Melodic Hardcore???

Parkwaydrive

Do people who love the original "punk" scene and all of that appreciate the genres hardcore furthermore melodic hardcore as a progression of punk??

Just an opinion thread I guess, interesting one to find out what people think!

bassey

No

Parkwaydrive

You, my friend, are a dick!

dregin

You asked for opinions and call people dicks for not agreeing with you?

No.

dregin

dregin wrote: »

You asked for opinions and call people dicks for not agreeing with you?

No.

What he said. If you want the answer to the question to be "yes", then call people "dicks" when the answer is "no", then you're asking the wrong people.

Oh! The answer is no anyway. Too many hardcore bands are just sub-standard bad heavy metal bands who just haven't figured out enough chords to be fully fledged bad heavy metal bands yet.

Parkwaydrive

dregin wrote: »

You asked for opinions and call people dicks for not agreeing with you?

No.

Absolutely not, but most people are friendly on this. You clearly aren't. I didn't want to offend anyone, you could've given a reason.. It doesn't matter..

Mr. Grinder

'Melodic Hardcore'? There's no such thing...Call it by it's true name, 'Edgy Pop music'.

AnimalRights

No to original OP and that's not to say I only like original Punk and not the various forms that has sprouted since....I just dislike some.

Brunteaphile

Mr. Grinder wrote: »

'Melodic Hardcore'? There's no such thing...Call it by it's true name, 'Edgy Pop music'.

Exactly, Hardcore is Hardcore aka Thrash Metal.

Take your melodies to the Indie Forum with the other ****e.

Malice

Brunteaphile wrote: »

Exactly, Hardcore is Hardcore aka Thrash Metal.

Are you saying hardcore punk doesn't exist or that if it does exist that it's thrash metal?

Mr. Grinder

Thrash would be more on the metal side of things. Metallica's 'Kill 'em all' album as an example (that was before they tuned into a cabaret band incidentally).

Harcore Punk would be, The Exploited, GBH, Discharge, etc.

And original 80s Hardcore would be more, Madball, S.O.I.A.,Bad Brains, Minor Threat & Agnostic Front.

That would be my understanding anyway (people may disagree tho').

Malice

That's my understanding too which is why I'm confused as to how the two distinctive genres are being described as the same thing.

dregin

THIS IS BOSTON, NOT LA!!!!!!!!!!!!

\m/

Brunteaphile

Is this melodic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mn1WN5yeag

bombidol

Its certainly 90s NYHC. Which tended to be a bastard child of Oi, metal and 80s HC.
Ignite would be a good example of a melodic hc band to me. H20 also.
HC has a lot in common with good trash from back in the day.

Mr. Grinder

Brunteaphile wrote: »

Is this melodic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mn1WN5yeag

Class!

@Bombidol. There's deintely spillage form thr vaious genres, but back in the mid 80s when hardcore was at it's peak there was nothing that could be considered melodic per se. I mean, it started as a counter against that hair metal which had become so sanitized and happy.

Ignite, as an example you used. I still don't consider them HC, they would be some kind of off shoot, or post hardcore. In fact, I see a lot of the nineties stuff (not all to be fair) is just 'post hardcore'.

bombidol

Well it really depends on your definition of hardcore. Bands like Dag Nasty etc could be termed as melodic hardcore and they were 80s. Its all evolution really, I consider Ignite a hardcore band as their roots are in that genre, they just had a singer who could actually sing and went down that route. H20 evolved from Sick of it all as Toby was a roadie and tech for them for years and was encouraged by them lads to get involved. Listening to Agnostic Front from the start with stuff like victim in pain, then up to Riot Riot upstart etc theres a MASSIVE difference in vocals.

Mr. Grinder

I hear what your saying man...I've no problem with certain nuances that every band has, or individuals bring when they migrate. It's always going to happen and that's not a bad thing.

But for me personally, I'm really into old skool HC, and when it changes for the bad, then it just becomes 'post HC'. Even tho' you could say it's an evolution. However, I don't think that 'evolution' is necessarily a good thing. Especially in underground music. Because when it gets a bit more of a following, or becomes 'cool', it's nabbed by musicians that often tame it down, and loose what it was about in the first place...

Just look at Punk for example. My god some of the bands that call themselves Punk these days would be better at a school disco.

Now, I have no problem with bands who want to be melodic or screamo (ugh!) or whatever. While I dislike the sound, it's none of my business what some own else wants to play and enjoy.

But I do have a problem with them claiming to be Punk or Hardcore band especially when it's just a watered down version, and after standing on the back of giants.

I mean, a lot of these bands call themselves 'Punk', but really, it would be much more honest to call themselves 'pop punk' a la Blink 182, etc. At least then they are being honest. Not that they would ever do that of course, 'case it wouldn't' be as 'cool'.

That's my thinking on it anyway...:)

Mr. Grinder

100%!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohYF4CNsqw0

Parkwaydrive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAFUjYAkpzU
Would anyone here consider that to have even evolved from hardcore??

dregin

Probably? I don't know much about hardcore, but they sound a lot like some of the bands that frequent moshspace... so, yes?

Speaking of which, saw this last night. Pretty DAYCENT!

Mr Whirly

Grade were deadly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9nwzbVGTIw&feature=related

bombidol

Bang Bros are deadly. SAVAGE video too. Madball are Madball, and if Madball were to form now they would sound like Counterpart as thats what modern hardcore sounds like. Terror etc. MUCH more metallic but hey, thats evolution for you.

bombidol

Also, its been said before but Gotta go by Agnostic front is a reworking of a Warzone song.

Mr. Grinder

bombidol wrote: »

Bang Bros are deadly. SAVAGE video too. Madball are Madball, and if Madball were to form now they would sound like Counterpart as thats what modern hardcore sounds like. Terror etc. MUCH more metallic but hey, thats evolution for you.

I guess that's the thing tho', innit... 'Modern Hardcore' isn't really old school HC, so it's all technically 'post HC', and therefore, it's really formed into its own genre.

For me tho', it will never be as good, but it's all subjective anyway...

I dunno' if I agree with you on the Madball thing. Because there's still quite few bands emulating the old skool sound. Plus, given Madball's early roots and all... If I was ever to form a band again, it would definitely go the old school rout - Maybe along the lines of early Suicidal (nothing like their 'Join the army stuff' stuff tho'!!!).

Cheers.

beano345

im a massive fan and collector of early 80s hardcore bands like the fix,circle one, jerrys kids ,the f.u's,government issue,the offenders it is an accuired taste i just love the aggression and rawness of it,not too pushed on modern hardcore,well maybe judge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPO0VVgwgMw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozr4MJ7C1Yw

Mr. Grinder

Nice one Beano!

I should point out too that there's some really good Irish bands still doing old style Hardcore too. 'Complan' would be the definitive Irish HC band for me, these guys are great! And Corrosive Machine are up and coming, and one people should keep their eyes on.

dregin

I always liked Famine, but they broke up. Only Fumes and Corpses are awesballs too.

Mr. Grinder

I did love Coitus and early Coldwar as well...:)

beano345

i always kinda associated melodic hardcore with rites of spring,husker du and the minutemen, there was an old irish hardcore band called black belt jones dont know if there still about

beano345

im not knocking judge but this is whats called hardcore nowadays,its a very broad term a lot of bands get lumped into the category

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3eYBpa8UgQ

i could kinda see the progrresion with these lads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH8n1KvO8_M

but to me these is hardcore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOBeNbtxFVU

2.10 turn your speakers down....:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7ZcuNsbf54

xMac Kellx

Have Heart, Verse and The Carrier (earlier stuff) would be actual melodic hardcore bands.

People describe a lot of chug chug metal type bands as melodic hardcore but that's just not truth.

Some hardcore bands are just a coin flip away from being metal bands, though. Cliched to say but hardcore is really about more than the music. Def incorporates attitude etc etc

dregin

xMac Kellx wrote: »

Def incorporates attitude etc etc

And flannel shirts!!

bombidol

love an oul flannel shirt myself

MSVforever

Nice Hardcore from Berlin.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zHhKDZ_Qgw

dubbeat

Mr. Grinder wrote: »

'Melodic Hardcore'? There's no such thing...Call it by it's true name, 'Edgy Pop music'.

Bad Religion ?

Mr. Grinder

dubbeat wrote: »

Bad Religion ?

Errrr...Pop Punk?

bombidol

Bad religion are not pop punk. I dont even like em, but pop punk? come on.

Mr. Grinder

Pop punk to me mate... No disrespect intended here. I can't stand them...
That's not to say, that other people can't like them of course, it's just my opinion.

But to me, the Exploited/GBH, etc. are proper Punk, not bands like Bad Religion. Same goes for HC as I've already said.

To me, all that stuff is lumped under Post punk or Post Hardcore. Sorry, none of you can convince me otherwise. :P

Mr. Grinder

This what I'm talking about. Bad Religion Vs this??? No chance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaOzbsv2ZB0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0LxCNAsE64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bZzM4s0Hgs

AaronPunk

I know a lot of people hate Bad Religion, but I really like them.
They're the band that got me into music in general when I was 14, so if it wasn't for them I wouldn't really be listening to real music now and would probably be stuck listening to mainstream pop ****e.
While I'll admit not every one of their albums have been great, I have a lot of respect for them.
But that's just my opinion.

ElvisChrist6

I grew up with punk, original punk (not in the period, but with the music), and do get a bit fidgety when people call things punk that clearly aren't, but at the moment, hardcore punk would probably be what I listen to most. What I consider hardcore punk (that is, thrashier punk in some ways, but mostly angrier, heavier punk) would be bands like Black Flag, The Exploited, early Corrosion of Conformity, Cryptic Slaughter, DRI (even though some would say Crossover Thrash isn't punk) and Dublin's Crows as these bands are very easily distinguishable as punk bands - the progressions, themes, the anger. I don't think there's any denying the UK82 bands or the American hardcore bands were punk, though The Exploited did become a solely crossover band, and though there is still some similarities to punk, I don't think they're a punk band anymore.

However, melodic hardcore, I would not consider punk. I mostly think it's awful in any case, but that's just my taste. I don't really see punk in them, I'd say it's a different type of music influenced by punk. To me, it's pop music with more distortion. I'd be more than willing to accept early hardcore, crust punk and all of that, but not melodic.

Edit: Also, what some people call hardcore these days is nothing but whiny emo crap... some call it post hardcore, but it still makes finding new real hardcore bands somewhat trickier... very annoying...

Mr. Grinder

ElvisChrist6 wrote: »

I grew up with punk, original punk (not in the period, but with the music), and do get a bit fidgety when people call things punk that clearly aren't, but at the moment, hardcore punk would probably be what I listen to most. What I consider hardcore punk (that is, thrashier punk in some ways, but mostly angrier, heavier punk) would be bands like Black Flag, The Exploited, early Corrosion of Conformity, Cryptic Slaughter, DRI (even though some would say Crossover Thrash isn't punk) and Dublin's Crows as these bands are very easily distinguished as punk bands - the progressions, themes, the anger. I don't think there's any denying the UK82 bands or the American hardcore bands were punk, though The Exploited did become a solely crossover band, and though there is still some similarities to punk, I don't think they're a punk band anymore.

However, melodic hardcore, I would not consider punk. I mostly think it's awful in any case, but that's just my taste. I don't really see punk in them, I'd say it's a different type of music influenced by punk. To me, it's pop music with more distortion. I'd be more than willing to accept early hardcore, crust punk and all of that, but not melodic.

Edit: Also, what some people call hardcore these days is nothing but whiny emo crap... some call it post hardcore, but it still makes finding new real hardcore bands somewhat trickier... very annoying...

Sums it up nicely for me...:D

SilverScreen

ElvisChrist6 wrote: »

However, melodic hardcore, I would not consider punk. I mostly think it's awful in any case, but that's just my taste. I don't really see punk in them, I'd say it's a different type of music influenced by punk. To me, it's pop music with more distortion. I'd be more than willing to accept early hardcore, crust punk and all of that, but not melodic.

Edit: Also, what some people call hardcore these days is nothing but whiny emo crap... some call it post hardcore, but it still makes finding new real hardcore bands somewhat trickier... very annoying...

I think you need to have a more open mind about what punk is. I'd still consider some of the earliest emo and post-hardcore bands as punk, what gets labelled as 'emo' and 'post-hardcore' these days is far from what those terms originally meant and far from punk. Take bands like Embrace, Rites Of Spring, Moss Icon and later The Nation Of Ulysses, they incorporated melody and intelligent and confessional lyrics into their sound and were still carrying the punk spirit. By the late-80's hardcore punk had already descended into cliques, those bands went against all that and did something different at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Hq9U3kwWU

ElvisChrist6

Zero1986 wrote: »

I think you need to have a more open mind about what punk is. I'd still consider some of the earliest emo and post-hardcore bands as punk, what gets labelled as 'emo' and 'post-hardcore' these days is far from what those terms originally meant and far from punk. Take bands like Embrace, Rites Of Spring, Moss Icon and later The Nation Of Ulysses, they incorporated melody and intelligent and confessional lyrics into their sound and were still carrying the punk spirit. By the late-80's hardcore punk had already descended into cliques, those bands went against all that and did something different at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Hq9U3kwWU

You're right when you say the early emo bands were punk, but it became a commercial thing and that's what I consider to be emo - I know the term was comandeered from real punk bands, but I almost forget it most of the time. I grew up with that term meaning something completely different, it's hard to get it out of my head that the term relates to that new stuff!