Reducing ESB

struggling sam

Looking for ideas to see if I can further reduce my electricity consumption any further if possible.

Middle aged male, in rented house, home all day, oil central heating. I am averaging 9.8 units per day, over the last four weeks, which I check daily.

PC on 3-4 hours a day
32" LCD on 2-3 hours a day
Cooked dinner in evening, breakfast/lunch no cooking generally
3-4 cups of tea daily
1 three-four minute shower daily
DO NOT USE IMMERSION
Dishwasher if used at all, every 2nd day
2 washing machine loads weekly
DO NOT USE TUMBLE DRYER
Minimal lighting at this time of year
No lights left on overnight, main lighting areas have CFC bulbs
Stereo, rather elaborate, on 4-5 hours a day.
No appliances other than skybox left on standby.

PaleRider

Switch off appliances at plug before bedtime.

Only boil the water you need in kettle for tea.

Use washing machine at lower temperature.

Check no outside lights left on.

I think your esb a bit high yet.

Check garage for anything switched on.

freddyuk

It is worth checking what each powered device consumes in standby. Then calculate the annual energy used and the cost. You may find that the cash value of switching off standby for a few devices is really not going to make any difference and may cost you more in the end. If you turn off many modern TV's via the switch it is the switch that will commonly fail and is not economically repairable so the actual saving is wiped out many times over. If your standby cost is €20 per year and you need a new TV then it is not worth it. Not filling the kettle or just one weekly wash is going to save many times the value of switching off standby power.
If you have a modern fusebox with MCB's then you can get a cheap energy meter and check which circuits are consuming all the power. If you use electric cooking appliances then a short time will consume a lot of power. If you average 400 watts per hour for 24 hours then you are at your current usage. "stereo rather elaborate" suggests some serious amp power?? Just check your existing appliances and see if you can actually reduce much more by turning things off.

struggling sam

PaleRider wrote: »

Switch off appliances at plug before bedtime.

Only boil the water you need in kettle for tea.

Use washing machine at lower temperature.

Check no outside lights left on.

I think your esb a bit high yet.

Check garage for anything switched on.

Kettle always has minimum amount of water.
All washes @ 30 or 40 degrees.
No outside lights used this time of year.
Have no garage lol!

Does switching off appliances at socket really make a difference?

And thanks for your reply

SS

struggling sam

freddyuk wrote: »

It is worth checking what each powered device consumes in standby. Then calculate the annual energy used and the cost. You may find that the cash value of switching off standby for a few devices is really not going to make any difference and may cost you more in the end. If you turn off many modern TV's via the switch it is the switch that will commonly fail and is not economically repairable so the actual saving is wiped out many times over. If your standby cost is €20 per year and you need a new TV then it is not worth it. Not filling the kettle or just one weekly wash is going to save many times the value of switching off standby power.
If you have a modern fusebox with MCB's then you can get a cheap energy meter and check which circuits are consuming all the power. If you use electric cooking appliances then a short time will consume a lot of power. If you average 400 watts per hour for 24 hours then you are at your current usage. "stereo rather elaborate" suggests some serious amp power?? Just check your existing appliances and see if you can actually reduce much more by turning things off.

I agree on the standby issue, particularly with certain electronic devices. But the Sky box is the only device that I have in standby. On the cooking side, I would not call myself a chef or cook fancy meals and am only cooking for one. Most of the time I will cook enough for two +, its always easier and then have a meal ready the next day or so and just use the microwave to heat it.

I have an open mind as to whether switching appliance off at the socket does save any electricity.

Stereo may be the culpurit, will do some tests over the weekend. It consists of cd player, avr receiver, power amp, and sub, BUT, power amp and sub only used for serious listening, say half of the time stereo is in use. The rest of the time it would be fm radio with just the AVR on or maybe with cd player, more for background.

Personally, I thought I was doing very well, but do see threads where other esb bills/usage seem to be a lot lower.

Thanks for your reply,

SS

quentingargan

Struggling Sam - there would seem to be something wrong here. I would get one of those cheap monitors to see what is being consumed and when. You can either get a very cheap plug-in device that would tell you what each item is using (like this) or an overall electricity monitor like this one. There are cheaper versions of the latter, but I don't want to get into brands. If you google electricity monitor, you'll find 'em.

A few years back I got one of the plug-in monitors, tested it on our fridge and within a week we had a new one. You might find some dodgy old fridge or freezer gobbling the power. Or if you live in one of the rush-built estates, you might find half your neighbour's sockets are on your meter:eek: (I've never seen that, but hey, there has to be a first for everything!)

PaleRider

You should take a reading of ESB meter at night before bed. Therefore, check power consumption through the night. You might be surprised. Older appliances will tend to use more power when on standby and when notched off at plug. You should check each appliance power consumption when on full - on standby - and switched off. I think your esb consumption is high for one person. Something does not add up.

dardhal

struggling sam wrote: »

Looking for ideas to see if I can further reduce my electricity consumption any further if possible.

Middle aged male, in rented house, home all day, oil central heating. I am averaging 9.8 units per day, over the last four weeks, which I check daily.

That figure around 10 units (KWh) a day during the last month, without immersion tank, without tumble dryer and with oil heating, is well beyond reasonable for the stated appliances and home usage. For example, two people living in a small Dublin apartment during the worst (coldest) week this winter, everything being electrical, we topped at 14 KWh/day. 10.000 Wh is a huge amount of energy for mostly appliances and lighting, to me something seems very wrong with the results.

A normal PC and monitor shouldn't drain more than 250W peak. A 32" inch LCD consumes at around 120W. Kettle energy usage is negligible due to the short nature of their on cycles. The (power) shower is a power hog, but definitely more efficient than immersion tanks, as you only heat the amount of hot water you end up using, and six minutes even at 10KW is a single KWh. Dishwashers use less than 1 KWh in the Eco (50º C) program. Washing machines at 30-40º C use around 1 KWh per cycle. Halogen lights are inefficient, but you would have to be using a handful of them during many hours to make a significant dent in the consumption. Even older appliances of the type you mention most likely don't drain more than 5-10W when in power saving mode.

So, as I see it, there is something worth investigating, because your electricity usage seems very high and not according to your description.

kneemos

What kind of property do you live in.Buildings converted to flats can have weird set ups.Don't think the stereo could use a lot.

eth0

Is the PC the kind with a massive graphics card? also what power supply does it have, cheap ones can be very inefficient

Oldtree

start by switching off everything and check meter, do this a few times in the day, 8 12 6 and 9 and see if you're meter still going round. Once established all ok and that its your meter and your usage then try equipment one at a time and check meter one minute for each to see usage this will give you a rough baseline for each thing and tell you which one is eating the electric.

The older power showers can really eat electric.

struggling sam

Thanks for all the replies and advice. Can't do many tests until the weekend as my daughter is over.

The house was built approx 05-07, its a small estate of holiday homes, timber framed, semi d.

So all appliances, shower, etc. date from that period.

PC is bog standard more or less, friend of my son built it for me in 08, total parts cost incl monitor bout €600.00.

Stereo when running hard would use a fair bit, but its not run hard all the time its on.

I did forget to mention I use a C-Pap machine at night when sleeping, specs say it is 30 W.

Will keep all informed and thanks again!

Sam

Capt'n Midnight

SKY box uses almost full power in 'standby' so it can download EPG and updates, all that really turns off are led's and the output to the TV

Switch it off , or get a master slave plug and slave it off the TV
- if it's sky+ they you'd have to leave it on to record
- if there is snow /ice outside then leave on prevent build up on LNB

slight added risk of electronics dying when switched on vs. lower risk of electrolytic capacitors dying of old age - cost cutting over the last 15 years or so mean that the latter risk is higher for some devices

struggling sam

Ok a few test results.

All turned off except fridge & skybox
10/100 of a unit used over 70 minutes.

As above over 90 minutes 14/100 of unit used.

All switched off 3/100 of unit used over 70 minutes.

All switched off- 3 minute electic shower
2/10 of a unit used.

Can I assume them the meter is ok and there is no major draw when all is swithced off? There are two mains powered smoke detectors.

And I would think we can eliminate the shower as a major consumption area.

Capt'n Midnight

struggling sam wrote: »

All turned off except fridge & skybox
...

There are two mains powered smoke detectors.

smoke detectors will run for ages on a small - so next to nothing - and it's the one thing you don't want to turn off to save power
best thing to do is get a battery powered one and use it as well ,
(don't forget to test/replace the battery backup in the mains powered one too)


I'll say it again . SKY box uses almost as much power on standby as when on
the SKY+ box has a hard drive so it's using more power when on.

all those ads about putting your SKY box in standby are pure greenwashing
- slave it off the TV or switch off at night,
leave it on over night once every few months so it can upgrade itself.

10-14 Watts depending on the model http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=761596

also since the chunk of the power used by the LNB on the dish doesn't warm up your house.

quentingargan

I don't think you can just sample this over a few hours. If there is something gobbling your power, as it seems, it may be an intermittent load. There is something wrong with your readings - you don't seem to have appliances that could use that much power, but to trap the problem, you either need to take hourly readings or get a monitor onto your meter line. They're about €25 on eBay...

kneemos

Presumably your on a mains water supply.Well pumps are quite heavy on the juice.

kneemos

What type of sewerage system do you have? is there a pump connected.?

beazee

struggling sam wrote: »

Middle aged male, in rented house, home all day, oil central heating. I am averaging 9.8 units per day, over the last four weeks, which I check daily.

Both in full time employment, toddler in creche, oil central heating, renting two storey semi detached. Averaging 8.7 kWh daily (19/04 -11/06), 8.8kWh (19/02 - 18/04), 13.3 kWh (14/12-18/02)

PC on 3-4 hours a day (We've two laptops) ✓
32" LCD on 2-3 hours a day (could be more than that with cartoons all weekend mornings) ✓
Cooked dinner in evening, sometimes breakfast, lunch no cooking generally ✓✓
3-4 cups of tea daily (1-2 large teapots, coffeepot in the morning) ✓
1 three-four minute shower daily (5 mins minimum Power Shower mornings) ✓
DO NOT USE IMMERSION ✓
Dishwasher if used at all, every 2nd day ✓
2 washing machine loads weekly (could be up to 4-6 in given week) ✓
DO NOT USE TUMBLE DRYER ✓
Minimal lighting at this time of year ✓
No lights left on overnight, main lighting areas have CFC bulbs (CFC everywhere)✓✓
Stereo, rather elaborate, on 4-5 hours a day. (no stereo)
No appliances other than skybox left on standby. (UPC box, router, modem, TV consuming 0.129 kWh on average according to the OWL meter readings when leaving in the morning)

A monitor like the one below will help you finding the largest energy sucker in your apartment, once it's found - disconnect the fecker. I am not associated with the seller in any way, just found the one AIRTRICITY gave to their customers.
http://www.adverts.ie/other-electronics/energy-monitor/1580521

Hope this helps

struggling sam

Hi all!

Any idea how much esb mains smoke detectors use?

I have run 4 tests (an hour each time) recently with everything switched off, and meter shows approx 3/100 of a unit used. Now this would come to .72 of a unit for a 24 hour day. Seems a bit much or does it?

Have more figures to post later, I reckon the stereo is the culprit!

beazee

struggling sam wrote: »

I reckon the stereo is the culprit!

Might be stereo, might be PC itself.
Buy yourself a set of remote controlled sockets, like these and cut off PC or stereo simply pressing the remote button once you're done.

Why raising PC?
Laptop charger marked at MAX 90W seems to be consuming between 32-33W during usual office work.
From what I recall PC power packs are rated 300-350W not to mention what your monitor uses.

struggling sam

Well first test of stereo done. OUCH
Hour of hi level playing and .92 of a unit, nothing else on other than fridge. Now I dont listen at that level for every hour its on, but is quite a shocker. Will test for low level listening power consumption later. Also, tend to use it along with telly, so bit of change needed there.

Still would like to know more about power used by smoke detectors.

Sam

beazee

struggling sam wrote: »

Still would like to know more about power used by smoke detectors.

Should be out of your concern. Knowing they may be battery operated for years means the consumption is close to 0.

First google result gives you answer:
Most mains powered smoke alarms draw about 0.4 watts. This means a total power consumption over one year of 3.5kWh costing you around $0.70 per unit per year.
50¢ per annum

Capt'n Midnight

beazee wrote: »

Should be out of your concern. Knowing they may be battery operated for years means the consumption is close to 0.

First google result gives you answer:
Most mains powered smoke alarms draw about 0.4 watts. This means a total power consumption over one year of 3.5kWh costing you around $0.70 per unit per year.
50¢ per annum

over here a unit costs 20c

also 3.5Kwh sounds way high when you consider that a 9V battery with just 1 Watt-hour can keep it going for a year .


Laptop charger will run a laptop at full power AND charge the battery at the same time, the 90W is not the average power. To work out how much power the laptop uses divide the Watt hours of the battery by the time it runs on battery.
eg: ( 4400MAh x 11.3V ) / 2 hours = 24.86 Watts.

The same is true of PC's
on stand by a PC will use between 1 to 3 Watts depending on mode selected
some older monitors can use up to 8 watts

Pentium 4's are room heaters, very hungry beasts. other than that most PC's would use a lot less power in idle
same as laptop, the power rating is only used when all the fans sound like a jet engine taking off


turn off everything until the meter stops.
then turn on one by one till it starts running again
if it doesn't stop then trip the switches one by one etc.
you may have to change clocks on cookers and stuff too


note a Fridge will not run all the time, to test it open the door till the motor starts and that will give you it's peak (not average) power.

Lidl/Aldi do power meters for a tenner every few months.
most other hardware stores do similar ones for two or three times the price.

unkel

I just happened to take my €9.99 Aldi powermeter around the house a few days ago. Some shockers.

Laptop / portable cd player and other chargers / PSUs use only about 2W. Plug in mouse repellers 0W

Both my 32" LCD TVs use 30W standby :eek:

Old CRT TV uses 2W standby

Both UPC hard disk recorders use 15W standby :eek:

One is used for recording, so will leave that on. From now on both LCDs and one recorder will be switched off at the plug saving 75W continuously, or over €100 per year :eek:

Bruthal

struggling sam wrote: »

Well first test of stereo done. OUCH
Hour of hi level playing and .92 of a unit, nothing else on other than fridge. Now I dont listen at that level for every hour its on, but is quite a shocker. Will test for low level listening power consumption later. Also, tend to use it along with telly, so bit of change needed there.

Still would like to know more about power used by smoke detectors.

Sam

I doubt that`s the correct level for a stereo anyway. Its likely other items were also on to use almost 1 unit in an hour.

struggling sam

robbie7730 wrote: »

I doubt that`s the correct level for a stereo anyway. Its likely other items were also on to use almost 1 unit in an hour.

Nothing else on other than fridge, have ran 3 one hourly tests and figures varies by 2 to 3/100's.
Stereo comprises AVR receiver, separate am/fm tuner, cd player, dvd player, power amp, and subwoofer. And for the test, I ran the system hard.

Oldtree

Are you leaving a phone charger in the socket with switch on, some use power without being pluged into phone.

freddyuk

unkel wrote: »

I just happened to take my €9.99 Aldi powermeter around the house a few days ago. Some shockers.

Laptop / portable cd player and other chargers / PSUs use only about 2W. Plug in mouse repellers 0W

Both my 32" LCD TVs use 30W standby :eek:

Old CRT TV uses 2W standby

Both UPC hard disk recorders use 15W standby :eek:

One is used for recording, so will leave that on. From now on both LCDs and one recorder will be switched off at the plug saving 75W continuously, or over €100 per year :eek:

I think these power meters are not accurate at low power levels. Your readings may be erroneous. Manufacturers data would be better.
eg.

Power,Weight & Dimensions

• Yes Vesa Universal Wall Bracket Fitting
• 795.0 x 568.0 x 207.0 Dimensions (W x H x D) With Stand
• 795.0 x 504.0 x 73.5 Dimensions (W x H x D) Without Stand
• 82 W Power Consumption
• 0.30 W Standby Power Consumption

This is a 32inch LG and others will be similar. I think standby power consumption is a red herring and your efforts should be directed elsewhere to save power.

kneemos

The savings can't be worth the hassle of turning everything on standby on and off

Oldtree

duplicate

Oldtree

Something practical to do immediatly if you havnt done it already,

ring esb sales on 1850 30 50 90

they are offering:

2% discount for online billing to your email account (expires june 2013 ie ring them then to see any new discount offer)
and
4% discount for direct debit (charged to your account 2 weeks after date of bill, dont know expiry date of this discount offer, must ask)

6% discount got to be worth a phone call, other discounts may apply to gas supply too.