New car pricing

scorpy9

I have had a bug up my behind about this following subject and just wondering what your thoughts might be.

Recently I went to a main dealer looking to buy a new car. The car is advertised on carzone at a shade under 28k but at the dealers they quote 29400. The usual 400 for met. paint, playing dumb I enquired where the other grand came in and was told the usual delivery, pdi, cleaning and bank charges (new one on me) none of this mentioned in their ad.

Now to the best of my knowledge all paints these days are water based and both flat and mets require lacquer thus meaning the car goes through the same painting process either way so why the extra???

I run my own small business and can claim tax allowances for legit expenses such as... staff wages, materials, bank charges and delivery charges etc. You'll note the similarity between the two lists.

Question is if your dealer can claim back these expenses why are we required to pay them ??? I remember back in the day there was a nominal charge for these dubious expenses but the bones of a grand and a half is really extracting the Michael.

I see the SIMI are moaning about falling car sales and Dealers closing down. Now whilst I am saddened at the thought of people losing their jobs and I wish it wasn't so, maybe if they put a bit more effort into giving better deals and less time dreaming up spurious charges maybe their industry might be in better shape.

Maybe I have gotten this all wrong and the motor trade are subject to a different tax regime to the rest of the business community, have I missed something

Presumably the advertised price is excluding all there charges, no doubt like they claim their legitimate expenses and no doubt like them you charge your clients sufficiently to make it worthwhile for you to provide the service or product to them.
As with everything shop around and get the best deal.
If they can claim for the expenses why should you pay them? It's not a magic pot that fills itself, all expenses are coming from the companies sales revenue.

scorpy9

Obviously I trade to make a profit and part of costing takes expenses into account but to remain competitive, I can't and don't pass on spurious expenses. I don't wish to sound corny but the truth is if it's not costing me any extra (ie through tax relief or whatever reason) then there's nothing to pass on. I'm not looking for a pat on the back or anything it never really occured to me to operate any other way. I've managed to survive for the bones of thirty years based on the nett cost of doing business.

The margin on a new car would be small relative to the advertised ex delivery and related charges price, they thus pass on these charges and there's a margin on them too. Getting the car ready for the customer to drive away is essentially a service that takes time and effort.

Mar4ix

RoverJames wrote: »

The margin on a new car would be small relative to the advertised ex delivery and related charges price, they thus pass on these charges and there's a margin on them too. Getting the car ready for the customer to drive away is essentially a service that takes time and effort.

I believe it have to be in to price advertised. it is silly , when people coming after what you advertised, and you charge extra for tha , for tha and etc. imagine if you buying pint of guiness in pub, price tag says... 3.50, when you order, barmen says" five euro", you ask," why is that ?" barmen answers... "have to pay cleaners, deliveries, my own work, have to pay bills and pay rent." ... same situation about cars. all these "related charges" is just spurious charges... where they can play , depend what costumer is.

When i was buying 2 years ago, via scrappage scheme, there was advertised 2.5 k discount from any new car, polo was 17,5k, that time, i got 15 k bill, plus i ordered something for comfort for another 1 k. i was cash buyer, and there was no any related charges, what i liked, and was a bit worried about.
scorpy9 ... just shop around, youll find some garages would love to have a business with you.

AltAccount

scorpy9 wrote: »

...none of this mentioned in their ad...

I guarantee they mention it in the ad...

colm_mcm

Mar4ix wrote: »

I believe it have to be in to price advertised. it is silly , when people coming after what you advertised, and you charge extra for tha , for tha and etc. imagine if you buying pint of guiness in pub, price tag says... 3.50, when you order, barmen says" five euro", you ask," why is that ?" barmen answers... "have to pay cleaners, deliveries, my own work, have to pay bills and pay rent." ... same situation about cars. all these "related charges" is just spurious charges... where they can play , depend what costumer is.

When i was buying 2 years ago, via scrappage scheme, there was advertised 2.5 k discount from any new car, polo was 17,5k, that time, i got 15 k bill, plus i ordered something for comfort for another 1 k. i was cash buyer, and there was no any related charges, what i liked, and was a bit worried about.
scorpy9 ... just shop around, youll find some garages would love to have a business with you.

Just to say, I'm sure the ad the OP saw was placed by the distributor

You see Guinness in the off license for €2, are you then miffed that you have to pay €5

Scrappage scheme was different in that some manufacturers brought in on the road pricing for their advertising.

Green Diesel

The prices should be advertised as on-the-road prices to avoid confusion.

colm_mcm

Fiat tried this with on the road pricing, no discounts.

Problem is Irish people don't get it and would prefer a higher list price and higher trade in price, even if cost to change is the same.

People also love a discount, even if its artificial

Green Diesel

colm_mcm wrote: »

Fiat tried this with on the road pricing, no discounts.

Problem is Irish people don't get it and would prefer a higher list price and higher trade in price, even if cost to change is the same.

People also love a discount, even if its artificial

True, but the on-the-road price can also be put artificially higher. At least then someone with the cash can buy the car and drive it home for the advertised price without the hassle of haggling (if they choose).

scorpy9

AltAccount wrote: »

I guarantee they mention it in the ad...

Double checked the Ads as there was more than one. Sorry to disagree but positively no mention. Just quoting the RRP to get you in the door.

I went with finances in place but the extra €1400 meant I had to walk away. Bought used else where in the end.

I suppose I just believe the "delivery & related charges" are exaggerated. I know it takes a bit to PDI the car etc. but your workshop costs X amount per year and the the staff are being paid one way or another. If you're not selling any cars then no one is getting paid. In this case they lost a sale. Is it not better to make the margin the importer has built in, than nothing at all. I suppose I just had a grievance at feeling it was a bit of a rip off, if they had of advertised an all in price I would have known I couldn't afford it and would have stayed away anyway, so it probably doesn't matter one way or the other.

coylemj

colm_mcm wrote: »

You see Guinness in the off license for €2, are you then miffed that you have to pay €5

Not a valid comparison. If it was, it would be possible to buy a brand new car, pick it up off the ship in Rosslare or Dublin port with the factory wax still on it, no warranty and no PDI, you can't.

Anything above and beyond the RRP should be an option that the customer can decline, if it's a mandatory part of the deal it should be included in the RRP.

opinion guy

colm_mcm wrote: »

Fiat tried this with on the road pricing, no discounts.

Problem is Irish people don't get it and would prefer a higher list price and higher trade in price, even if cost to change is the same.

People also love a discount, even if its artificial

There's a simple fix for that - just make a law that advertised prices should be on the road prices. If a dealer wants to give a discount beyond that thats his or her prerogative.

Anan1

Green Diesel wrote: »

True, but the on-the-road price can also be put artificially higher. At least then someone with the cash can buy the car and drive it home for the advertised price without the hassle of haggling (if they choose).

Out of interest, is there any car on the market today that can't be bought without trade-in for the advertised list price?

AltAccount

scorpy9 wrote: »

Double checked the Ads as there was more than one. Sorry to disagree but positively no mention. Just quoting the RRP to get you in the door.

I went with finances in place but the extra €1400 meant I had to walk away. Bought used else where in the end.

I suppose I just believe the "delivery & related charges" are exaggerated.

Is the issue that:
The ad didn't mention delivery & related charges
or
It did, but you weren't prepared for them to be as high as they were

€1,400's a lot, what's the car/spec?

ShadowHearth

Green Diesel wrote: »

The prices should be advertised as on-the-road prices to avoid confusion.

This.

It is really annoying when they advertise at one price, but when you start digging in to it, it is always become 2-3k more.
They should advertise and show prices "on the road". Not "charges excluded".

Anan1

ShadowHearth wrote: »

This.

It is really annoying when they advertise at one price, but when you start digging in to it, it is always become 2-3k more.
They should advertise and show prices "on the road". Not "charges excluded".

Can anyone give me an example of a car where the list price excluding delivery is higher than the price at which the garage will sell the car? When you start digging the price is less, not more.

R.O.R

If the manufacturer RRP included delivery, then that would be subject to VRT. To acheive the same profit on delivery (and all that encompasses) would mean the €1,000 (and that's high for a manufacturer in Ireland) becomes €1,140 for a car in band A (or more, or less - can't be bothered working it out properly at this time in the morning).

Seperating the charge out from the factory price makes it VRT exempt.

As Anan1 states above, I haven't come across any car in Ireland that you can't buy (on the road) for the same or less than the advertised ex. works price.

Delivery charges are usually negotiable as well, except BMW for some reason - never paid less than €850.

Anan1

R.O.R wrote: »

If the manufacturer RRP included delivery, then that would be subject to VRT. To acheive the same profit on delivery (and all that encompasses) would mean the €1,000 (and that's high for a manufacturer in Ireland) becomes €1,140 for a car in band A (or more, or less - can't be bothered working it out properly at this time in the morning).

Seperating the charge out from the factory price makes it VRT exempt.

I never thought of that!

lifer_sean

R.O.R wrote: »

Delivery charges are usually negotiable as well, except BMW for some reason - never paid less than €850.

That has to be delivery from the factory, not just Rosslare / Dublin ? Delivery within Ireland should be more like 100+vat + a fuel surcharge, say 150 max ?