365 online - Internet banking transaction wait times

dirtyden

A question on 365 online.

I have registered both my current and credit card accounts. On Saturday I transferred funds from my current to my credit card with intention of paying for something on Monday.

The funds have still not appeared in my credit card account on wednesday 7.30 pm.

How can there possibly be such a delay to electronically transfer money between 2 BOI accounts. The money was in my current account which surely can be verified elcetronically by BOI software, why is the transfer not instantaneous or at least within a couple of hours.

lotsofthegreen

Are you basing that on the credit card balance when u logged into 365online. If so its not "live" and will more than likely update tonight. If the funds were transferred correctly they are probably availible to spend now and it wouldnt have been applied to your account until yesterday (due to bank hol)

dirtyden

Thanks lots of the green.

I would have thought transfer between two Bank of Ireland accounts both registered in my name should not be delayed at all though. I dont see why there is any need for any kind of verification. I assumed, obviously incorrectly that was the intent of internet banking (banking 365 days a year?).

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi dirtyden,

Thanks for your query. A Banking365 transfer from a BOI current account to a BOI credit card is normally processed the next working day. Unfortunately due to an error over the weekend, transfers to Visas/Mastercards weren't processed in time. This has now been resolved and you should see the funds in your credit card account today. Sorry for any inconvenience caused to you.

If you have any other queries please feel free to ask.
Thanks,
Graham

dirtyden

Bank of Ireland: Graham wrote: »

Hi dirtyden,

Thanks for your query. A Banking365 transfer from a BOI current account to a BOI credit card is normally processed the next working day. Unfortunately due to an error over the weekend, transfers to Visas/Mastercards weren't processed in time. This has now been resolved and you should see the funds in your credit card account today. Sorry for any inconvenience caused to you.

If you have any other queries please feel free to ask.
Thanks,
Graham

Thanks for the reply Graham. Out of curiosity a couple of more questions.

Why does a transfer between 2 Bank of Ireland accounts take until the next working day? The money was in my current account, what needs to be verified? I have been told this is not the case for AIB where transfers are instant.

Do these need to be verified by someone? If that is the case would it be quicker for someone to go to the branch than use 365online?

Tow

dirtyden wrote: »

Why does a transfer between 2 Bank of Ireland accounts take until the next working day?

They have a mish mash of different computer systems, which synchronise during the night.

Bank of Ireland: Graham

No problem dirtyden,

If the transfer is between two Bank of Ireland current accounts, the funds will transfer immediately. Credit card payments are only processed overnight so transfers to them take at least 1 working day.

You can lodge cash to your credit card using a Lodgement ATM in the branch. This will credit your account instantly. You can click here to find your nearest branch with a Lodgement ATM.

I hope this helps to clear it up for you.
Thanks,
Graham

dirtyden

Thanks Graham.

Well its an answer I guess, not quite an explanation.

I can understand that your systems may synchronise overnight (not particularly efficient IT systems) but is this not scheduled over the weekend too? Why does this only occur on a working day? Still makes no sense to me. It is not exactly banking 365.

seamus

dirtyden wrote: »

I can understand that your systems may synchronise overnight (not particularly efficient IT systems) but is this not scheduled over the weekend too? Why does this only occur on a working day? Still makes no sense to me. It is not exactly banking 365.

While the synchronisatin process itself is automated, it would still require manual oversight by members of staff to ensure that the transfers took place correctly and any errors or strange looking figures were dealt with immediately.

If the process was allowed to continue over the weekend when the relevant staff members are not available to monitor the transfer, then these errors would sit idle for the weekend and may possible cost the bank or the customers money.

Transfers between current accounts is a totally different process and so doesn't require any manual oversight.

The main reason is that strictly speaking Bank of Ireland don't run your credit card account - Mastercard do - so the data has to be sync'ed between BOI and Mastercard on a scheduled basis and errors caught and accounted for.

dirtyden

seamus wrote: »

While the synchronisatin process itself is automated, it would still require manual oversight by members of staff to ensure that the transfers took place correctly and any errors or strange looking figures were dealt with immediately.

If the process was allowed to continue over the weekend when the relevant staff members are not available to monitor the transfer, then these errors would sit idle for the weekend and may possible cost the bank or the customers money.

Transfers between current accounts is a totally different process and so doesn't require any manual oversight.

The main reason is that strictly speaking Bank of Ireland don't run your credit card account - Mastercard do - so the data has to be sync'ed between BOI and Mastercard on a scheduled basis and errors caught and accounted for.

Thanks Seamus.

Is that not the case with all banks then (I have been told with AIB the same transaction is instant)?

In fairness to bank of ireland I have always found their customer service decent and have never had any problems banking with them, but this did bug me a little. Now that I know I will plan a littte better if the need arises in future.

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi dirtyden,

Thanks for your feedback on this. I'm trying to get some more information on it for you and I'll let you know as soon as I have anything.

Enjoy your weekend,
Graham

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi dirtyden,

I'd like to try to clarify this a little further but unfortunately I can't go into any great detail to explain it. It's basically down to the systems that we use for transfers from current accounts to credit cards, which don't operate over the weekend. Sorry I can't elaborate on it any more.

As I mentioned above, using the Lodgement ATM in the branch to lodge cash is the fastest way to put funds into your credit card account.

Our new Visa Debit cards are accepted anywhere the Visa symbol is displayed so this may offer an alternative to making a credit card payment using the money already in your current account. We expect all our customers' Laser cards to be replaced with Visa Debits by the end of September.

Thanks for your posts,
Graham

dirtyden

Bank of Ireland: Graham wrote: »

Hi dirtyden,

I'd like to try to clarify this a little further but unfortunately I can't go into any great detail to explain it. It's basically down to the systems that we use for transfers from current accounts to credit cards, which don't operate over the weekend. Sorry I can't elaborate on it any more.

As I mentioned above, using the Lodgement ATM in the branch to lodge cash is the fastest way to put funds into your credit card account.

Our new Visa Debit cards are accepted anywhere the Visa symbol is displayed so this may offer an alternative to making a credit card payment using the money already in your current account. We expect all our customers' Laser cards to be replaced with Visa Debits by the end of September.

Thanks for your posts,
Graham

Fair enough Graham,

Thanks

FGR

Thanks for that info Graham.

I was looking to clear the ol CC recently and gave the ATM lodgement machines a shot.

Works a treat ! I know 365online is handy and all but sometimes you just want to get these things over and done with.

Legislator

Bank of Ireland: Graham wrote: »

No problem dirtyden,

If the transfer is between two Bank of Ireland current accounts, the funds will transfer immediately. Credit card payments are only processed overnight so transfers to them take at least 1 working day.

You can lodge cash to your credit card using a Lodgement ATM in the branch. This will credit your account instantly. You can click here to find your nearest branch with a Lodgement ATM.

I hope this helps to clear it up for you.
Thanks,
Graham

Graham, under the Payment Services Regulation 2009 a transfer of funds between two payment accounts held with the same payment service provider should be immediate.

oB1

Legislator wrote: »

Graham, under the Payment Services Regulation 2009 a transfer of funds between two payment accounts held with the same payment service provider should be immediate.

As far as i am aware - as explained above, Credit Card accounts are the exceptions to this rule.

Legislator

I think if you check the FR that there are no exceptions.

oB1

Legislator wrote: »

I think if you check the FR that there are no exceptions.

Yep - i ain't arguing with you, just sharing my opinion on it.

Think its because ( as mentioned above ) when money is transferred from your current a/c to the banks credit card management account, there is actually a psychical presence required to transfer it to the MasterCard / visa systems - and that ofcourse, is physically impossible evening / weekends & public holidays.

As BOI: Graham Mentioned , he cannot go into detail, which is understandable, but it would be nice to get a verified answer from MasterCard/Visa - maybe? - i just like to know the little details,

Legislator

The detail is in the regulation - on the day thyat a bank receives fund for a beneficiary account it must make available and value date these funds immediately. So if I transfer funds between two accounts in the same bank the funds must be credited to the beneficiary account immediately. I believe immediately can be interpreted as a couple of hours but not the next day. It has nothing to do with Visa / Mastercard

oB1

Legislator wrote: »

The detail is in the regulation - on the day thyat a bank receives fund for a beneficiary account it must make available and value date these funds immediately. So if I transfer funds between two accounts in the same bank the funds must be credited to the beneficiary account immediately. I believe immediately can be interpreted as a couple of hours but not the next day. It has nothing to do with Visa / Mastercard

Maybe BOI: Graham - could give an opinion on this?

Just to establish some clarity here:

So if I transfer funds between two accounts in the same bank the funds must be credited to the beneficiary account immediately

More Specifically the statement:

two accounts in the same bank

I am completely open to correction, as i am not stating facts, just my general knowledge - BUT as i said, your current a/c is with BOI, if you transfer funds to your Credit Card - they have to credit an account that is NOT withing BOI's network? - that is my understanding anyway, i remember getting an explanation from someone who worked within a banks IT Department, but that's going back a year or two now, so cannot be certain.

Legislator

A current account with BoI and a credit card account with BoI are deemed to be two payment accounts with the same payment service provider and are subject to the provisions of the Payment Services Regulation.

seamus

The "immediate" clause only applies to cash payments onto an account.

"Payment orders" (which presumably include bank transfers) only have to be applied by the end of the next business day.

Maybe "Cash Payments" includes bank transfers, but I don't think so. Reading through the legislation, "cash" seems to imply actual physical presentations of currency at the bank.

oB1

seamus wrote: »

The "immediate" clause only applies to cash payments onto an account.

"Payment orders" (which presumably include bank transfers) only have to be applied by the end of the next business day.

Maybe "Cash Payments" includes bank transfers, but I don't think so. Reading through the legislation, "cash" seems to imply actual physical presentations of currency at the bank.

Agreed.

Though i think at the moment this topic is open for debate, as there are so many clauses to a clause ( if that makes sense :P )

Unless we can get a 100% Confirmed answer from a Verified source ( BOI ) and or (MasterCard / Visa )

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi all,

I'm looking into this for you at the moment and I'll post here once I have some clarification.

Thanks,
Graham

oB1

Bank of Ireland: Graham wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm looking into this for you at the moment and I'll post here once I have some clarification.

Thanks,
Graham

Thanks Graham

For me, i would just like some clarification - i like to be in the know, for other conversations of interest etc.

Not a major issue

Legislator

seamus wrote: »

The "immediate" clause only applies to cash payments onto an account.

"Payment orders" (which presumably include bank transfers) only have to be applied by the end of the next business day.

Maybe "Cash Payments" includes bank transfers, but I don't think so. Reading through the legislation, "cash" seems to imply actual physical presentations of currency at the bank.

Regulation 88 below states that the payee's bank must ensure that the amount is at the payee's disposal immediately after the amount is credited to the payee's payment service providers account.
In other words when the transfer is within the same bank and the currect account is debited then the beneficiary account must be credited immediately


Value date and availability of funds.

88. (1) The credit value date for the payee’s payment account is not to be later than the business day on which the amount of the payment transaction is credited to the payee’s payment service provider’s account. A payee’s payment service provider shall ensure that the amount of a payment transaction is at the payee’s disposal immediately after that amount is credited to the payee’s payment

service provider’s account.

seamus

I think you may have that wrong.

That article basically says that when a payment is received at the bank, the amount must be available to the customer on the same business day that it is received.

I don't see anything specifically in the regulations which makes any reference to accounts being within the same bank. The requirement in this case is that a payment order must be executed by the end of the next business day.

I understand what you're saying in that technically it would follow that if I make a transfer within my bank today, then the payment is "present" today and therefore must be applied to the other account today. However, when I make a payment order, the bank do not have to execute it until the end of the next business day. That is, if I make an order to transfer money today, the bank do not have to execute that until the of tomorrow (Wednesday), even if the transfer is from one account to another.
In which case it will not be "present" in the bank's account until open of business on Thursday, at which point I should see it in credit card account.

I could be wrong of course, but I see nothing in the legislation which makes reference to accounts in the same bank, so for all intents and purposes a bank can treat an internal transfer exactly the same as a transfer to/from another bank.

Legislator

If the payers account is debited then the bank has the money and must value date it and make it available. This is no different to moving between two current accounts in BoI (even in different branches) where the transfer is instant. I understand that Credit card systems are on different platforms but there is still an obligation under legislation for the credit card account to be credited immediately - certainly being the same business days or within a matter of hours.

Bank of Ireland: Graham

Hi all,

I'd like to try to clarify this for you. We apply credit card lodgements to accounts on the next working day as per the Payment Services Regulation. The lodgements are processed and credited to the credit card account overnight. However, for the benefit of our customers, they're value dated (i.e. the account gets the benefit of the payment) as per the date of the lodgement. As such, a lodgement received before the relevant cut-off time on Monday will appear on the credit card account on Tuesday. For interest and other purposes, it will be value dated as the day that it was lodged, i.e. Monday.

I hope that helps.
Thanks,
Graham