Kitchen tips problem

MGLman

Hi, friend of mine works on a kitchen as a KP and he tells me that he does not get any tips. it is my understanding that giving tips is a sign of an appreciation for overall service + quality etc. I know in many places they share tips according to some system. My point is that KP and kitchen staffs get the share of the tips always. But he was told that he will not get tips and the boss is not happy for asking why. is this fair?

thanks

tatli_lokma

its not fair, but not a lot you can do about it really as it is not something covered by an employment contract - it is usually just something arranged with the staff themselves.

He could always subtly chat to the other staff, waiters and the like, and see if they would have a problem with an alternative system. If everyone was happy to put a percentage of their tips into a pot for the kitchen staff, then the boss might be more willing to agree. Having said that, its not really the bosses call, as tips are a matter for staff to agree how they will divvy them up, but you don't really want to go pi$$ing the boss off either without the backup of the rest of the team.

Mrs OBumble

Little Ted wrote: »

Having said that, its not really the bosses call, as tips are a matter for staff to agree how they will divvy them up,

Ahh ... I think it is absolutely the boss's call how any money on the premises is managed.

OP, is your friend being paid at least the minimum wage for his/her age and work-expereince? Are all hours being paid? If so, then there's no comeback, unless there's something in the contract about tips. If s/he doesn't like the pay for the job, then job-hunting is in order.

tatli_lokma

JustMary wrote: »

Ahh ... I think it is absolutely the boss's call how any money on the premises is managed.

I would argue that only with the staff's consent. At the end of the day, the customers are tipping the staff, not providing extra payment to the business. Unless it is as a service charge on the bill. If its a case of a tip jar then I think it very unfair for the boss to dictate how staff will divvy up their tips.

Mrs OBumble

Little Ted wrote: »

If its a case of a tip jar then I think it very unfair for the boss to dictate how staff will divvy up their tips.

So it would be ok for the staff to say "You're not getting any of the tips 'cos you're [ fat | ugyly | sleeping with the boxx | Polish | <<insert any other unpopular group here ] ?

am i bovvered

Every member of staff from the kp to the head chef to all the restaurant service staff are vital for the customer receiving a good dining experience.
As a sign of that tips are shared equally amongst all staff working, it is the system we use and it never causes any problem.

tatli_lokma

JustMary wrote: »

So it would be ok for the staff to say "You're not getting any of the tips 'cos you're [ fat | ugyly | sleeping with the boxx | Polish | <<insert any other unpopular group here ] ?

what????

the point I was making is that if the tips are a in the format of a tip jar or similar, then as a group, collectively the team should agree on the method of how the tips will be divided up. I don't really see what point you are trying to make? so one member of the team is a bigoted twat, therefore the team shouldn't have a say in how the tips they earned are doled out? Whats to say a boss can't be a bigot? supposing supposing supposing

Tips are a gratuity given to the staff for a service provided. The manager/boss shouldn't be in a position to dictate to staff how to deal with tips. As a manager it is their job to ensure that frictions in the team are minimal and that fairness prevails. This should apply to tips also, and as such the staff should be consulted on how they wish for the tips they earn to be managed. The manager could make suggestions and ensure that a fair system is in place, but for the manager to be the enforcing an unfair system is bad management.

Clearly OP's manager sees the kitchen staff as less valuable than the waiting staff. Surely this is the same as saying (to use your example) "You're not getting any of the tips 'cos...you're only kitchen staff"

I still maintain that the OP should casually ask around amongst the others on the workforce and see how they feel about the way tips are treated.

Mrs OBumble

Little Ted, there are a lot of "should's" in your post.

So I would ask "according to who". You have a particular sense of how things "should" work, but that doesn't mean everyone shares that. Personally I don't believe in tipping at all, especially since the minimum wage here is so high.

If someone takes a case to the Rights Commissioner or courts, complaining that they didn't get a fair share of tips because of their age, gender, race, etc ... then you can bet your bottom dollar (euro, punt, whatever!) that it will be the boss who's held accountable and potentially fined etc.

Manager's get paid a managerial salary for managing, and that involves a lot more than just "reducing friction".

If staff are valued and well-managed, their wages / bonuses will be high enough that they don't need tips to live on, and they will be motivated by genuine desire to give good service not by the chance that "they might give us a big tip".

tatli_lokma

JustMary wrote: »

If someone takes a case to the Rights Commissioner or courts, complaining that they didn't get a fair share of tips because of their age, gender, race, etc ... then you can bet your bottom dollar (euro, punt, whatever!) that it will be the boss who's held accountable and potentially fined etc.

firstly how you personally feel about the custom of tipping is neither here nor there.

If we go on your example of going to the rights commissioner then I would argue that the KP has as much right to do exactly as you say as they are not getting their fair share. There are plenty of 'discriminatory' labels you list which you could use for backing it up, least alone the fact that some staff get tips and others don't. So to use your own reasoning the manager would be liable. So in this sense you have agreed with my point - the tips should be divided in a fair manner.

JustMary wrote: »

Manager's get paid a managerial salary for managing, and that involves a lot more than just "reducing friction".

I didn't say a manager's only duty is to reduce friction, but it is a significant part of the role. I never said it was all they do. But it is one of their responsibilities as someone who manages people.

JustMary wrote: »

If staff are valued and well-managed, their wages / bonuses will be high enough that they don't need tips to live on, and they will be motivated by genuine desire to give good service not by the chance that "they might give us a big tip"

In an ideal world maybe, but we don't live in an ideal world - personally I think you have a rather naive view on this, but that is a discussion for another day.

JustMary wrote: »

Little Ted, there are a lot of "should's" in your post. So I would ask "according to who". You have a particular sense of how things "should" work, but that doesn't mean everyone shares that. Personally I don't believe in tipping at all, especially since the minimum wage here is so high.

And if you have an objection to my use of the word 'should' then please suggest what word would be more correct?

am i bovvered

To be honest any time I've ever given a tip it's been intended for the person that served me, or for them to pool between themselves and the other waiters/waitresses. However I can see the sense in the scenario below:

am i bovvered wrote: »

Every member of staff from the kp to the head chef to all the restaurant service staff are vital for the customer receiving a good dining experience.
As a sign of that tips are shared equally amongst all staff working, it is the system we use and it never causes any problem.

That said, (and I know this sounds really condescending but I'm in a minimum wage position myself) a kitchen porter is kind of the bottom of the food chain AFAIK, and as long as he's being paid the legal amount, I can understand why his boss would think it cheeky for him to be asking for a portion of the tips. He should probably just accept it and forget about the issue.

Opticom

am i bovvered wrote: »

Every member of staff from the kp to the head chef to all the restaurant service staff are vital for the customer receiving a good dining experience.
As a sign of that tips are shared equally amongst all staff working, it is the system we use and it never causes any problem.

Depends what the waiting staff are being paid