Wild Beasts drum sound

madtheory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGoqAFvsYs4

The thread on drum mics got me thinking about this. Actually serendipity was at play. I was enjoying Talk Talk's Laughing Stock again recently, loving the drums again.

But just got Smother by Wild Beasts- that drummer blows me away.

The recordings are beautifully done. Anyone else rate this band? Recorded by Richard Formby.

krd

madtheory wrote: »

Sorry to bust ya bubble. But all the percussion on that is a mixture and probably a loop, with an arp playing drum sounds.

And it's the same for lots of the other sounds - it's just an arpegeator.

The only bits that aren't programmed electronics, are the voice and guitar.


If the drummer were actually playing those rhythm patterns, you'd hear a variation bar to bar - you don't. So, it's either a loop, or, and, a bit of arping.

madtheory

An arpeggiator for the drums? You mean sequencer, right? Some people can actually play that way. Want proof? Here he is doing it live. Blink and you'll miss it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpoIoPkQNMw

Incidentally, Jean Michel Jarre has a guy called Francis Rimbert in his band for years. You would probably be gobsmacked by his machine like playing- he's known as the human sequencer.

krd

madtheory wrote: »

An arpeggiator for the drums? You mean sequencer, right?

No. I meant arpeggiator. And most hardware sequencers have arpeggiators.

Many people, in the nightmare world of pencil everything in on the laptop, have forgotten these things exist. The arpeggiator gives a choice of different arps, and it's easy to play in real time as it's tempo is set. You can do interesting things with drummachines, samplers etc.

Some people can actually play that way. Want proof? Here he is doing it live. Blink and you'll miss it:

On the little clip of 'Reach a Bit Further', you can see Tom Fleming is playing the arpeggitor on a little hardware sqeuncer - I can't see what it is. But that's what he's doing.

If that's what he's really doing. It's not this stuff is impossible to play live. If he had a full keyboard in front of him and he was playing an arpeggio then he could play the same things. But he wasn't he was pressing buttons on a little sequencer with an arp set on it.

The drums sound programmed too. Live drummers do just not play hits that are identical from bar to bar.

I watched the rest of the next track, And the bass sounds like a sequenced arp bass. I watched him play it.

I would say nearly the entire performance was from the Marcel Marceau school of music.

Incidentally, Jean Michel Jarre has a guy called Francis Rimbert in his band for years. You would probably be gobsmacked by his machine like playing- he's known as the human sequencer.

I bet a large part of Jean Michel Jarre's sets were never live. For the simple reason it would just too hard to do that music live. The synths he was using in the 70s and 80s, did not have programmable memories. To get individual sounds would take a lot of tweaking. And the musicians may be reliable but those synths definitely are not - they can be unpredictable and easily go out of tune. And if they were sequenced they were using CV not Midi - which would not be reliable enough for live performances.

When it comes to the live performance of a lot of electronics heavy bands, they have to use backing tracks.


Jean Michel Jarre shows, were shows.

madtheory

krd wrote: »

Many people, in the nightmare world of pencil everything in on the laptop, have forgotten these things exist.

You're chatting with a long time user of the Oberheim Cyclone, and lately also Strummer and Drummer.

krd wrote: »

On the little clip of 'Reach a Bit Further', you can see Tom Fleming is playing the arpeggitor on a little hardware sqeuncer - I can't see what it is. But that's what he's doing.

Ya but that's the end of the last song, not the song under discussion. Drummer has a Roland SPD, that's it.

krd wrote: »

I would say nearly the entire performance was from the Marcel Marceau school of music.

Check out a few other live performances. You'll hear instrument tone changes because of engineer/ room etc. which proves they're all live performances. The musicianship remains at the high standard you hear on the record.

krd wrote: »

I bet a large part of Jean Michel Jarre's sets were never live.

Careful, you're chatting with an obsessive Jarre fan . Yes, most of what you'll see on video is mimed. But I've heard bootlegs from China 1981 and Houston 1987 which are definitely live, and they're great. The China concerts album has tons of overdubs, but there is some very good playing on there too.

The recent tours were also entirely live, loads of youtube vids of these, warts and all- including the Memorymoog going completely out of tune at several shows (something similar happened at Houston actually), to the point where Dominique Perrier has to take over on the Eminent. Watching those videos, you will be amazed by the musicianship. I've witnessed Rimbert perform in real life, it's amazing to hear the human sequencer in action on the Elka Synthex.

woodsdenis

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmAOLsMFRJo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This is definitely live !!!!! :eek:

shayleon

madtheory wrote: »

Anyone else rate this band?

Love their colour of spring. Have to admit don't know much else.

madtheory

shayleon wrote: »

Love their colour of spring. Have to admit don't know much else.

I think all the Talk Talk albums from Colour of Spring onwards are essential listening for musicians of any ilk.

krd

woodsdenis wrote: »

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmAOLsMFRJo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This is definitely live !!!!! :eek:

This is precisely why so many electronic musicians use backing tracks.

madtheory

The good ones don't- Squarepusher, Orbital, Chemical Brothers, Jarre, Kraftwerk etc. Neither do Wild Beasts.

So what's your point, "precisely"?

woodsdenis

krd wrote: »

This is precisely why so many electronic musicians use backing tracks.

Well I admire him for trying. I think that technology is a lot more reliable these days anyway. The advantage of being able to actually play is well demonstrated here by the other keyboard player, who plays the lead while Mr Jarre tries to rectify the situation.

krd

woodsdenis wrote: »

Well I admire him for trying. I think that technology is a lot more reliable these days anyway.

He's being more of a daredevil than people imagine. It's just the nature of the analog circuits. They really do have a mind of their own.

Technology is a lot more reliable these days. There's still quirky stuff that can go wrong with it. A little power spike might be all it would take to reset keyboard, or a live drum machine or sampler. Something like a guitar generally does not fail like that - or it can recover really quickly.

The advantage of being able to actually play is well demonstrated here by the other keyboard player, who plays the lead while Mr Jarre tries to rectify the situation.

His wing man. That's why the guy is there.

Being able to play is really important for creating music. Pencilling in stuff on a DAW, doesn't lead to great things in general. On some new music I'm hearing these awful percussion patterns - it's someone going mad with the pencil on a DAW. Making convoluted patterns on a DAW drum machine is not a sign of ground breaking musicianship - it's the sign of not having a clue what you're doing.

madtheory

Krd I would have agreed with you before I learned that Luke Vibert claims he does almost all of his stuff with the mouse- and it's very musical.

studiorat

Not mad about it myself. Sounds like a tea spoon on tinfoil to me. The recording is quite transparent I like that detail, but just don't like the timbres.

I'd say it's live drumming, kick and snare anyway. It does seem to move about a little to my ear. 0'07", 0'23" and 1'33" to 1'38" there tiny rushes in the groove that say to me, "people here!!!"

Actually the more I listen to them the more I hate them... ****en hipsters!!

madtheory

Ya the falsetto can be wearing...

krd

studiorat wrote: »

Not mad about it myself. Sounds like a tea spoon on tinfoil to me.

Which sounds precisely like a drum machine snare.

I'd say it's live drumming, kick and snare anyway.

That's what I was thinking too - I was also thinking is it possible in such a small space to get away with miming drums. I know a lot bands when they play on TV, the only thing live might be the singing. But how do you stop the real drums bleeding into the mic - or the studio audience getting a feeling something fishy is going on.

It does seem to move about a little to my ear. 0'07", 0'23" and 1'33" to 1'38" there tiny rushes in the groove that say to me, "people here!!!"

It's called shuffle. ...........I haven't been able to face my DAW in months...but playing around with my trusty MC505 (not trusty enough I'd ever dare play it live anywhere), Just playing around with putting arpeggios through the drum machine - there's always a little drift. So, a loop that might be oppressively repetitive on a DAW sounds slowly evolving on the MC. The thing about older arps and drum machines, there wasn't an infinite number of clicks/midi time divisions - so these boxes tend to drop the odd click like "aw fuucket who's going to notice. "

The other thing is though - these things are an absolute pain in the arse. Totally unpredictable. And when you switch them off, and turn them back on, you will not be able to get whatever that sound you have before was.

The recording is quite transparent I like that detail, but just don't like the timbres.

Actually the more I listen to them the more I hate them... ****en hipsters!!

Yeah I think they suck too........Just for being hipsters. I hate hipsters. I hate them and I hate their music.

madtheory

The hatred is fine, but it's clouding your judgement re: live/ mimed.

studiorat

krd wrote: »

That's what I was thinking too - I was also thinking is it possible in such a small space to get away with miming drums. I know a lot bands when they play on TV, the only thing live might be the singing. But how do you stop the real drums bleeding into the mic - or the studio audience getting a feeling something fishy is going on.

.

I was talking about the 1st track which I presume is the album not the one from Dingle. Can't listen now but I thought the drums sounded different between the two.

krd

studiorat wrote: »

I was talking about the 1st track which I presume is the album not the one from Dingle. Can't listen now but I thought the drums sounded different between the two.

Probably true. But do you know what's worse than creating sterile unexciting music. It's performing the same sterile and unexciting music note for note as you recorded it (Or DAW'd it)

madtheory

That is a contradictory statement. That's the way the play, it's not a DAW creation. So of course they'll do the same live, and that in itself proves that they can do it live. You just don't like it (which is fine)- but at least now you accept that it's a live performance.

If you're not polarising opinion with your music, then it's not good enough.