NEED SOME HELP!!

FANTAPANTS

Im new to golf 2 years and this year i have the job as comp sec, long story short their are a few lads in the club which are holding on to their handicaps and i know that as they are saying around me, not to me they dont want to get cut until after such and such event ive heard it a few times is their anything i can do??? This sort of stuff annoys the crap outta me as i started of last year off 19 lost 3 shots in a round and im only mad to lose shots and get better. Can i get in contact with GUI or is it pointless? Any help would be great

Benny Cake

Is it a club or society you're involved in? If its a club, you're first port of call is the handicap secretary... Discuss the issue with him/her and agree how to proceed.

irish bloke

FANTAPANTS wrote: »

Im new to golf 2 years and this year i have the job as comp sec, long story short their are a few lads in the club which are holding on to their handicaps and i know that as they are saying around me, not to me they dont want to get cut until after such and such event ive heard it a few times is their anything i can do??? This sort of stuff annoys the crap outta me as i started of last year off 19 lost 3 shots in a round and im only mad to lose shots and get better. Can i get in contact with GUI or is it pointless? Any help would be great

How are you going to prove it?

FANTAPANTS

its a club mate...i was talking to handicap sec and he didnt really know what we could do as theses lads only score good on classics away from club, when not rules of golf and when they go away to play in other courses when stableford is not in play. Have you any sugestions what we could do because we had montly medal 3 weeks ago and it was placing cause balls were picking up mud and he hit 86 around our course which is massive he is off 18 for 10 years so im told and hasnt lost a shot since he joined here 3 years ago im told but he still comes up trumps in the big days!!!

Benny Cake

FANTAPANTS wrote: »

its a club mate...i was talking to handicap sec and he didnt really know what we could do as theses lads only score good on classics away from club, when not rules of golf and when they go away to play in other courses when stableford is not in play. Have you any sugestions what we could do because we had montly medal 3 weeks ago and it was placing cause balls were picking up mud and he hit 86 around our course which is massive he is off 18 for 10 years so im told and hasnt lost a shot since he joined here 3 years ago im told but he still comes up trumps in the big days!!!

Assuming par 72, 86 is only 4 shots better than his handicap...

neckedit

clause 19, isn't that for any handicap adjustments if a player is winning or scoring heavily in teams or fourballs?

FANTAPANTS

Benny Cake wrote: »

Assuming par 72, 86 is only 4 shots better than his handicap...

he wont play in comps to hold on to his handicap, goes away to play in classics and then bomb them in and has been saying he is holding on to handicap for the golf digest thats gonna be held in our club he is easily off 10 i have played with him to see what the story was with him, and he always pulls up with 4/5 holes left so he just shoots his handicap. their has to be something a club can do about this its only a new club so we wouldnt be 100% on what we can do?

FANTAPANTS

neckedit wrote: »

clause 19, isn't that for any handicap adjustments if a player is winning or scoring heavily in teams or fourballs?

i wouldnt know mate only lifted club for first time 2 years ago but will check it out. Going to give GUI a buzz tomorrow and see from their

DiegoWorst

FANTAPANTS wrote: »

Im new to golf 2 years and this year i have the job as comp sec, long story short their are a few lads in the club which are holding on to their handicaps and i know that as they are saying around me, not to me they dont want to get cut until after such and such event ive heard it a few times is their anything i can do??? This sort of stuff annoys the crap outta me as i started of last year off 19 lost 3 shots in a round and im only mad to lose shots and get better. Can i get in contact with GUI or is it pointless? Any help would be great

Fair play for wanting to do something about it.
Trouble is, he's playing his h/cap to the letter of the law, make the law more strict and he'll find some other way around it.
You are depending on people to play honestly, some people are more honest than others.

FANTAPANTS

So im on a loser here then??? Can the club not cut him? Can they not look over his scores in the last year and cut him when the big ones are on? What about this golf digest its stableford points they surely must have to log their score after this?

Benny Cake

Be careful going out on a limb here... These guys are operating dishonestly but on paper they are doing nothing wrong. You could very quickly end up be ostracised in your club for "targeting" these individuals.... If there is a facility under clause 19 for them to be cut for repeatedly over performing in classics/fourballs then by all means inform the handicap secretary and let him administer the cut... Just my 2 cents

Dr_Colossus

Not meaning to sound condescending but one suggestion is to carefully word any written communication regarding general competition matters to members. I found your posts above very difficult to read from a grammatical and turn of phrase point of view.

One thing you can't do is accuse the suspected handicap minders in the club of your suspicions. Take for example the recent case of Thomas Talbot suing his golf club, The Hermitage, the club's handicap secretary and the GUI for defamation of character.
The best thing you can do is discuss and devise a protocol in conjunction with the club's handicap secretary for implementing clause 23 handicap adjustments based on general play. Generally such adjustment are made at the end of the year based on an annual review of each player's performances but such adjustments can be made anytime.

Fair play to you for tackling the problem, players deliberating minding their handicap is nonsensical to me but it takes all sorts to protect their handicap to grant them that edge in classics and team events. The example however you raised of the 18 handicapper shooting a gross 86 which is suspect is a nett 68 doesn't sound that alarming especially since winter rules were in place. It's more the case of the golfer accumulating 0.1s but having a winning record in classics and team events that need to be tracked and handed handicap adjustments.

FANTAPANTS

Benny Cake wrote: »

Be careful going out on a limb here... These guys are operating dishonestly but on paper they are doing nothing wrong. You could very quickly end up be ostracised in your club for "targeting" these individuals.... If there is a facility under clause 19 for them to be cut for repeatedly over performing in classics/fourballs then by all means inform the handicap secretary and let him administer the cut... Just my 2 cents

cheers mate was on to handicap sec just their he has had complaints from others bout this lad, won classic 2 weeks ago LCD tv and 1 a few weeks before that at another 1 . I thought rules were brought in that if you scored really well or won anything in classics you had to inform club i could be wrong?

FANTAPANTS

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Not meaning to sound condescending but one suggestion is to carefully word any written communication regarding general competition matters to members. I found your posts above very difficult to read from a grammatical and turn of phrase point of view.

One thing you can't do is accuse the suspected handicap minders in the club of your suspicions. Take for example the recent case of Thomas Talbot suing his golf club, The Hermitage, the club's handicap secretary and the GUI for defamation of character.
The best thing you can do is discuss and devise a protocol in conjunction with the club's handicap secretary for implementing clause 23 handicap adjustments based on general play. Generally such adjustment are made at the end of the year based on an annual review of each player's performances but such adjustments can be made anytime.

Fair play to you for tackling the problem, players deliberating minding their handicap is nonsensical to me but it takes all sorts to protect their handicap to grant them that edge in classics and team events. The example however you raised of the 18 handicapper shooting a gross 86 which is suspect is a nett 68 doesn't sound that alarming especially since winter rules were in place. It's more the case of the golfer accumulating 0.1s but having a winning record in classics and team events that need to be tracked and handed handicap adjustments.

Sorry about that but im not great at grammer or spelling to many years skipping school but i can see were your coming from cheers for the info here lads im just not up to scratch on rules of golf as yet but this stuff this lad and others is at boils my p**s

spacecoyote

Aren't players supposed to hand in any cards from society/classic,etc... outings to there home clubs,to allow for general play adjustments?

FANTAPANTS

spacecoyote wrote: »

Aren't players supposed to hand in any cards from society/classic,etc... outings to there home clubs,to allow for general play adjustments?

thats what i thought i knew i read that somewhere!!!

mafc

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecoyote
Aren't players supposed to hand in any cards from society/classic,etc... outings to there home clubs,to allow for general play adjustments?
thats what i thought i knew i read that somewhere!!!

There should be a book beside the computer where all winning away scores are recorded. ie 1st, 2nd or 3rd

charlieIRL

spacecoyote wrote: »

Aren't players supposed to hand in any cards from society/classic,etc... outings to there home clubs,to allow for general play adjustments?

i informed my handicap secretary of a few good results I had in a few classics and he wasn't interested.

Fair play for wanting to tackle these guys but i would thread very very carefully, remember he will prob have a few mates who are playing partners / members who are at the same thing and will stand up for each other.

FANTAPANTS

charlieIRL wrote: »

i informed my handicap secretary of a few good results I had in a few classics and he wasn't interested.

Fair play for wanting to tackle these guys but i would thread very very carefully, remember he will prob have a few mates who are playing partners / members who are at the same thing and will stand up for each other.

Well have a playing partner of his,who only joined this year who has vented concern over this man as he seems only to come good on big/prize worthy tourneys

PARlance

I've only just joined a club so I haven't experienced this before.
That said, from lurking on boards... I'm well aware of the issue.

My number one goal in golf is to lower my handicap, as long as I am improving my game then I'll be happy.

Would I be correct in saying that the majority of these guys have been playing for some time now?
I can see how someone that has been playing golf for a certain number of years could hit a plateau in terms of improvement.
I'd say it's in a lot of our make up to switch to the next goal after that, the obvious one for me would be winning comps.
The system is so open to abuse, I can see (can't justify) why lads might keep a few shots up their sleeves.

Holy f**k, I'm thinking like a bandit
Watch out for me in 10 years

PARlance

Apologies for the lack of knowledge of the rules (I've got the rule book and am trying to eat it at present)

In order to offer some suggestion as to how to resolve this problem.

Could the following scenario be implemented

Limit +.1s in a year to 20, i.e 2.0 (I think this is in place?)
Review any Exceptional wins at the end of each year under the ESR and penalise greater than the 2.0
i.e if some bandit has won Captains prize etc and also amassed 20 +.1s, then give them a ESR of -3 at the end of the year, thus giving them a net reduction of -1 of their handicap for the year after review

PhilipMarlowe

As a club you should have a handicap (sub)committee which would be a minimum of 3 people I think... so maybe the handicap sec, competition sec and captain for example. This committee would also be responsible for the year-end review when increases are considered for all members. However, you can (and should) consider cuts in-season and not just at annual review time. 1 good result in a classic doesn't necessarily warrant a cut but I'd take a dim view of someone not reporting a good score...
There is a sheet on the golfnet site (when you log in as a club admin) that you can download and print - it should be on the notice board at your club for the reporting of away scores (or use a book to record them). Technically every member is supposed to report all their away score but this is rarely done in practice.
Get the sheet up at your clubhouse and notify the membership that they are obliged to report their away scores inc. society, team events etc.
If they do report then you have a record - if they don't report and you have proof of their results from elsewhere (ask the host club or organiser for the cards/results) then a more severe cut might remind them to report in future.

Call your provincial branch of the GUI and ask them for guidance, tell them you need some help as a new club in formulating a policy.

matt-dublin

Is he not winning anything locally?

surely if he's winning club competitions when his scores are uploaded into golfnet he would get automatically cut?

If he's not being cut and not participating in GUI affiliated opens there's nothing here you can do.

You can only cut him on general play if he's submitting cards in gui/club competitions.