Looking for some advice re copyright

DUBintheSTICKS

From a quick scan of the topic it seems like a total minefield but was hoping someone might point me in the right direction.

My issue is as follows on Sunday last I was travelling home from Galway and came across an accident on the M6 involving a rib. I took a picture (picture 1) and sent it to thejournal.ie as they had the story but no picture (picture 2).

Then to my amazement I opened the the Sun on Monday to see my picture being used in the paper (picture 3). They stated "our photograph, submitted by a reader"

So my issue is the Sun using my picture that I did not send to them. I'm just wondering where do I stand in relation to the copyright or if I do? I have since been contacted by a cousin from England who saw it in the Daily Mail over there.

Would the Sun etc have to pay me to use the picture or what?

Paulw

Send them an invoice, give date of publication and page the image was printed on.

They may follow up with you, and as long as you can show it is your image, they should pay up, eventually.

Green Mile

I'd be very interested to see the outcome so please keep us posted.

Personally, I feel they should pay you for that image.

Not sure if u can do up an invoice without a company registration number but maybe you can with a pps number! That's another question for another thread.

Paulw

Green Mile wrote: »

Not sure if u can do up an invoice without a company registration number but maybe you can with a pps number! That's another question for another thread.

Of course you can send them an invoice. No need for company registration, nor providing your PPS number.

Just give as much detail as you can - name, address, phone, email, etc.

You also just need to remember to declare your earnings to the Revenue too.

Kenny Logins

A reader may have sent it in to them... just not you.

DUBintheSTICKS

Kenny Logins wrote: »

A reader may have sent it in to them... just not you.

But irregardless if they did is it still not my property?

DUBintheSTICKS

Paulw wrote: »

Green Mile wrote: »

Not sure if u can do up an invoice without a company registration number but maybe you can with a pps number! That's another question for another thread.

Of course you can send them an invoice. No need for company registration, nor providing your PPS number.

Just give as much detail as you can - name, address, phone, email, etc.

You also just need to remember to declare your earnings to the Revenue too.

I might just do that but I haven't a clue how much I should invoice them for.

mdebets

Before you sent an invoice to the Sun, you need to find out first, what licence you granted to TheJournal.ie, when you sent them the photo.
Does it say in their T&C, that they can use the photo however they see fit, or is it only for the use on their website?
If you gave them rights, to pass it on, you still need to find out, if they actually did, or if some one cut and paste it from TheJournal.ie and just sent it to the Sun.
Only then, you can sent your invoice to the Sun, if indeed they have gotten it illegally.

Kenny Logins

DUBintheSTICKS wrote: »

But irregardless if they did is it still not my property?

Yes. ...I'm just trying to predict their response. Good luck.

DUBintheSTICKS

mdebets wrote: »

Before you sent an invoice to the Sun, you need to find out first, what licence you granted to TheJournal.ie, when you sent them the photo.
Does it say in their T&C, that they can use the photo however they see fit, or is it only for the use on their website?
If you gave them rights, to pass it on, you still need to find out, if they actually did, or if some one cut and paste it from TheJournal.ie and just sent it to the Sun.
Only then, you can sent your invoice to the Sun, if indeed they have gotten it illegally.

I did some digging and this is what is on thejournal.ie website

By posting any material on TheJournal.ie, you grant us a licence to use, modify, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce, and distribute such material. The licence you grant to us is non-exclusive, royalty free and fully paid, sub-licensable, and worldwide. You also waive to the fullest extent permissible by law any moral rights in such material. You are responsible for making sure that you have all rights to what you post, including the rights necessary for you to grant the licence above.

And this

6. Copyright Policy

We respect the copyright of others
We strive to credit sources where relevant
We do not provide links to websites which object
Our policy is to respect the copyright of others and we strive to credit sources where relevant.  While copyright does not subsist in ideas and in principle there is no copyright in the “news”, copyright may subsist in the form in which it is expressed in particular articles. If you believe that any material published in this website infringes copyright, please report it to errors@thejournal.ie identifying the specific material that is claimed to be infringing and providing sufficient information to permit us to contact the complaining party.

So if they sent the picture to The Sun its cosher.

Only thing left to do is check with the journalist I sent the email to originally.

I did just cope I didn't post it on the site as a comment rather sent it as a direct mail to the journalist and they also credit the picture to me so that might change the game a little.

PCPhoto

there are a couple of different scenarios on how they came across the image.

1. someone from the journal may have sent it to them
2. the journal might actually be a dummy company (ie. a place where the newspaper can source information/stories without the stigma of murdoch/the sun/notw etc)
3. someone may have robbed it from the journal website and sent it to the sun
4. a staff member of the sun may have lifted the image from the journal website.

it could be that (as mentioned above) that part of the terms/conditions of sending an image to the journal could be that you give them the right to re-distribute the image (ie. they make money off your image which you submitted to them for free)

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I offer a free distribution service to send images to the newspapers, I have done so for a fair few boardsies and the best part of it is... its the boardsie that makes the money (not me) .... I normally try to get as much detail from the photographer so that the image is completely captioned and if the images get printed I tell the person who and how to invoice the paper.

Also just for your information the sun pay space rate ...so it all depends on how big/small they used the image....give them a buzz, say you had an image printed and wanted to sort out invoice details for them to send out payment.

the legal side of it (printing without permission) - would be difficult to prove which scenario above actually happened !!

DUBintheSTICKS

PCPhoto wrote: »

there are a couple of different scenarios on how they came across the image.

1. someone from the journal may have sent it to them
2. the journal might actually be a dummy company (ie. a place where the newspaper can source information/stories without the stigma of murdoch/the sun/notw etc)
3. someone may have robbed it from the journal website and sent it to the sun
4. a staff member of the sun may have lifted the image from the journal website.

it could be that (as mentioned above) that part of the terms/conditions of sending an image to the journal could be that you give them the right to re-distribute the image (ie. they make money off your image which you submitted to them for free)

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I offer a free distribution service to send images to the newspapers, I have done so for a fair few boardsies and the best part of it is... its the boardsie that makes the money (not me) .... I normally try to get as much detail from the photographer so that the image is completely captioned and if the images get printed I tell the person who and how to invoice the paper.

Also just for your information the sun pay space rate ...so it all depends on how big/small they used the image....give them a buzz, say you had an image printed and wanted to sort out invoice details for them to send out payment.

the legal side of it (printing without permission) - would be difficult to prove which scenario above actually happened !!

This is a one of picture with me, hell it was only taken on my iPhone. I'm going to contact thejournal first and see what they say and then depending on the reply contact the Sun. In regards to the legal aspect I'm sure the Sun will have details of how they sourced the picture ie was it scenario 1, 2, 3 or 4 as you highlighted.

PCPhoto

DUBintheSTICKS wrote: »

This is a one of picture with me, hell it was only taken on my iPhone. I'm going to contact thejournal first and see what they say and then depending on the reply contact the Sun. In regards to the legal aspect I'm sure the Sun will have details of how they sourced the picture ie was it scenario 1, 2, 3 or 4 as you highlighted.

photojournalism is about being in right place at right time ..... so as far as I'm concerned if a professional cant make it and a member of the public can .... why cant the member of the public make some money !