Gaelic baby names in the North.......

martinedwards

is it worth the hassle?

I'm a prod.

went to a state British school and so never learned Irish.

I have friends, work collegues, and even some relatives with gaelic spelled names.

the common ones like Sean and Siobhan are ok, but a pal of mine I haven't seen in a while has a new baby daughter and her name is something that is probably gorgeous but I have no clue how to say it because I've only seen it on facebook.

I'm a teacher, and while the vast majority of my pupils have anglicised names there are still a few in the system with full gaelic names.

I can see the point of maintaining your culture and all that good stuff, but when it will label your child as clearly as a tattoo on thier forehead as one side or the other. and although our society here has moved on SOOOOOOO Much, there are still areas where someone called Billy or Sean, Podric, Charles or Sinead, is going to be in bother as soon as they appear, let alone open thier mouths.

I'm inteligent enough to be open minded and i KNOW that not everyone with a particular name is a paramilitary or a under cover SAS man.

but sadly there are many idiots who aren't

Deedsie

martinedwards wrote: »

is it worth the hassle?

I'm a prod.

went to a state British school and so never learned Irish.

I have friends, work collegues, and even some relatives with gaelic spelled names.

the common ones like Sean and Siobhan are ok, but a pal of mine I haven't seen in a while has a new baby daughter and her name is something that is probably gorgeous but I have no clue how to say it because I've only seen it on facebook.

I'm a teacher, and while the vast majority of my pupils have anglicised names there are still a few in the system with full gaelic names.

I can see the point of maintaining your culture and all that good stuff, but when it will label your child as clearly as a tattoo on thier forehead as one side or the other. and although our society here has moved on SOOOOOOO Much, there are still areas where someone called Billy or Sean, Podric, Charles or Sinead, is going to be in bother as soon as they appear, let alone open thier mouths.

I'm inteligent enough to be open minded and i KNOW that not everyone with a particular name is a paramilitary or a under cover SAS man.

but sadly there are many idiots who aren't

Name your child whatever you want... I certainly wouldnt allow bigots dictate my childs name... That goes for both sides Seán or Ian who cares...

Just don't call the poor thing Beyonce or Kanye... If the name has a fada though use it!

Seán, Éamonn, Mairéad, Siobhán, Aibhín... Etc

That's a personal pet peeve...

martinedwards

the bigots are only one side of the issue.

do you want you child to go through life with half the time they come up against a regestration, or a job interview, the prod... (or English person, or American, or Arab or basically anyone other than either an Irish citizen or a Northern Ireland Catholic) on the other side of the desk asking them what thier name is even though it's written down?

Crooked Jack

Yeah you're right, everybody should have a yankee-saxon name. And speak english. In a non-regional accent no less. We should introduce global uniforms as well. Everybody around the world should conform to your culture so that you dont feel stupid when you cant pronounce a name.

ActingDanClark

"inteligent...regestration"

.....hope you're not an english teacher !

NiallFH

What hassle?

I'm called Niall, Brother called Aodhán another called Caolán and a sister called Erín (and others but I'm not listing anymore lol) and I nor any of them have ever had any hassle over our names.

I probably have the least Gaelic name of us all and I would say I get more hassle with people asking how to pronounce my name, most going with 'nile' or 'neil', both incorrect.

Your living on the island of Ireland, Gaelic names are common and most people can pronounce them and if not in an interview for example it can be a nice icebreaker.

You say your open minded but you don't sound it at all

Rented Mule

OK .....several alarms went off in this post. I'm just going to paraphrase what I took from this post.

I'm not racist but ....

I have plenty of *insert ethnic group here* friends.......

Why can't everyone just be like us ?

martinedwards

NiallFH wrote: »

You say your open minded but you don't sound it at all

I Am, really!!

I'm far more annoyed about people inventing daft spellings for names....

such as a friend of mine teaches a kid whose name is pronounced Ladasha.

that's cute, I can go with that.

how is it spelled?

La-a

SERIOUSLY!!!!!!

Deedsie

martinedwards wrote: »

I Am, really!!

I'm far more annoyed about people inventing daft spellings for names....

such as a friend of mine teaches a kid whose name is pronounced Ladasha.

that's cute, I can go with that.

how is it spelled?

La-a

SERIOUSLY!!!!!!

Ok, are you actually advocating families no longer using Irish names? Does it bother you when someones name isnt familiar to you?

It's a big world buddy, variety is the spice of life! If I ever decide to have a kid I know I'll want to give it an Irish name. It's no statement of political view, it's just the tradition handed down by their forebears...

But I like names from other cultures, can't imagine it would really suit and Irish girl to be named Jasmine or an Irish boy to be named Diego!

martinedwards

yeah I agree.

I'm not looking to start a row (too late!) and I'm not anti Irish...... My family are from Ramelton.... I'm not anti Catholic.... I'm involved in several cross community initiatives up here..... and yes I do have friends who are all religeons and none......

I just want to raise the awareness, as someone married to a lady with a very unusual forename (see? I'm so inclusive I don't even use the C word when referring to fierst names!!) that it can be a hassle for the rest of the kid's life to be given a name that is strikingly different.

I fully appreciate that in a community where the the vast majority of people are educated in Irish, then Irish names are normal, good and right.

I LIKE Irish names!!!

BUT

should that child grow up and emigrate to a country that is less Irish friendly than say... New York state...... then there will be issues.

in this day and age we can't assume that our children will grow up and keep living in the same street in the same community as our parents like happened 200 years ago.

people are much more mobile.....

no offence intended folks, honest......

Deedsie

martinedwards wrote: »

yeah I agree.

I'm not looking to start a row (too late!) and I'm not anti Irish...... My family are from Ramelton.... I'm not anti Catholic.... I'm involved in several cross community initiatives up here..... and yes I do have friends who are all religeons and none......

I just want to raise the awareness, as someone married to a lady with a very unusual forename (see? I'm so inclusive I don't even use the C word when referring to fierst names!!) that it can be a hassle for the rest of the kid's life to be given a name that is strikingly different.

I fully appreciate that in a community where the the vast majority of people are educated in Irish, then Irish names are normal, good and right.

I LIKE Irish names!!!

BUT

should that child grow up and emigrate to a country that is less Irish friendly than say... New York state...... then there will be issues.

in this day and age we can't assume that our children will grow up and keep living in the same street in the same community as our parents like happened 200 years ago.

people are much more mobile.....

no offence intended folks, honest......

It might not be your intention... But you are whatever way you look at it advocating the unnecessarily removal of Irish names. 40,000,000 Americans are of Irish descent. I have American born and raised cousins named Erin and Séamus.

There would be no problem having Irish names anywhere within the anglosphere. Fair enough, English people struggle with Donnacha and Tomás but what harm is in that really. It's their mistake, if anyone should be embarrassed it's them.

To even think this is suspicious behaviour to be honest... Should Muslims stop calling their kids Muhammad just do the can go on a J1 in the states without having a barely annoying interaction with someone not familiar with their name?

I'm leaving this thread now as I am a bit annoyed that anyone could think in this mono-cultural way!

martinedwards

Deedsie wrote: »

To even think this is suspicious behaviour to be honest... Should Muslims stop calling their kids Muhammad just do the can go on a J1 in the states without having a barely annoying interaction with someone not familiar with their name?

Interesting that you prove my point by writing the name phonetically in a language that someone who isn't an Arabic speaker can understand, and have a reasonable stab at pronouncing.

isn't this what you meant?

I'm leaving this thread now as I am a bit annoyed that anyone could think in this mono-cultural way!

I'm NOT monocultural. I'm well travelled and spent time in South America as well as Spain, France and the rest of the British Isles.

BTW when I'm in Spain and Paraguay I pronounce Martin with a Spanish accent... like guitarist Juan Martin.... in France I'm Martin with a French accent like the island St Martin in the Carribean.

Whats wrong with accepting that in a multicultural world, we can meet in the middle?

why am I being cast as the bigot here (and quoted as such in another thread on the board) when I ask an open question? I have family members with gaelic names. three of my siblings are married to Roman Catholics. I've been in GAA clubs and go to watch Ireland play rugby. I have not, nor shall I ever, join either the Hibernians or the Orange order and I'm the least nationalistic person you'd ever want to meet.

I'm proud of my Irish Heritage and of course being raised presbyterian I'm closer to the fenian uprising than 99% of RCs as, of course everyone knows, the vast majority of the fenians were Presbyterians and Methodists.

I have worked in outdoor pursuits camps in Sligo and i would quite happily live in a united Ireland, but for now, if y'all don't mind I'll wait till you get your finances sorted!

PART of me is sorry I asked!

(But only a small part!!):p

Bannasidhe

martinedwards wrote: »

Interesting that you prove my point by writing the name phonetically in a language that someone who isn't an Arabic speaker can understand, and have a reasonable stab at pronouncing.

isn't this what you meant?





I'm NOT monocultural. I'm well travelled and spent time in South America as well as Spain, France and the rest of the British Isles.

BTW when I'm in Spain and Paraguay I pronounce Martin with a Spanish accent... like guitarist Juan Martin.... in France I'm Martin with a French accent like the island St Martin in the Carribean.

Whats wrong with accepting that in a multicultural world, we can meet in the middle?

why am I being cast as the bigot here (and quoted as such in another thread on the board) when I ask an open question? I have family members with gaelic names. three of my siblings are married to Roman Catholics. I've been in GAA clubs and go to watch Ireland play rugby. I have not, nor shall I ever, join either the Hibernians or the Orange order and I'm the least nationalistic person you'd ever want to meet.

I'm proud of my Irish Heritage and of course being raised presbyterian I'm closer to the fenian uprising than 99% of RCs as, of course everyone knows, the vast majority of the fenians were Presbyterians and Methodists.

I have worked in outdoor pursuits camps in Sligo and i would quite happily live in a united Ireland, but for now, if y'all don't mind I'll wait till you get your finances sorted!

PART of me is sorry I asked!

(But only a small part!!):p

Are there not non-Gaelic names that would just as easily identify someone's background? - Mary, Marie, Patrick are likely to be 'Catholic' - my mate Hiram from Belfast was amazed when I asked him if his family were Freemasons (his grandfather - also Hiram - was) the clue was in his name.

I don't think you are trying to be offensive btw but I do think that you are inadvertently advocating a policy of Anglicisation in NI in order to make names more acceptable/palatable to one section of society while ignoring, for example, the use of Scots-Gaelic names. Another mate of mine - a WRAC named Fidhle Eachanna Mhairi from Birmingham being a prime example.

Why shouldn't people have names that reflect their ethnicity?

martinedwards

you can, but just expect everyone you ever meet to ask you how to pronounce it.

you mate from Birmingham has a lovely name.

what does it sound like?

the Mhairi is scots Gaelic for Mary, right? pronounced Vahry?

and don't start me on Ulster Scots!!

purely political make believe gibberish

Bannasidhe

martinedwards wrote: »

you can, but just expect everyone you ever meet to ask you how to pronounce it.

you mate from Birmingham has a lovely name.

what does it sound like?

the Mhairi is scots Gaelic for Mary, right? pronounced Vahry?

and don't start me on Ulster Scots!!

purely political make believe gibberish

Mhairi would be Scots-Gaelic of which Ulster Scots is a derivative. Scots-Gaelic in turn is a variation of Irish - Gaelic. It's hardly a new politically motivated thing as it has it's origins in the 5th century Kingdom of the Dál Riada.

If people can learn to pronounce Navratilova, Didier Drogba, Ruan Pienaar, Isa Nacewa not to mention 'British' surnames such as Llewellyn (Welsh), Farquhar (Scots) and Cholmondeley (English - pronounced Chum-ley) I don't see why names like Domhnaill O'Flaithbhertaigh - Donal O'Flaherty -should be beyond them.

Fidhle is pronounced 'Fil' - the 'dh' being nearly silent. It's quite easy once one learns how letters and combination of letters are pronounced in a particular language. Like learning that a capital 'C' in French is soft but it's hard in Italian e.g: in French Central(e) sounds like sent-ral but in Italian is more like Chen-tralé.

In English there are pronouncations that make no 'sense' - Derby is pronounced darby and in Thames the 'h' is silent and it sounds like 'Temes'.

TBH it seem to me that what you are advocating is that Enrique Iglesias should have called himself Henry Church as non-Spanish speaking people may have difficulty pronouncing his name.

martinedwards

no just SPELL it in a way that can be deciphered.

FAR more English speaking people world wide know that Drogba's first name is pronouncied dideeay than know the rules of Irish pronounciation.

Ulster scots is NOT a derivitive of anything other than a Loyalist politician being annoyed that Gaelic speakers were getting money to promote thier language. "Aha" he thinks, "if I come up with a new language then my protestant friends can get some of this money all the Nationalists are getting" I love the story of the "Ulster Scots" street signs being ripped down in loyalist areas because the locals thought that they were in Irish......

can a non Irish speaker understand Irish? no

can a non Welsh speaker understand Welsh? no

can a non Uslter scots speaker understand it? EASILY!!!!

for instance, "children with special educational needs" is "wee dafties" in Ulster scots. THAT IS NOT A SEPERATE LANGUAGE!!!!!! its just an extra layer of Ballymena accent!

as a Co Down person, with parents from Donegal, I recently read a novel written in Ulster Scots and I understood it perfectly.

come the revolution and I am made supreme ruler then all langualges other than English will be encouraged, BUT AT YOUR OWN COST.

If you are Asian and move here, then you are welcome, but learn the language of the land.

If you are Chinese, French, Polish, Chilean or anything else, see above.

when I was in Paraguay a while back I learned some Spanish before I went because I didn't expect everyonethere to learn English for me.

there is NO-ONE in northern Ireland who speaks Irish or Ulster scots and not English to a higher standard, and yet the government waste a fortune every year translating thousands of documents that no-one will never read anyway into these languages.

My wife has a collegue who spent two years out of teaching on secondment in a team writing a school syllabus in Ulster Scots that has never been used and never will. how much did that cost? well over £150,000.... and for what?

as a tax payer in these times of austerity this makes me SEETHE...

there are kids needing life saving operations being put back, roads with potholes you could loose a bus down and police officers being laid off because there is no money to pay them.

but at least there is a stack of 10,000 leaflets on how to recycle plastic bottlers in Gaelic and ulster scots.

that makes it aaaaaaaalll ooooooo kaaaaaaaayyyyyy

martinedwards

martinedwards wrote: »

no just SPELL it in a way that can be deciphered.

FAR more English speaking people world wide know that Drogba's first name is pronouncied dideeay than know the rules of Irish pronounciation.

Ulster scots is NOT a derivitive of anything other than a Loyalist politician being annoyed that Gaelic speakers were getting money to promote thier language. "Aha" he thinks, "if I come up with a new language then my protestant friends can get some of this money all the Nationalists are getting" I love the story of the "Ulster Scots" street signs being ripped down in loyalist areas because the locals thought that they were in Irish......

can a non Irish speaker understand Irish? no

can a non Welsh speaker understand Welsh? no

can a non Uslter scots speaker understand it? EASILY!!!!

for instance, "children with special educational needs" is "wee dafties" in Ulster scots. THAT IS NOT A SEPERATE LANGUAGE!!!!!! its just an extra layer of Ballymena accent!

as a Co Down person, with parents from Donegal, I recently read a novel written in Ulster Scots and I understood it perfectly.

come the revolution and I am made supreme ruler then all langualges other than English will be encouraged, BUT AT YOUR OWN COST.

If you are Asian and move here, then you are welcome, but learn the language of the land.

If you are Chinese, French, Polish, Chilean or anything else, see above.

when I was in Paraguay a while back I learned some Spanish before I went because I didn't expect everyonethere to learn English for me.

there is NO-ONE in northern Ireland who speaks Irish or Ulster scots and not English to a higher standard, and yet the government waste a fortune every year translating thousands of documents that no-one will never read anyway into these languages.

My wife has a collegue who spent two years out of teaching on secondment in a team writing a school syllabus in Ulster Scots that has never been used and never will. how much did that cost? well over £150,000.... and for what?

as a tax payer in these times of austerity this makes me SEETHE...

there are kids needing life saving operations being put back, roads with potholes you could loose a bus down and police officers being laid off because there is no money to pay them.

but at least there is a stack of 10,000 leaflets on how to recycle plastic bottlers in Gaelic and ulster scots.

that makes it aaaaaaaalll ooooooo kaaaaaaaayyyyyy

I dont speak Welsh and can pronounce Welsh names.

There arent that many Irish names that would be in use, probably under 30 for the main for both sexes. TBH its ignorance if people up north from both backgrounds cant pronounce them, its hardly rocket science.

NiallFH wrote: »

What hassle?

I'm called Niall, Brother called Aodhán another called Caolán and a sister called Erín (and others but I'm not listing anymore lol) and I nor any of them have ever had any hassle over our names.

I probably have the least Gaelic name of us all and I would say I get more hassle with people asking how to pronounce my name, most going with 'nile' or 'neil', both incorrect.

Your living on the island of Ireland, Gaelic names are common and most people can pronounce them and if not in an interview for example it can be a nice icebreaker.

You say your open minded but you don't sound it at all

What way do you pronounce your name?

Bannasidhe

martinedwards wrote: »

no just SPELL it in a way that can be deciphered.

FAR more English speaking people world wide know that Drogba's first name is pronouncied dideeay than know the rules of Irish pronounciation.

Ulster scots is NOT a derivitive of anything other than a Loyalist politician being annoyed that Gaelic speakers were getting money to promote thier language. "Aha" he thinks, "if I come up with a new language then my protestant friends can get some of this money all the Nationalists are getting" I love the story of the "Ulster Scots" street signs being ripped down in loyalist areas because the locals thought that they were in Irish......

can a non Irish speaker understand Irish? no

can a non Welsh speaker understand Welsh? no

can a non Uslter scots speaker understand it? EASILY!!!!

for instance, "children with special educational needs" is "wee dafties" in Ulster scots. THAT IS NOT A SEPERATE LANGUAGE!!!!!! its just an extra layer of Ballymena accent!

as a Co Down person, with parents from Donegal, I recently read a novel written in Ulster Scots and I understood it perfectly.

come the revolution and I am made supreme ruler then all langualges other than English will be encouraged, BUT AT YOUR OWN COST.

If you are Asian and move here, then you are welcome, but learn the language of the land.

If you are Chinese, French, Polish, Chilean or anything else, see above.

when I was in Paraguay a while back I learned some Spanish before I went because I didn't expect everyonethere to learn English for me.

there is NO-ONE in northern Ireland who speaks Irish or Ulster scots and not English to a higher standard, and yet the government waste a fortune every year translating thousands of documents that no-one will never read anyway into these languages.

My wife has a collegue who spent two years out of teaching on secondment in a team writing a school syllabus in Ulster Scots that has never been used and never will. how much did that cost? well over £150,000.... and for what?

as a tax payer in these times of austerity this makes me SEETHE...

there are kids needing life saving operations being put back, roads with potholes you could loose a bus down and police officers being laid off because there is no money to pay them.

but at least there is a stack of 10,000 leaflets on how to recycle plastic bottlers in Gaelic and ulster scots.

that makes it aaaaaaaalll ooooooo kaaaaaaaayyyyyy

I can see you are passionate but what you are talking about now is a dialect - every region has a dialect - go to South Shields or Govan or Hackney or Finglas or Knocknaheeny or Achill and you will find regional variations of English which are often impenetrable to an outsider. I am Cork born bred and reared but for the life of me I can't understand what some people also from Cork are saying as I do not know their particular dialect. I can understand a lot of what Geordies, Cockneys, Scousers and Jamaicans say because I learned it.

There are such things as Hiberno-English, Scots-English (we all sing a song in this dialect on new years eve), American-English, Australian-English, Jamaican Patois etc etc.

I fail to see what that has to do with giving a child a Gaelic name.

Gaelic names are spelt in a way that can be deciphered by people who have taken the time to learn how letters are pronounced in the language. In the same way as they learn to pronounce French/German/Italian/Russian/Spanish names.

It now seems that you are advocating that as some people cannot be bothered to learn how to pronounce non-English names correctly -specifically Irish names spelt according to the rules of the Irish language - we should simply stop using non-English names and all have English names.

Why should we? We are not English.

deise go deo

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Mhairi would be Scots-Gaelic of which Ulster Scots is a derivative.

No it's not, Ulster Scots is a derivative of Lallans, A Dialect of Middle English found in Lowland Scotland.

Basically its a Dialect of a Dialect of Middle English, It does not have a linguistic connection With Scots Gaelic.

Bannasidhe

deise go deo wrote: »

No it's not, Ulster Scots is a derivative of Lallans, A Dialect of Middle English found in Lowland Scotland.

Basically its a Dialect of a Dialect of Middle English, It does not have a linguistic connection With Scots Gaelic.

I stand corrected nonetheless my point remains that the fact that some people are not prepared to learn how letters are pronounced in Gaelic/Gaelige is no reason to not give children names in that language.

Pedant

What about names like Bartholomew, Nathaniel or Maximilian or Lysander? Bet you wouldn't have anything against those names. Thing is, it's good to have variety. Too many Johns, Josephs, Michaels and Marys about.