based on using existing rural roads, it sounds like one of the more interesting projects, and at €2.5k / km sounds worthwhile. A 6.2k greenway in Louth at €110k / km sounds like a total waste of money even for joggers. Most of the rest of them are also averaging about €100k per km travelled, which doesn't seem like great use of scarce funds in a country covered in unused minor L-roads. For my money, they should filling in some of the man eating potholes on our rural roads, thinking out some more creative circuits around the existing L-roads, giving cyclists priority on these roads, and sign-posting accordingly.

110k per km for gravelly green-ways that are barely long enough for a relaxed jog smells of brown paper envelope to me.

mcgratheoin

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Fingal's 3km proposed route seems somewhat expensive too, costing €200k per km alongside the canal?

Agree. Glad to see that money is being made available, but I'll have to reserve judgement until these schemes are finished. With the Carlow - Kilkenny route, what material changes will be made to the road? It's the old national route, so it's a big wide road, large hard shoulders and very little traffic. What specifically are they going to spend €463,500 on?

Kudos to Louth and Limerick for their use of the railways though. If they can manage to create a greenway on the old line from Dundalk to Newry it would be a great amenity.

Donie75

"Roscommon Co. Co. - Provision of 20km of dedicated cycle lanes along the former N6 from Athlone to Ballinasloe, with future potential to link to the Tullamore to Moate route along a disused rail line."

I cycle this route on a regular basis. It is a fine big wide road with a good hard shoulder 99% of the way. There is a hard shoulder for around 98% of the road and the surface is acceptable. This is a total waste of money.
It would be better to see this money being used to build a Ballyhoura style MTB trail in the Sliabh Blooms.
I'm also surprised to see that the disused railway line from Athlone to Mullingar is not on the plan.

Junior

mcgratheoin wrote: »

What specifically are they going to spend €463,500 on?

My guess a report on how to spend the money ?

ftnbase

ednwireland wrote: »

An extensive 195km rural roads based route from Donegal Town to Newton Cunningham,

how the F**k are they spending 497000 euro on a few road signs i'll never know

It looks like Donegal has been short changed again.

The rate per km in Donegal is €2,500 ;

The rate per km for the rest of the country is almost €50,000

Maybe that's our punishment for voting NO!!!!

Let's hope they don't spend it on signposts this time. Does anyone know what the application contains?

mcgratheoin

Donie75 wrote: »

I cycle this route on a regular basis. It is a fine big wide road with a good hard shoulder 99% of the way. There is a hard shoulder for around 98% of the road and the surface is acceptable. This is a total waste of money.

Sounds similar to the Carlow-Kilkenny plan.

smacl wrote:

A 6.2k greenway in Louth at €110k / km sounds like a total waste of money even for joggers.

I don't mind the excessive cost of the greenway in Louth as it looks like it might actually go somewhere in the long run. If it turns out to be a nice amenity (even as a place to walk rather than a cycle route) along the lines of the greenway in Mayo, then I could see the route being extended towards Newry (along the canal).

As a matter of interest - does anyone know if this scheme crosses private lands, or is the old railway still publicly owned?

smacl wrote:

doesn't seem like great use of scarce funds in a country covered in unused minor L-roads .... more creative circuits around the existing L-roads, giving cyclists priority on these roads, and sign-posting accordingly.

completely agree - the Sean Kelly routes in Waterford (though far from perfect) are an example of a simple starting point that wouldn't cost the earth.

kippy

Jawgap wrote: »

I've cycled the Greenway and it is truly a gem, but if you think that Mayo got most of the pot because of the scenery rather than because of the fact that the Taoiseach is from there, (along with a Minister of State from the Department dispensing the cash), you are having a laugh!

Of course, you'll also probably suggest that it's just lucky that this year sports grants to Mayo under the National Lottery schemes jumped by 70% this year?

I don't mind them doing it - just don't treat us like idiots and pretend they are somehow above parish pump politics:)

The greenway was in the planning and execution stage long before Enda got into power......In fact I think it had been 90% completed my the time he got in
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0729/greenway.html
I know a few people that cycled Newport to Mulranny the previous summer so it was definely well underway when FG came to power.

Whatever about these latest tranche of grants the Greenway wasn't as a result of Enda.

Jawgap

kippy wrote: »

The greenway was in the planning and execution stage long before Enda got into power......In fact I think it had been 90% completed my the time he got in
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0729/greenway.html
I know a few people that cycled Newport to Mulranny the previous summer so it was definely well underway when FG came to power.

Whatever about these latest tranche of grants the Greenway wasn't as a result of Enda.

i never said it was - and to be fair to "Inda" I don't think he's ever claimed credit for it.

Also, in fairness to Enda, he does actually cycle quite a bit.

ftnbase

kippy wrote: »

The greenway was in the planning and execution stage long before Enda got into power......In fact I think it had been 90% completed my the time he got in
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0729/greenway.html
I know a few people that cycled Newport to Mulranny the previous summer so it was definely well underway when FG came to power.

Whatever about these latest tranche of grants the Greenway wasn't as a result of Enda.

To be fair to jawgap he never suggested that Greenway had anything to do with FG. All they did was do the official opening.

His point, as I see it, relates to the tranche of today's €7m allocation which was allocated to Mayo. Jawgap is right to say that Mayo got the biggest allocation of the €7 million.

kippy

ftnbase wrote: »

To be fair to jawgap he never suggested that Greenway had anything to do with FG. All they did was do the official opening.

His point, as I see it, relates to the tranche of today's €7m allocation which was allocated to Mayo. Jawgap is right to say that Mayo got the biggest allocation of the €7 million.

I suppose, and that's a fair point.
Is anyone surprised?

ednwireland

kippy wrote: »

I suppose, and that's a fair point.
Is anyone surprised?

from the fine gael manifesto

5. Overhaul the way our political system works to stamp out cronyism and low standards.

cant see much of that, more like "its our turn to milk the system now"

ftnbase

ednwireland wrote: »

from the fine gael manifesto



cant see much of that, more like "its our turn to milk the system now"

Our only problem is that we can't get as far as the milking part of the system!!!!!

Jawgap

yeah, but they didn't promise high standards;)

ftnbase

Jawgap wrote: »

yeah, but they didn't promise high standards;)

High standards in grant delivery to their home counties?

petethedrummer

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Kudos to Louth and Limerick for their use of the railways though. If they can manage to create a greenway on the old line from Dundalk to Newry it would be a great amenity.

The cycle paths around Dundalk aren't bad. I may be wrong but I think there is an engineer in the roads dept that is into cycling and it may have a bearing on the quality.

Redmond101

I though €7million work of red paint would go more than 300ish km

clonmahon

Great news.

With regards to Mayo getting the biggest grant (and I have been a critic of the Mayo Greenway) I think this is justified, it's best to put the most resources where there is already a lot of infastructure in place and add to it. If it were up to me I would invest the whole 7 million in one major project but politics would never allow this to happen.

Can anyone in Mayo tell me how many miles of off road greenway is in Mayo now.

kippy

clonmahon wrote: »

Great news.

With regards to Mayo getting the biggest grant (and I have been a critic of the Mayo Greenway) I think this is justified, it's best to put the most resources where there is already a lot of infastructure in place and add to it. If it were up to me I would invest the whole 7 million in one major project but politics would never allow this to happen.

Can anyone in Mayo tell me how many miles of off road greenway is in Mayo now.

Its on the site,
www.greenway.ie Where they say the whole route is about 42K. I would estimate that all bar 1-2 K of that is off road.

clonmahon

kippy wrote: »

Its on the site,
www.greenway.ie Where they say the whole route is about 42K. I would estimate that all bar 1-2 K of that is off road.

But there is also a 2.5 km greenway in the town of Westport and the Transport.ie website says "The route connects into the recently build Lough Lannagh Greenway". My question is when all this and any other Mayo Greenways are added up how much off road cycle trails are there in Mayo.

kippy

clonmahon wrote: »

But there is also a 2.5 km greenway in the town of Westport and the Transport.ie website says "The route connects into the recently build Lough Lannagh Greenway". My question is when all this and any other Mayo Greenways are added up how much off road cycle trails are there in Mayo.

Sorry, I seem to be completely taking up people wrong in this thread. Apologies again.
I have no idea abou the total, I really dont think there is that much outside of the great western route. (yet anyway)

Trojan

Planning permission for Connemara section.

monument

Guessing the national cycle manual will not legally cover the rest of the county any time soon? It only covers the Greater Dublin Area at the moment. So, the, errrrr... cycling and walking space Mayo Co Co put in near Westport (along the R335, not the Greenway!) can be take as a model for the rest of the country! :eek: :rolleyes:

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Fingal's 3km proposed route seems somewhat expensive too, costing €200k per km alongside the canal?

If it's the section the department says it is and we take them literally, I'm between scratching my head and thinking they're going to put in another bridges around Ashtown? If it's west of Castleknock station, I would not be surprised if it cost far more than €200k per km -- a lot of the route is rocks sticking out of the path and deep falls into the canals (the path is a good bit higher than the water level!).

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Would have made sense to me if they focussed on cycle routes near the places they'll get used most, trying to convert people to cycling as a daily habit rather than as a tourist passtime. Shows how much I know...

It's worth nothing that there's other funding going to other projects in the Greater Dublin Area. But still, maybe a greater share should be going to Dublin?

Some of the routes mentioned have the potential to work as both, and the potential to be rubbish for both.

awec

Work has begun in Sandyford Industrial estate which I think is doing away with some of the one way roads but is definitely including the introduction of some new cycle lanes.

dvntie

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Donie75 wrote: »

I cycle this route on a regular basis. It is a fine big wide road with a good hard shoulder 99% of the way. There is a hard shoulder for around 98% of the road and the surface is acceptable. This is a total waste of money.

Sounds similar to the Carlow-Kilkenny plan.

smacl wrote:

A 6.2k greenway in Louth at €110k / km sounds like a total waste of money even for joggers.

I don't mind the excessive cost of the greenway in Louth as it looks like it might actually go somewhere in the long run. If it turns out to be a nice amenity (even as a place to walk rather than a cycle route) along the lines of the greenway in Mayo, then I could see the route being extended towards Newry (along the canal).

As a matter of interest - does anyone know if this scheme crosses private lands, or is the old railway still publicly owned?

smacl wrote:

doesn't seem like great use of scarce funds in a country covered in unused minor L-roads .... more creative circuits around the existing L-roads, giving cyclists priority on these roads, and sign-posting accordingly.

completely agree - the Sean Kelly routes in Waterford (though far from perfect) are an example of a simple starting point that wouldn't cost the earth.

Not to mention resurfacing the south side of the Vee

Jawgap

I'm surprise no one has been on to claim that Mayo needs their allocation, and more besides to rebuild after The Earthquake

Doctor Bob

awec wrote: »

Work has begun in Sandyford Industrial estate which I think is doing away with some of the one way roads but is definitely including the introduction of some new cycle lanes.

Blackthorn Avenue/Upper Kilmacud Road? That's a DLRCC project, separate from this funding allocation.

This funding is specifically for the National Cycle Network, as developed by the NRA and now funded by the DoT. That's also why the funding is going to rural/inter-urban routes for the most part rather than into towns, as some other posters have suggested it should.

monument wrote: »

Guessing the national cycle manual will not legally cover the rest of the county any time soon? It only covers the Greater Dublin Area at the moment.

I think the Manual covers the GDA and the other major cities, but it's mainly a manual for urban areas, so probably doesn't have much to say on rural cycling, the needs of which are quite distinct from standard urban commuting needs (which we all agree on, right? :pac:).

monument wrote: »

cycling and walking space

Good g-d, that's horrendous.

senordingdong

Shame that Mayo gets the majority of the attention but hey, it's a good start that we have a Taoiseach that actually understands the needs of cyclists.

Lets hope that these are adequate, dedicating lanes and aren't just thrown down on top of some ****ty small road.

awec

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Blackthorn Avenue/Upper Kilmacud Road? That's a DLRCC project, separate from this funding allocation.

This funding is specifically for the National Cycle Network, as developed by the NRA and now funded by the DoT. That's also why the funding is going to rural/inter-urban routes for the most part rather than into towns, as some other posters have suggested it should.



I think the Manual covers the GDA and the other major cities, but it's mainly a manual for urban areas, so probably doesn't have much to say on rural cycling, the needs of which are quite distinct from standard urban commuting needs (which we all agree on, right? :pac:).



Good g-d, that's horrendous.

Yep. Apologies, I didn't mean it was part of this funding but was just pointing out that work was happening in Dublin on cycle lanes too.

I'm glad to see it cause I find cycling through the ind. estate at the moment a pain in the arse.

monument

Doctor Bob wrote: »

This funding is specifically for the National Cycle Network, as developed by the NRA and now funded by the DoT. That's also why the funding is going to rural/inter-urban routes for the most part rather than into towns, as some other posters have suggested it should.

The national routes also include sections inside the M50?

Doctor Bob wrote: »

I think the Manual covers the GDA and the other major cities, but it's mainly a manual for urban areas, so probably doesn't have much to say on rural cycling, the needs of which are quite distinct from standard urban commuting needs (which we all agree on, right? :pac:).

Surely some of if not all of the basics apply regardless and many of sections of the national routes -- likely some of the harder sections to design -- will include how the routes interact with towns and even urban landscapes in villages?

Also, the manual only legally applies to the GDA according the what the NTA told me.

The manual could also be added to, updated with rural advice.

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Good g-d, that's horrendous.

That's why some basic standards might be good before spending millions via a department which cannot look at qualty because it apprently lacks the skill set to do so and had zero interest in changing that.

mcgratheoin

senordingdong wrote: »

Shame that Mayo gets the majority of the attention

Meh, it's not as if Mayo is getting twice what anyplace else is getting. Waterford, Meath, Louth and Fingal all getting over €500K as well, and another 7 getting more than €400K. With the experience of the greenway behind them, Mayo are probably better able to put their case forward for new projects (they know what buttons to push to get the funding), and they also have the not inconsiderable bonus of being able to link existing paths together. I would imagine that the next round of funding will see an application to link Castlebar and Westport together.

It would be nice to have one location (Mayo) where there's an integrated set of trails that the rest of the country can look at and copy (like the greenway). Other local authorities might look at the benefits and decide that cycling is something that they could easily facilitate in their area.

BTW, does anyone have a link to the Lough Lannagh greenway? Does it circle the lake or what?

monument

mcgratheoin wrote: »

It would be nice to have one location (Mayo) where there's an integrated set of trails that the rest of the country can look at and copy (like the greenway). Other local authorities might look at the benefits and decide that cycling is something that they could easily facilitate in their area.

monument wrote: »

So, the, errrrr... cycling and walking space Mayo Co Co put in near Westport (along the R335, not the Greenway!) can be take as a model for the rest of the country! :eek: :rolleyes:

Mayo is a great example for everybody to follow?

senordingdong

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Meh, it's not as if Mayo is getting twice what anyplace else is getting. Waterford, Meath, Louth and Fingal all getting over €500K as well, and another 7 getting more than €400K. With the experience of the greenway behind them, Mayo are probably better able to put their case forward for new projects (they know what buttons to push to get the funding), and they also have the not inconsiderable bonus of being able to link existing paths together. I would imagine that the next round of funding will see an application to link Castlebar and Westport together.

It would be nice to have one location (Mayo) where there's an integrated set of trails that the rest of the country can look at and copy (like the greenway). Other local authorities might look at the benefits and decide that cycling is something that they could easily facilitate in their area.

BTW, does anyone have a link to the Lough Lannagh greenway? Does it circle the lake or what?

Ah no, all I mean is that this is miles better than no attention.

mcgratheoin

monument wrote: »

Mayo is a great example for everybody to follow?

I never said that the greenway was perfect, but name a county that has done a better job on cycling infrastructure, or looks like they give a toss about cyclists. Having a cycle/walking route that could extend from the museum of country life all the way through Castlebar and Westport and as far as Achill, would be a great result, and something that I'd like other local authorities to look at and attempt to emulate.

monument

mcgratheoin wrote: »

I never said that the greenway was perfect, but name a county that has done a better job on cycling infrastructure, or looks like they give a toss about cyclists. Having a cycle/walking route that could extend from the museum of country life all the way through Castlebar and Westport and as far as Achill, would be a great result, and something that I'd like other local authorities to look at and attempt to emulate.

DLR CoCo. While there is a lot of muck left over from the past, if you look at what they have done in the recent past and what they are working on, it seems a hell of lot better than what anybody else is doing.

With Mayo, when you look at the overall picture and the stuff on-road outside Westport and the on-footpath stuff in Ballina (sure, maybe the town council, but the county has their say on roads), it is making the past mistakes of Dublin councils and some new mistakes on top of that!

coolbeans

Seven million? That's nowhere near enough given the benefits that would accrue if people cycled more.

mcgratheoin

monument wrote: »

With Mayo, when you look at the overall picture and the stuff on-road outside Westport and the on-footpath stuff in Ballina

Fair enough, I'm not familiar with the facilities in Mayo. I guess I was thinking of things from the recreational, greenway, family side of things. I'd rather see most of the money go towards these trail style things rather than on-road inadequate "improvements" like the majority of lanes around Dublin (new facilities notwithstanding).