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Neighbours extension on boundary wall/line

  • 03-06-2012 9:23am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 27 brianios


    Hi folks,

    Hoping someone can help us with this one..

    We are currently looking at getting an extension to the rear of our house. One story ~25sqm. However, as we noticed some time back, our neighbours, who have been here since before we bought our house, have an extension at the rear of their house that's external wall is clearly built on/over the boundary line. The dividing wall that runs up the garden runs directly into their extension wall. Also their drainage, fascia etc are clearly on our property as well as the wall being either fully or partly on our property.

    Where do we stand on this? Our builder says ye can tie our wall into theirs and actually use it as is. But would need permission from the neighbour. However if they declined we would lose 2-3ft as we would need to build a new wall..

    Can we kick up about this at all? The extension might have been built at time of house construction - would this make a difference?

    Really just looking for some comment/opinion/direction..

    Thank you,
    Brian

    (can post photos if required)


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭ martinn123


    brianios wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    Hoping someone can help us with this one..

    We are currently looking at getting an extension to the rear of our house. One story ~25sqm. However, as we noticed some time back, our neighbours, who have been here since before we bought our house, have an extension at the rear of their house that's external wall is clearly built on/over the boundary line. The dividing wall that runs up the garden runs directly into their extension wall. Also their drainage, fascia etc are clearly on our property as well as the wall being either fully or partly on our property.

    Where do we stand on this? Our builder says ye can tie our wall into theirs and actually use it as is. But would need permission from the neighbour. However if they declined we would lose 2-3ft as we would need to build a new wall..

    Can we kick up about this at all? The extension might have been built at time of house construction - would this make a difference?

    Really just looking for some comment/opinion/direction..

    Thank you,
    Brian

    (can post photos if required)

    I assume from the above quote, that the extention was there when you bought your home.
    Did it not feature at the time in say any Survey's you may have done on the property, prior to purchase.is it mentioned by your Solicitor at the time of purchase.
    Boundary lines are difficult to be acurate on, you would need the site map's rather than just relying on where the wall is.
    If it's there some time you may just have to reach a comprimise with neighbour that you build onto their wall, otherwise if it's as you describe major headache,


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BryanF


    That's pretty much it Brian, If the structure is there more than 7 years ,the neighbours can choose to be difficult.

    Speak to your neighbours, apart from the guttering and space loss, ideally you need to find out was a decent foundation placed under the boundary wall before their extension was built. If not , loosing the 2/3ft might not be a bad thing..

    Also consider seeking a section 5 exemption from your local authority, getting an engineer to check boundary & structure, and an arch/ tech to prepare layout & detailed drawings/spec.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 brianios


    BryanF wrote: »
    That's pretty much it Brian, If the structure is there more than 7 years ,the neighbours can choose to be difficult.

    Speak to your neighbours, apart from the guttering and space loss, ideally you need to find out was a decent foundation placed under the boundary wall before their extension was built. If not , loosing the 2/3ft might not be a bad thing..

    Also consider seeking a section 5 exemption from your local authority, getting an engineer to check boundary & structure, and an arch/ tech to prepare layout & detailed drawings/spec.

    Thanks to you both for your replies. Haven't spoken to them just yet so they may well be fine but just wanted to get an idea of where we might stand.

    Good point about the depth of the foundation too. I don't know what a section 5 exemption is by the way? Can you tell me please?

    Again - thanks to you both
    Brian


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BryanF


    Presuming your proposed extension is exemept. for a few quid and basic drawings, the local authority will confirm this in writing-it takes a max of six weeks
    As buying and selling property tightens up, an exemption cert and of course building reg cert is advisable

    There is also a newish bit of legalisation regarding building against another owners habitable property. (I don't have it to hand right now) but these are the things worth checking with a professional other than a builer, prior to works beginning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭✭ dinglebay


    The legislation to check is the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009, which gives landowners new statutory rights in dealing with party walls or any type of structure on or at a boundary. Talk to a professional - it's worth the money.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭ martinn123


    dinglebay wrote: »
    The legislation to check is the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009, which gives landowners new statutory rights in dealing with party walls or any type of structure on or at a boundary. Talk to a professional - it's worth the money.

    Anyone got a link, thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭✭ dinglebay


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/act/pub/0027/index.html

    you may also want to look at the S.I.'s


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BryanF


    hi , it may not be applicable. the reason for my comments above were from experience of dealing with neighbours on these sort of extensions. if you go along with a clear set of drawings and the planning authority on-side your neighbours are inclined to trust your project/ extension will be done properly and they'll be less likely to cause a scene
    Column 1Description of Development
    Column 2Conditions and Limitations
    CLASS 50(a) The demolition of a building, or buildings, within the curtilage of— (i) a house, (ii) an industrial building, (iii) a business premises, or (iv) a farmyard complex.(b) The demolition of part of a habitable house in connection with the provision of an extension or porch in accordance with Class 1 or 7, respectively, of this Part of this Schedule or in accordance with a permission for an extension or porch under the Act.
    1. No such building or buildings shall abut on another building in separate ownership.2.The cumulative floor area of any such building, or buildings, shall not exceed: (a) in the case of a building, or buildings within the curtilage of a house, 40 square metres, and (b) in all other cases, 100 square metres.3. No such demolition shall be carried out to facilitate development of any class prescribed for the purposes of section 176 of the Act.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/si/0235.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭ martinn123


    BryanF wrote: »
    hi , it may not be applicable. the reason for my comments above were from experience of dealing with neighbours on these sort of extensions. if you go along with a clear set of drawings and the planning authority on-side your neighbours are inclined to trust your project/ extension will be done properly and they'll be less likely to cause a scene


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/si/0235.html

    BryanF, that quote you posted is about demolition, or am I reading it wrong.
    The OP is questioning an extention, not a demolition.

    Any connection.

    thanks


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BryanF


    yep your right, but the grey area is where you have to go digging to check foundations are adequate and ultimately decide if any structural works are required to strengthen the party wall or loose the 2/3 ft + you've got to interfere with the neighbours eaves/flashing/gutter and roofing to tie in

    i appreciate, ive given an extreme response as i hadn't the abstract to hand when i was writing the original comment and i'm now trying to dig my way out:D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭ martinn123


    BryanF wrote: »
    yep your right, but the grey area is where you have to go digging to check foundations are adequate and ultimately decide if any structural works are required to strengthen the party wall or loose the 2/3 ft + you've got to interfere with the neighbours eaves/flashing/gutter and roofing to tie in

    i appreciate, ive given an extreme response as i hadn't the abstract to hand when i was writing the original comment and i'm now trying to dig my way out:D

    Thanks for that, and hope you get out of the hole soon.
    My reason for questioning the posts, is that while I agree entirely with advice to consult a professional, I am weary of quotes like.
    but these are the things worth checking with a professional a other than builder, prior to works beginning.

    it suggests we know little,

    and I am particularly interested in more information on,
    dinglebay wrote:
    The legislation to check is the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009, which gives landowners new statutory rights in dealing with party walls or any type of structure on or at a boundary. Talk to a professional - it's worth the money. 03-06-2012 23:35
    The legislation to check is the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009, which gives landowners new statutory rights in dealing with party walls or any type of structure on or at a boundary. Talk to a professional - it's worth the money

    I may be wrong, but that just muddies the waters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭ jblack


    brianios wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    our neighbours, who have been here since before we bought our house, have an extension at the rear of their house that's external wall is clearly built on/over the boundary line. The dividing wall that runs up the garden runs directly into their extension wall. Also their drainage, fascia etc are clearly on our property as well as the wall being either fully or partly on our property.

    Where do we stand on this? Our builder says ye can tie our wall into theirs and actually use it as is. But would need permission from the neighbour. However if they declined we would lose 2-3ft as we would need to build a new wall..

    Can we kick up about this at all? The extension might have been built at time of house construction - would this make a difference?

    Really just looking for some comment/opinion/direction..

    Thank you,
    Brian

    (can post photos if required)

    I don't see the relevance of the extension being there 7 years if it is clearly over the boundary line, provided it has (as a rough rule as there are other criteria) not been there longer than 12 and capable of adverse possession.

    If you were able to establish the age of their extension this would be helpful. A proper opinion on the boundary line may be useful as a bargaining tool and hopefully wouldn't cause irreparable damage to relations with your neighbours.

    The nuclear option that may be available would be an Order compelling your neighbour to remove any part of their building on your property - I'm sure you would probably not even contemplate this but if his extension is approaching 12 years you should possibly contemplate proper legal advice as you may lose any rights of action if the period expires.

    It's a complex area, there have been threads on this in the legal discussion forum and there is a lot of very dangerous advice floating around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭✭ libertyhead


    Your neighbour couldn't have planning for this ,check with council planning ,you will have to keep pushing the issue to get results


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭✭ second74


    If part of your neighbours boundry wall is on my land, would this make it harder to sell, it's there since I bought the property


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    second74 wrote: »
    If part of your neighbours boundry wall is on my land, would this make it harder to sell, it's there since I bought the property

    If it’s on your land then it’s not a boundary wall. It’s a wall on your land.


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