Draw&Fade

timmo2000

can anyone give me some tips to try out these shots any help will be great

irish bloke

timmo2000 wrote: »

can anyone give me some tips to try out these shots any help will be great

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

ForeRight

Holy god!!!

timmo2000

are they that hard to pull off ?
or is there no tips for them

irish bloke

timmo2000 wrote: »

are they that hard to pull off ?
or is there no tips for them

Simple, pull them off the whole time, just never know when...

ForeRight

I hit a shot yesterday and it was a nice draw and then it started to fade nicely towards the flag.
There were trees in my way so the draw&fade shot was all I could do.

It's all about the clubs you have

link_2007

I refuse to even acknowledge that 'draw' and 'fade' shots even exist.

I might, might let them re-enter my vocabulary once I get the hang of this hitting it 'straight' business.

stockdam

Can you hit the ball straight?

If so then a fade is very easy............just open the face of the club and then take your normal grip (don't grip then open the face.........do it the other way). Feel as though you are swinging across the line from out to in. Keep your wrists passive.

A draw is usually a bit harder and you may need to roll your wrists through the ball to help. Just do the same as above but close the face before gripping.

timmo2000

yes i can hit the ball straight 9 times out of ten my clubs are titlest 690 cb forged driver is titlest 907 d2
so wat ur saying is a fade is a shot with the club face open and an outside swing and a draw is the opposite

Tones69

timmo2000 wrote: »

yes i can hit the ball straight 9 times out of ten my clubs are titlest 630 cb forged driver is titlest 907 d2
so wat ur saying is a fade is a shot with the club face open and an outside swing and a draw is the opposite

Most pros cant even hit the ball straight 9 out of 10 times so thats serious going, i actually find it hard to hit it dead straight, alyways seems to be a little bit of fade or draw. Whats ur hcap

timmo2000

when i say straight it not 100% straight so i really should have statedit wat i should have said i hit fairways 9 times out of 10 and i dont have a handicap as i dont play competitive i just play for fun and with the driver im all over the place maybe one of ten is straight

newport2

Tones69 wrote: »

Most pros cant even hit the ball straight 9 out of 10 times so thats serious going, i actually find it hard to hit it dead straight, alyways seems to be a little bit of fade or draw. Whats ur hcap

I remember Faldo making the point that amateurs should concentrate on a draw or a fade when playing golf up to a certain level, because he said hitting the ball dead straight is far harder than drawing or fading it.

GreeBo

ForeRight wrote: »

I hit a shot yesterday and it was a nice draw and then it started to fade nicely towards the flag.
There were trees in my way so the draw&fade shot was all I could do.

It's all about the clubs you have

A draw that turned into a fade?
Please explain!

stockdam

GreeBo wrote: »

A draw that turned into a fade?
Please explain!

Talk to your ball nicely and it does what you ask.

GreeBo

stockdam wrote: »

Talk to your ball nicely and it does what you ask.

Even to the point of defying the laws of physics?!

newport2

stockdam wrote: »

Talk to your ball nicely and it does what you ask.

Talking to your ball is only effective when you do it during your opponents backswing

stockdam

timmo2000 wrote: »

so wat ur saying is a fade is a shot with the club face open and an outside swing and a draw is the opposite

Yes that's it basically. A fade is when you impart sidespin (clockwise when looking from above for a right handed player). You do it by hitting the ball with the club-face open relative to the line of your swing.

Stick to trying to hit the ball relatively straight (with your driver) and then learn the finer techniques later. Not many amateurs hit a fade or draw at will and those that can, use them only when needed (hitting round an obstacle, getting round a dogleg, firing away from trouble and letting the fade/draw move the ball back to the target).

You need to have a fairly good swing before you start adjusting for a fade or a draw. There's nothing worse than a fade that turns into a banana slice or a draw that turns into a snap hook.........well other than aiming left for a fade and hitting a snap hook.

donalg1

I hit a fade for years when I started playing could very rarely hit it straight at all, then one day I realised that my stance was a bit open (my left foot was slightly behind the line of my right) as below:

_

. _

I then moved them more back in line with one another and began hitting the ball straighter, eventually I tried moving my left foot more forward and managed to hit the odd draw too, although this was probably more of a fluke than anything, I did attempt a big draw by really hooking across the ball if you know what I mean, but this was more a hook than a gentle draw.

To start to learn to fade I would try open the feet as above and this may encourage you to swing naturally on an out to in plain maybe!

charlieIRL

i can draw and fade the ball nearly every time off the tee...........if i want to hit a draw it normally fades and if i want a fade it could draw!!!

I'd worry about hitting it straight consistently before trying anything else!!

stockdam

donalg1 wrote: »

To start to learn to fade I would try open the feet as above and this may encourage you to swing naturally on an out to in plain maybe!

Yes it's mainly in the setup once you have a decent swing. Aim to the left (feet and shoulders aiming left). The most important part is to open the face of the club AND THEN take your grip. Most people make the mistake of gripping and then rolling the hands and clubface open.

All you really do is setup as if you are hitting a straight shot but aim left and open the face of the club and then lastly take your grip.

That's the simple way to do it but not the only way. You can change your swing a bit to help but why complicate things; swing changes don't hold up under pressure unless you are a very talented golfer who "feels" the shot.

Hitting a draw is harder (I'm not sure why)........my natural shot is a draw but I find it easier to control a fade than to deviate away from my natural draw - I often end up with a push or a snap hook if I mess around.

Oh and my days of being able to do what I used to be able to do are well gone.

GreeBo

Its been shown that the swing path rather than the club face is the major determinant in the flight of a golf ball.
Clubface relative to swing plane controls the initial direction of the ball but the swing path relative to the target line controls the ultimate ball flight.

"New" Golf Ball flight Laws

ssbob

GreeBo wrote: »

Its been shown that the swing path rather than the club face is the major determinant in the flight of a golf ball.
Clubface relative to swing plane controls the initial direction of the ball but the swing path relative to the target line controls the ultimate ball flight.

"New" Golf Ball flight Laws

"Horse sh*t", how do you explain the flop shot?

timmo2000

so draws and fades are not really needed thats grand then ill stick to the way im playing and not worry about it thanks all

GreeBo

ssbob wrote: »

"Horse sh*t", how do you explain the flop shot?

Its where the ball "flops" up into the air with little power behind it, travels higher than it moves along the ground and lands softly without much roll.


The flop shot is a pull-fade shot.
You swing out to in with an open club face. The open clubface offsets the out to in swing so the ball starts on target. The ball isnt travelling far enough (and has more back spin than side spin anyway) so you dont notice it fading.

Tones69

GreeBo wrote: »

Its been shown that the swing path rather than the club face is the major determinant in the flight of a golf ball.
Clubface relative to swing plane controls the initial direction of the ball but the swing path relative to the target line controls the ultimate ball flight.

"New" Golf Ball flight Laws

Very true, explains how you see good golfers still drawing the ball with a slightly open face

TheDoc

link_2007 wrote: »

I refuse to even acknowledge that 'draw' and 'fade' shots even exist.

I might, might let them re-enter my vocabulary once I get the hang of this hitting it 'straight' business.

Its harder to hit straight ...

Funny enough, alot of people assume proffesional players or good players hit the ball straight which is incorrect.

Most hit their natural shape, being a draw or a fade.

Typically really good ball strikers hit a natural draw. I'm not even joking, its the first thing I noticed when I went to my first and only pro event being the Ryder cup in the Kclub, everyone hit shots with a shape.

And I remember some interview on sky sports years ago with Monty and there was a viewer question asking something about shapes and he also mentioned barely anyone hits straight shots, everyone hits their natural shape because its more consistent and comfortable.

Youll also notice most recently Ricky Fowler having a struggle with the dog legs right, he hits a natural draw and commentators even mentioned how he was struggling to hit the ball straight

ssbob

GreeBo wrote: »

Its where the ball "flops" up into the air with little power behind it, travels higher than it moves along the ground and lands softly without much roll.


The flop shot is a pull-fade shot.
You swing out to in with an open club face. The open clubface offsets the out to in swing so the ball starts on target. The ball isnt travelling far enough (and has more back spin than side spin anyway) so you dont notice it fading.

An open club face creates fade, out to in creates fade, but on the flop shot the major determining factor of ball flight ie. up high is the open club face, because a closed club face would not work.

There is a lot of talk now about this D-plane and I think Hunter Mahan uses it, it looks like he cuts across the ball but still for some reason the ball draws.

GreeBo

ssbob wrote: »

An open club face creates fade, out to in creates fade, but on the flop shot the major determining factor of ball flight ie. up high is the open club face, because a closed club face would not work.

There is a lot of talk now about this D-plane and I think Hunter Mahan uses it, it looks like he cuts across the ball but still for some reason the ball draws.

I'm not sure what your point is here...are you disagreeing with my description of a flop shot? The argument is about how to shape the ball...its not height related.

The laws still apply (as I described above) for flop shots, you just dont get to see it as clearly as with other shots. Note however that with a flop shot the ball usually rolls right, due to the cut-spin.

Do you have any examples of Hunter hitting a draw with a cut swing?
All I can find is fade shots...

ssbob

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is here...are you disagreeing with my description of a flop shot? The argument is about how to shape the ball...its not height related.

The laws still apply (as I described above) for flop shots, you just dont get to see it as clearly as with other shots. Note however that with a flop shot the ball usually rolls right, due to the cut-spin.

Do you have any examples of Hunter hitting a draw with a cut swing?
All I can find is fade shots...

I do agree with you however I do think that open/closed club face has a great impact on ball flight/shape as happens with myself when I roll over and close the face I get a hook.................

Can't find anything now from Hunter, it may not have been him but will look later when I am home!

GreeBo

ssbob wrote: »

I do agree with you however I do think that open/closed club face has a great impact on ball flight/shape as happens with myself when I roll over and close the face I get a hook.................

Can't find anything now from Hunter, it may not have been him but will look later when I am home!

The relationship between clubface and swing path definitely does have an impact. A straight swing path with a closed face will draw, likewise an open face with a straight swing path will fade. However in both of these cases the ball starts away from the target and gets further away.

Eg, line up facing the flag, swing straight with a closed clubface and the ball will start left of the target and draw further left.

Mahan can hit a draw with an out to in swing as long as the clubface angle is closed enough.

Basically the rules show that the direction a ball starts out is ~85% dependent on the clubface angle and not the swing path. I kinda didnt explain it very well in my first post.:o

kagni

The below chart explains it well I think.
The black line is the direction the clubface is pointing, the red line is the swing path.
You end up with 9 different ball flights.