Landlord entering room uninvited (advice needed)

Smyth

I'm completely furious this morning

Bit of background:
Our properties previously owned by Shorview properties have been taken over by a company called Grant Thornton. Another company (Savills Commercial - Ireland) have been appointed by Grant Thornton to manage our property.

I don't know what the titles are for each.

Shorview Properties - used to own in.
Grant Thronton - own it now.
Savills Commercial - manage it for Grant Thornton.

So on the 24th of May we received a letter from Savills Commercial saying that they'd

be in contact shortly as we have been instructed to carry out inspections of all properties owned by Shorview Limited

Grand. So this kind of thing has happened in other properties before. Usually a phonecall or notification within a reasonable time of them coming is expected.

At 11am I hear a knock on my bedroom door. Thinking it's one of my flatmates I say "what?"

The guy from Savills responds...and uninvited proceeds to open the door and walk in. Now I'm lying there in my boxers not really sure of what just happened. If you want to enter someone's room you wait to be bloody invited.

I told him to get the hell out of my room and asked what the hell he was thinking. I''m fully aware that they need to take pictures, but for christ sake, wait until you're allowed in.

What would the scenario been if I had been naked? Or in a compromising position?

The fact that he responded to me means that he heard what I said. It wasn't an invite so he was taking liberties.

Not only that but he had the cheek to say that he had a right to do it too. I felt like clocking the smarmy git. He's lucky I didn't.

Where do I stand with this? I think it was completely out of order to enter my room like that. Do we not have laws that outline some sort of procedure?

cliffs:
- get letter from Savills Limited saying they'll be doing inspections
- show up 9 days after letter
- enter apartment
- enter room uninvited knowing that I was inside

I'm still fuming. It was a complete invasion of privacy.

Sesudra

Did you know he was in the apartment, or had he let himself in without announcing himself?

biko

I assume someone let him into the flat? Tbh, I don't see much wrong with this.
He was let into the premise and he knocked on the door. Perhaps your response sounded like "please enter" to him.
If he was not let in then yeah he should have been shouting "hello" a few times.

Imo, you're making something out of nothing.

the_syco

1) Did anyone let him into the house?
2) Did anyone know he was in the house, before you met him inn your room?

Graces7

They need lessons in Tenancy Law and in simple manners...

Smyth

Sesudra wrote: »

Did you know he was in the apartment, or had he let himself in without announcing himself?

the_syco wrote: »

1) Did anyone let him into the house?
2) Did anyone know he was in the house, before you met him inn your room?

To answer most of the above. No. Nobody let him in the apartment, and no I didn't know he was in the apartment until I heard him banging at my door.

I have the day off from work so I'm in the apartment on my own.

This was the weird part. Sure If I was up and knew he was about it wouldn't have been an issue.

Graces7 wrote: »

They need lessons in Tenancy Law and in simple manners...

Exactly. I'm just not sure of what they are.

Graces7

Smyth wrote: »

To answer most of the above. No. Nobody let him in the apartment, and no I didn't know he was in the apartment until I heard him banging at my door.

I have the day off from work so I'm in the apartment on my own.

This was the weird part. Sure If I was up and knew he was about it wouldn't have been an issue.



Exactly. I'm just not sure of what they are.

Go to the PTRB site and read the Tenancy Act. Basically no ll is allowed to enter YOUR home without prior arrangement that is convenient to both parties,or for essential repairs, again by arrangement. They are not allowed to enter when you are out.

Clear law.

We have had this issue time and again, and always made this very clear indeed. You have the absolute right to privacy.

Not sure what the law allows in a case where ownership has changed? Maybe call Threshold who are very experienced? They have an excellent web site too.

Smyth

Graces7 wrote: »

Go to the PTRB site and read the Tenancy Act. Basically no ll is allowed to enter YOUR home without prior arrangement that is convenient to both parties,or for essential repairs, again by arrangement. They are not allowed to enter when you are out.

Clear law.

We have had this issue time and again, and always made this very clear indeed. You have the absolute right to privacy.

Not sure what the law allows in a case where ownership has changed? Maybe call Threshold who are very experienced? They have an excellent web site too.

and this applies to anyone? I know it applies to Landlords. Where you're paying them directly, but I'm wondering about paying rent to a company who's managing it for another company etc etc

I told him that he needed permission to enter. He smirked and said "no we don't"

Graces7

Smyth wrote: »

and this applies to anyone? I know it applies to Landlords. Where you're paying them directly, but I'm wondering about paying rent to a company who's managing it for another company etc etc

I told him that he needed permission to enter. He smirked and said "no we don't"

Phone Threshold, please.

http://www.threshold.ie/

And read your lease papers?

But I cannot see them being exempt from tenancy law. Nasty man!

djimi

Smyth wrote: »

and this applies to anyone? I know it applies to Landlords. Where you're paying them directly, but I'm wondering about paying rent to a company who's managing it for another company etc etc

I told him that he needed permission to enter. He smirked and said "no we don't"

Do you and your flatmates rent the place (as in is all of your names on the lease), or do you just rent a room in the house? Does/did the landlord live there also?

If its your lease and he let himself into the apartment then he was trespassing, plain and simple. Get his name and company and report him to the Gardai.

Noone is allowed to let themselves into your home uninvited (unless its an extreme emergency such as a gas leak); this applies to the landlord, anyone who might be working with/for them, or just anyone in general. The fact that this prick seems to think that doesnt apply to him is shocking.

Graces7

djimi wrote: »

Do you and your flatmates rent the place (as in is all of your names on the lease), or do you just rent a room in the house? Does/did the landlord live there also?

If its your lease and he let himself into the apartment then he was trespassing, plain and simple. Get his name and company and report him to the Gardai.

Noone is allowed to let themselves into your home uninvited (unless its an extreme emergency such as a gas leak); this applies to the landlord, anyone who might be working with/for them, or just anyone in general. The fact that this prick seems to think that doesnt apply to him is shocking.

It is ignorance at the root of it. With our present LL he thought that as he owned the house he and his family could come in at any time. He really thought that.

We came home once to find the dogs in different rooms than they had been left in. Raised hell.

Now he knows he cannot do that .

And things are better all round.

Smyth

djimi wrote: »

Do you and your flatmates rent the place (as in is all of your names on the lease), or do you just rent a room in the house? Does/did the landlord live there also?

If its your lease and he let himself into the apartment then he was trespassing, plain and simple. Get his name and company and report him to the Gardai.

Noone is allowed to let themselves into your home uninvited (unless its an extreme emergency such as a gas leak); this applies to the landlord, anyone who might be working with/for them, or just anyone in general. The fact that this prick seems to think that doesnt apply to him is shocking.

Yeah, there's 3 of us in the apartment. 12 month lease. No landlord.

Looking at the lease now. Seems there's an extension of right from the landlord to another authorized party to act on behalf of the landlord, but as far as I can see they can only enter

1) in emergency
2) at a time and date agreed on beforehand with the tenant

Graces7

Smyth wrote: »

Yeah, there's 3 of us in the apartment. 12 month lease. No landlord.

Looking at the lease now. Seems there's an extension of right from the landlord to another authorized party to act on behalf of the landlord, but as far as I can see they can only enter

1) in emergency
2) at a time and date agreed on beforehand with the tenant

There ye go than; they are covered by Tenancy Law.

Smyth

Graces7 wrote: »

There ye go than; they are covered by Tenancy Law.

They are or we are?

As far as I can tell the only criteria that would allow them to enter is if we both agreed on a time and date for this "inspection"

We agreed to no such time. They mentioned that they would have sent a letter to the apartment saying when they were going to be there (none of us have read this mail), but surely that cant be a legal agreement?

the_syco

Smyth wrote: »

as far as I can see they can only enter

1) in emergency
2) at a time and date agreed on beforehand with the tenant

As they had neither, they had no right to enter.

Check if the companyu is english or Irish; if it's the former, they may have been been going on english laws (don't know about english tenant law).

Zamboni

Have you tried ringing Savills Commerical on the phone number that was on the letter you recived on the 24th of May and made a complaint against the guy who entered your property with no permission?

He had absolutely no right to enter the property. At the very least his attitude is unprofessional.

Mr. Presentable

How did he get into the apartment?

Smyth

^^ I did ring Savills yeah. The first woman I spoke to was very unapologetic so I made a further calls to Kilmainham garda station and the HSQ tenants representative.

The Garda made a call to Savills and their manager asked to have my number to speak to me. This woman was a lot more understanding of the issue, but still didn't seem to grasp the legal side of things. One of her suggestions was that he could "knock harder" on the door.

There are more blocks of apartments to be inspected so I said to them I would drop any further action against them if they readjusted the way in which they carried out these inspections. They will have to liaise with the tenants representative to come up with a solution that doesn't invade anyone's privacy and obviously remains completely legal.

Their attitude of "well we have 300 apartments to attend to so we can't call all of them" really stunk. If they don't clean their game up, I'll be taking it further. They know that.

allanpkr

tell them you hope next time ,that you hope you dont think its a burglar and break his head

andrewg82

doesnt seem right that someone can walk into your bedroom unannounced!

Milk & Honey

Smyth wrote: »

Their attitude of "well we have 300 apartments to attend to so we can't call all of them" really stunk. If they don't clean their game up, I'll be taking it further. They know that.

You don't seem to have scared them so far!

Smyth

Milk & Honey wrote: »

You don't seem to have scared them so far!

Well I'm not sure where else to take it from here? What's left to do?

Bigus

Grant Thornton are receivers/ liquidators so you will find the law is different for them particularly if they were court appointed. Likewise a liquidator receiver can walk in to a business and lock the owner out as has happened a lot lately .. So don't get too uppity as theres no messing with these guys and you might find yourself high and dry lease or no lease , law on your side or not.
Extraordinary times.

djimi

Bigus wrote: »

Grant Thornton are receivers/ liquidators so you will find the law is different for them particularly if they were court appointed. Likewise a liquidator receiver can walk in to a business and lock the owner out as has happened a lot lately .. So don't get too uppity as theres no messing with these guys and you might find yourself high and dry lease or no lease , law on your side or not.
Extraordinary times.

Its not a business; its someones house. They still have to abide by the law and tresspassing is still tresspassing.

edellc

Agreed that it is someones home, however it is also a business, landlords are involved in business pure and simple

grant thorntons are as described

morally yes they should contact and arrange times to go to each of the 300 apts and under normal tenancy agreements that is the norm, however they seem to have taken over this business as a going concern and want to assess the true value so as to ascertain the assets of the company they have taken the property from, its all normal to do in business and I suppose checking 300 apts is a lot to value and they want to do it in a speedy manner, whereas if you get everyones approval it may take a whole lot longer

I'm not agreeing with it but it is how business works and letting out property is a business too

kneemos

Change the lock.

trishasaffron

edellc wrote: »

Agreed that it is someones home, however it is also a business, landlords are involved in business pure and simple

grant thorntons are as described

morally yes they should contact and arrange times to go to each of the 300 apts and under normal tenancy agreements that is the norm, however they seem to have taken over this business as a going concern and want to assess the true value so as to ascertain the assets of the company they have taken the property from, its all normal to do in business and I suppose checking 300 apts is a lot to value and they want to do it in a speedy manner, whereas if you get everyones approval it may take a whole lot longer

I'm not agreeing with it but it is how business works and letting out property is a business too

The fact that they are liquidators or whatever does not alter the tenants rights. OP I'd email the press and copy to Savills - you could also email them a copy of this thread for their edification - bullies.

djk1000

Bigus wrote: »

Grant Thornton are receivers/ liquidators so you will find the law is different for them particularly if they were court appointed. Likewise a liquidator receiver can walk in to a business and lock the owner out as has happened a lot lately .. So don't get too uppity as theres no messing with these guys and you might find yourself high and dry lease or no lease , law on your side or not.
Extraordinary times.

I used to work in liquidations/receiverships. At the point where the "owner" is kicked out, he's no longer the owner, the liquidator is. Liquidators generally don't have any more powers than any other property owner.

If I were you, I'd insist that the gardai investigate, if this lad gets interviewed under caution, that might get rid of the smirk! If he's a valuer, he's well aware of tenancy law and he was chancing his arm.

odds_on

Shorview Properties - used to own in.
Grant Thronton - own it now.
Savills Commercial - manage it for Grant Thornton.

So on the 24th of May we received a letter from Savills Commercial saying that they'd

Quote:
be in contact shortly as we have been instructed to carry out inspections of all properties owned by Shorview Limited

I would write to Savills and ask for an explanation. Also inform them that as no time had been agreed, their agent/representative entered the apartment illegally. Furthermore, you are considering making a claim for damages with the PRTB for illegal entry, disruption of your peaceful enjoyment, stress and discomfort against them. You can quote the two relevant sections of the RTA 2004, below.

I presume that no time was agreed for the inspection by one of your flatmates and that all occupants are on the same lease?

Just a new thought - Savills Commercial - maybe in the commercial world they can enter unannounced; but they certainly cannot in a private residential tenancy.

Section 12 of the RTA 2004, Landlord's obligations:
1 (a) allow the tenant of the dwelling to enjoy peaceful and exclusive occupation of the dwelling,

Section 16, Tenant's obligations:
(c) allow, at reasonable intervals, the landlord, or any person or persons acting on the landlord’s behalf, access to the dwelling (on a date and time agreed in advance with the tenant) for the purposes of inspecting the dwelling,

useruser

Smyth wrote: »

Well I'm not sure where else to take it from here? What's left to do?

Can you report them to the PRTB? I would on principle, if they get fined and you get some compensation so much the better. It's a pity you didn't immediately call the police when that grinning lout entered your apartment unannounced. Absolutely outrageous behaviour on the part of a company that should know better, I would be incensed if it happened to me.

ABajaninCork

the_syco wrote: »

As they had neither, they had no right to enter.

Check if the companyu is english or Irish; if it's the former, they may have been been going on english laws (don't know about english tenant law).

Even if they were going on tenancy laws in England/Wales; Scotland or NI. The landlord has to give 24 hours advance notice of visit, unless it's an emergency. They cannot enter without that notice. If they do, then the tenant is entitled to call the police to throw them out.

jd

There is some discussion about this at http://www.neighbours.ie/forums/showthread.php/29568-Apartment-Entrance and you may be able to get in contact with other residents there

The Big Red Button

Have you gotten in touch with GT? They probably won't be happy that the company they're paying to manage the property are breaking tenancy laws.