[wl] progression

UL_heart_throb

Just a general thread, not asking for specific advice.

But how do people, in general, programme their progress in OL. Seems to be a distinct lack of information on this on the interwebs.

You know when someone says they did a double 50kg or something. Does that mean they snatched or cjed it once, then again immediately after, or after a 2/3/5/ minute break?

Anyway,

If you can bench 50kg 5x5 without failure you should probably try 52.5kg
If you can snatch 50kg x3 should you try 52.5kg?

Or should you work up to a comfortable lifting zone and just keep hitting it for a while Then in some point in the future just increase your training weight and periodically test for PR.

Inspector Coptoor

Usually a double or triple is done without rest.

A 50kg snatch double would be two snatches done one after the other.

2 singles would have a rest period in between.

I don't have to worry about how to progress as I'm being coached & my programme us done for me & I just follow that.

but yeah, it's based off %ages of your max lifts, triples, then slightly heavier doubles, then some slightly heavier singles & then perhaps some back off sets (triples again) at a lighter weight, or it might just be straight sets of 6 x 3 or 7 x 3.

And then retest your max periodically every 4-5 weeks.

Molly

I'd say about 30 seconds would be the max between lifts before I'd call them singles but other people might have different times.

As for progression, I just do whatever my program tells me to do. If my program tells me to go to a max and I'm not having a good day I'll just go to what feels like a max for that day.

UL_heart_throb

Without giving away your coaches secrets can either of you give me a rough estimate of how frequently you work at maximums and how often you hit PR in your novice phase?

Is that personal question?

I shall check your logs.

g'em

There's a lot of variables in those questions

A novice who is beginning to weightlift has no real need to test maxes at all tbh, or at least not in terms of progression of the lifts. If you intend on competing, that can be your max test day and you plan around that. given that competitions are held year-round the average athlete can plan to compete at least 4-6 times a year comfortably, and training cycles are based around that.

For the high end athlete it's more like 2 'serious' comps and 2 or 3 smaller comps for comp practice and it's treated like a training session with 95% ish intensity reached.

Any weightlifting program will usually (and I say usually but in truth it varies massively depending on which school of thought you subscribe to) undulate it's intensity and volume, with the two rarely peaking together. When they do, it's planned.

Where timing is concerned we ultimately have competitions in mind - if an athlete is competitive then rest times will reflect that and you train with no longer than 2 minutes between sets of singles. If you're in a strength phase it can be longer than that.

Hanley

In the novice stage you should be hitting PRs incredibly frequently.

g'em

Hanley wrote: »

In the novice stage you should be hitting PRs incredibly frequently.

Absolutely - but as a by-product of regular training as opposed to a dedicated 'test' no?

Inspector Coptoor

I'm a complete novice at WL really.

I'm only snatching off the ground regularly in training the last three weeks or so.
Max snatch was an extremely ugly 63kg and I'd be hitting 90% of that for a single 1 week, then 92% the next, then 95% after that & then attempting a new max after that.

I've been cleaning for longer, it's still brutal (max is 95kg from testing 3 weeks ago)

I'd be hitting rep PRs (doubles & triples) almost every night at training (1kg here, 1kg there) & this is as a result of my technique & starting positions getting slightly better week on week

Btw, you won't find any recent log update from me here.

Hanley

g'em wrote: »

Absolutely - but as a by-product of regular training as opposed to a dedicated 'test' no?

I's confused... Do you think I was suggesting I think they should be testing repeatedly?

My point was that in the skills acquisition stage, especially, just learning to coordinate the lifts better (thru training) will lead to many PRs without the need to test.

Like the more they're training, the faster they improve, the more PRs that come along without really "trying" for it. It's so natural it's not something I thought I'd need to clarify.

Like when you start with nothing, pretty much anything you do to improve (train) will lead to... improvement (PRs)?

UL_heart_throb

Hanley wrote: »

In the novice stage you should be hitting PRs incredibly frequently.

g'em wrote: »

Absolutely - but as a by-product of regular training as opposed to a dedicated 'test' no?

Well I guess the thing is, as I develop the skill and technique my numbers will improve. As I develop strength my numbers will improve. So in the novice stage, while both are happening fairly rapidly, my numbers will I improve. So the question isn't really CAN I hit PRs but SHOULD I.

Like in the long term am I developing more doing

20x3, 25x3, 30x3, 35x3, 40x3, 42.5x2, 45x2, 47.5x2, 50x1
or 20x3,25x3, 30x3, 35x3,40x a lot trying to improve every a detail in every set?

opinions wanted, no disclaimers required

Hanley

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I'd be hitting rep PRs (doubles & triples) almost every night at training (1kg here, 1kg there) & this is as a result of my technique & starting positions getting slightly better week on week

Exactly was I was talking about

g'em

Hanley wrote: »

I's confused... Do you think I was suggesting I think they should be testing repeatedly?

My point was that in the skills acquisition stage, especially, just learning to coordinate the lifts better (thru training) will lead to many PRs without the need to test.

Like the more they're training, the faster they improve, the more PRs that come along without really "trying" for it. It's so natural it's not something I thought I'd need to clarify.

Like when you start with nothing, pretty much anything you do to improve (train) will lead to... improvement (PRs)?

That's grand, we're on the same page so

Hanley

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

So the question isn't really CAN I hit PRs but SHOULD I.

Literally all hinges on how your tekkers holds up. If it's good and solid all the way thru - bueno.

There's a lot to be said for working to near technical failure.

token

Pendlay Forum is good for weightlifting discussion. Someone asked the same question recently.

http://pendlayforum.com/showthread.php?t=6730

Generally my lifts are based on percentages apart from assistance stuff like rdls, split squats etc. I have a log but the percentages aren't listed.

My squats aren't percentage based either because that didn't really do much for me. I just build up over the weeks more like a regular program on those.

UL_heart_throb

I don't think I'm ready for the Pendlay forum yet. There's probably someone 20 years younger than me, 2 feet shorter than me, 50kg lighter than me, snatching twice as much as me as her warm up.

token

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

I don't think I'm ready for the Pendlay forum yet. There's probably someone 20 years younger than me, 2 feet shorter than me, 50kg lighter than me, snatching twice as much as me as her warm up.

Sure don't you already have the Ninja in UL for that?

Scuba Ste

Generally for beginners I think the best approach is moderate weight with moderate volume, not much different to how you'd approach general strength lifts in that regard. The main difference would be the number of reps and sets. You can't really go at the lifts with 5+ reps generally, you'll usually be doing 3-6 sets of doubles or triples and maybe sets of singles with around 8-12 reps total for your top weight. Glenn Pendlay's beginner program has a lifter doing the full lifts for 5x2 or 10x1 and that's similar to what my coach uses and from what I've read similar to how Russian's train younger lifters. I think your better off using the same weight across a number of sets because as a beginner it's easier to work through the fatigue rather than trying to deal with heavier ascending sets. I think it's easier to self correct between reps and sets too while the weight is not heavy in absolute terms allowing you to get a feel for the movement which is very important.

As a beginner your trying to build consistency as your still just learning the lifts so going heavy a lot might hurt your technical progression but I do think it's good to go heavy every 6 weeks or so myself even just to keep it fun. The lifts are actually not that difficult to learn (at least not as sometimes claimed) so maintaining and improving technique and increasing your numbers should go hand in hand. Increasing the weight you can do for 5x2 obviously increases your max but you should be able to push what you can do for reps consistently for a good while before needing to go on to some intermediate type programming.

UL throbby wrote:

Well I guess the thing is, as I develop the skill and technique my numbers will improve. As I develop strength my numbers will improve. So in the novice stage, while both are happening fairly rapidly, my numbers will I improve. So the question isn't really CAN I hit PRs but SHOULD I.

Like in the long term am I developing more doing

20x3, 25x3, 30x3, 35x3, 40x3, 42.5x2, 45x2, 47.5x2, 50x1
or 20x3,25x3, 30x3, 35x3,40x a lot trying to improve every a detail in every set?

opinions wanted, no disclaimers required

I don't think it matters too much whether you go 50x1 and try increase that next time or 40x3 and do the same. Generally it all ends up in the same place and when you eventually stall I'd say your max numbers would be similar either way. In terms of technique I think it depends on the individual. Can you hold good positions consistently while going close to maximum regularly? Most people have to build up to that and generally it's best done through volume with lighter weights. If your already pretty strong you'll find it easier than someone with very little strength training.

As for doubles or triples, again it's same as with any lift, do it as fast as you feel comfortable doing it. It won't be as fast as a squat but you have to drop the bar, maybe reset your grip and start position so that adds a few seconds. I don't like people taking too long to do them, walking away form the bar, taking a few deep breaths, psyching themselves up again and then setting up. That's nearly two singles. Watch top lifters do doubles. Even with very heavy weights it's up and down and up again almost straight away. Taking 5 mins rest between sets is way too long and can actually cause you to lose your groove, especially in the snatch.