What do you think of Dublin Bus Updated Penalty Fare?

dublinman1990

The recession is just making everything worse. DB gives us more worse news even in the most straightened times.

I can advise you, this would not make for fine reading.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Standard-Fare-Penalty-Update/

Tarabuses

dublinman1990 wrote: »

The recession is just making everything worse. DB gives us more worse news even in the most straightened times.

I can advise you, this would not make for fine reading.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Standard-Fare-Penalty-Update/

Shouldn't affect anyone who has a valid ticket for their journey.

LXFlyer

What's bad about it?

If people pay the correct fare then this is never an issue.

Yet another nonsensical post.

devnull

dublinman1990 wrote: »

The recession is just making everything worse. DB gives us more worse news even in the most straightened times.

I can advise you, this would not make for fine reading.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Standard-Fare-Penalty-Update/

What the hell does the recession have to do this? It's hardly bad news, it's fantastic news in my opinion as this is not going to effect anyone who pays their fare and does not try and con the bus company.

I've seen a few people even on these boards saying that sure, I try and get away with not paying properly on the bus as the amount of money I save over the year is more than the 50 euro fine I could possibly get. The doubling of the fine makes it even less beneficial for such fare dodgers to do it.

I'm far from Dublin Bus' biggest fan but I don't see what anyone who pays the correct fare can see wrong with this.

the groutch

best decision DB has made in years, long overdue.
hopefully it will facilitate them being able to afford more inspectors.

Losty Dublin

I'll add my voice to those welcoming this. You can expect a blitz of inspections over the coming weeks to back this up.

Cookie_Monster

Can't see a downside tbh, recession has nothing to do with it apart from maybe increasing the number of chance takers. As long as it's enforced equally between everyone (unlike Luas where the scum just saunter off) I don't see a problem.

The_Wrecker

Great news, fare evasion is part of life on my route.

foggy_lad

lxflyer wrote: »

What's bad about it?

If people pay the correct fare then this is never an issue.

Yet another nonsensical post.

With all stage markings removed from routes and passengers having to rely on overworked drivers to keep their ticket machines updated as well as remembering fares for several routes how can any passenger guarantee getting the correct fare when they state their destination or present their prepaid ticket or Leap Card to either driver or validator?

LXFlyer

Eh, the drivers have been keeping their ticket machines updated since 1987. Nothing new there.

And how are they overworked? They all work standard hours, and in many cases actually work less hours now due to the EU working time directive which greatly restricts the amount of overtime they can work.

Frankly why am I surprised at yet another moan for moanings sake. Do you ever stop trying to find fault with everything in life? A very sad outlook I have to say.

Anyone who legitimately told the driver where they were going is not going to be hit with a €100 fine. All the inspectors need to do is ask the driver.

This is only bad news for people who are fare evading, full stop.

The_Wrecker

The revenue lads are not hitting the passenger that are a few stages out. They hit my bus on the NCR recent and had sure targets in mind.

The_Wrecker

foggy_lad wrote: »

With all stage markings removed from routes and passengers having to rely on overworked drivers to keep their ticket machines updated as well as remembering fares for several routes how can any passenger guarantee getting the correct fare when they state their destination or present their prepaid ticket or Leap Card to either driver or validator?

If they state their destination, there is no reason for them not to have a correct ticket (give or take a stage) depending on regular/spare staff.

The revenue unit know the stages are an issue and can generally judge a ticket issue location by the time printed on it.

They also wont chase 1/2 stages out, but will go after the career evader.

PS cheers for the overworked remark ~ never get a minute! (at times true).

foggy_lad

The_Wrecker wrote: »

The revenue lads are not hitting the passenger that are a few stages out. They hit my bus on the NCR recent and had sure targets in mind.

Luas inspectors are doing the same, I overheard two of them talking to a woman about how they had seen her apparently tagging on and off but she could not produce a ticket when challenged.

If your ticket states Cork st and you are halfway to Tallaght(having paid to go to Tallaght) when the inspector gets on they are not going to even ask the driver, if they are like the Irish Rail RPU agents, they will just issue the fine and tewll you to appeal it!

the groutch

quick side question:

how do inspectors check smartcards? do they have a scanner to check when it was last validated?

CIE

Gotta love all the cheerleading for expanding government on here, eh. If there were a flat fare, then everyone pays the same rate and there wouldn't be the need for inspectors either; the fare evaders would be quite obvious then, since they would try to get on the bus without paying.

LXFlyer

the groutch wrote: »

quick side question:

how do inspectors check smartcards? do they have a scanner to check when it was last validated?

Yes they do.

Ben D Bus

CIE wrote: »

If there were a flat fare,

But there isn't.

Cookie_Monster

CIE wrote: »

since they would try to get on the bus without paying.

like they do now you mean?

CIE

Ben D Bus wrote: »

me wrote: »

If there were a flat fare ...

But there isn't

Irrelevant. Lobby for a flat fare; it's useful and saves a lot of paper. DB isn't going to change unless enough people tell them to, and if the people don't do it, the politicians will come up with funny ideas by themselves (e.g. Network Direct, getting rid of viable "ben-d buses", et cetera)...

markpb

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I'll add my voice to those welcoming this. You can expect a blitz of inspections over the coming weeks to back this up.

9 people will find it hard to blitz a 1,000 bus network.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

9 people will find it hard to blitz a 1,000 bus network.

Where are you getting the figure of 9 from?

Dravokivich

foggy_lad wrote: »

If your ticket states Cork st and you are halfway to Tallaght(having paid to go to Tallaght) when the inspector gets on they are not going to even ask the driver, if they are like the Irish Rail RPU agents, they will just issue the fine and tewll you to appeal it!

If the problem is with which stage is set on the ticket machine at the time of purchase, it won't be 1 ticket that'll be off by so far.

bk

I was thinking about exactly this issue recently and was going to post about it.

It seems to me that DB are obsessed with ticket evasion to the determent of the customer.

They operate single door buses so that everyone has to pass the driver and pay the fare. This way they can enforce a basic level of fare, without the need for many ticket inspectors.

But this has obvious negative impacts on dwell and journey times, making a worse experience for the majority of honest passengers.

But this is contrary to best practise in most other European cities. Most other countries operate 2 or 3 door buses, with a honour system. You can board at any door and validate your ticket on board. On some you can even buy your ticket on board!!

Fare evasion is kept low with lots of ticket inspectors and high fines. The high fines discourage most people from fare evasion, while covering the cost of the extra ticket inspectors.

This has multiple benefits:
1) Much faster dwell and journey times
2) Low fare evasion
3) Extra security on the bus, good to reduce anti social behavior.

The Luas uses a similar system here, and I believe it has proven that this model can work very well here in Ireland. Luas is profitable and the fines not only cover the costs of inspectors, but also it is estimated that the fines cover the cost of fare evaders who aren't caught. So you have the best of all worlds.

I hope this is a first step by DB towards introducing a similar model here in Dublin and operating double door buses, with all the entailing benefits.

BTW interestingly in some companies the ticket inspectors are contractors, who then get a percentage of every fine issued. As you can imagine this makes them very effective and very motivated. No getting away with not having the correct fare.

Cookie_Monster

bk wrote: »

Most other countries operate 2 or 3 door buses, with a honour system.

the problem with that is the inbuilt cute hoorism, get one over on the man, why bother attitude ingrained in the Irish pyche.

"Why pay if no one makes you, I'll take the chance sure." And that's not something that's going to change any time soon for a large section of Irish society IMO

devnull

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the problem with that is the inbuilt cute hoorism, get one over on the man, why bother attitude ingrained in the Irish pyche.

"Why pay if no one makes you, I'll take the chance sure." And that's not something that's going to change any time soon for a large section of Irish society IMO

Pretty much agree, we have too many with that kind of attitude, you just have to see some of the threads on this board over the course of the last few months, such as one about a week ago to see that.

The amount of people I see fare evading here is FAR higher than what I see elsewhere.

bk

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the problem with that is the inbuilt cute hoorism, get one over on the man, why bother attitude ingrained in the Irish pyche.

"Why pay if no one makes you, I'll take the chance sure." And that's not something that's going to change any time soon for a large section of Irish society IMO

Trust me, this is true in many countries. Suddenly also very true of Czech, Lithuania and Polish from personal experience. Probably true of all the ex-communist countries, after all "the man" was Russia, so no love lost there, just like the English for us.

Yet they somehow manage to make it work.

It is funny, we Irish always seem to think we are something special and different. If you do a lot of travel, you will find that we really aren't that different, at least not compared to other European countries.