Have you seen reduced gas bills by replacing your boiler?

iMADEtheBBC

My question is to anyone who has replaced their gas boiler because they believe it will reduce their home heating/water heating bills.

I had a rep from airtricity provide a quotation (just under €3k) to replace our 12 year old Mexico Super 3 gas boiler. http://www.airtricity.com/ie/home/services/gas-boiler-replacement/

The Airtricity site links to http://www.seai.ie/ which specifically says that I can cut my bills by a quarter.

http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Heat_Your_Home_For_Less/Replacing_Your_Boiler/

Increasing the operational efficiency of your boiler by this amount represents an actual fuel saving of more than 25%. In other words, by replacing an older, low efficiency boiler with a new, high efficiency boiler, you can cut your fuel bills by a quarter.

If you've had your boiler replaced have you found this to be close to the truth?

I follow the logic that a newer boiler should be efficient and should result in lower gas bills but in reality how long will it be before I get a return on this investment?

deandean

I replaced an older gas boiler (about 78% efficient IIRC) with a modern gas boiler (stated 92% efficient).

I made a point of logging gas usage before and after. I noticed no decrease in gas usage because of the new boiler.

I did get a decrease in gas consumption, about 10%, by draftproofing the house; adding 3-zone control; and adding some insulation.

I wouldn't believe those SEAI figures of 25% saving for a second. I regard those figures as misleading. To get that level of saving you'd want to be doing full external insulation, etc etc etc.

You'll end up replacing your existing boiler at some stage, and when you do I suggest you have the entire c/h system reviewed, & in particular look at adding 3-zone control and perhaps a modern insulated hot water cylinder if you don't have one.

And be aware of the plume of condensate that comes out the exhaust of modern boilers, mine can be up to 5 metres long, and there have been a few posts here about the plume causing problems with neighbours.

TheNewMe

I replaced my old Potterton (maybe 15yrs old or so) with a new Ariston combi boiler last summer. In the period August 2011 to April 2012 I noticed a reduction of 1/3 in total number of consumed gas units compared with the previous year. Worked out about 200 euro less I figured.

Things to consider:
1. I also added pumped insulation to the walls although all external walls were previously drylined anyway so not sure about how much extra benefit this brought but it was necessary for the SEAI grant- ditto for the zoned controller below.
2. I added TRVs to all the rads also along with a simple 1 zone controller.
3. This most recent winter was a lot milder than the one the year before.
4. The house was much cosier this year and I felt much less restricted in leaving radiators on in rooms that are less heavily used i.e. better to have a room warm when needed than have to wait.

In a nutshell I am very happy with the upgrade. I have a much warmer, nicer living environment and I am not so far seeing any increase in running costs.

iMADEtheBBC

Thank you both. I expect I will need to replace the boiler at some point in the future however right now I am not convinced there is any financial benefit to doing this. The house is warm and I'm really just looking at return-on-investment.

I've already got TRVs on every radiator (because the cowboys who built the house didn't wire the thermostat in the hallway to anything... the cabling just disappears into the wall <facepalm>). This gives us room level control and although zoning appeals to the nerd in me I'm happy to continue using the TRVs to regulate.

For the same money I can have a PVC porch installed which would take care of the only exposed area of the house (front door). I suspect I'll get a better return for that investment.

Appreciate the responses.

gdavis

for what its worth,i would be 100 % positive,that a new A rated condensing gas boiler,correctly installed and commissioned with the proper controls will save customer money.and op,i would also advise you to look at some independent rgi's for upgrade,as you are,in my opinion going to get a better service,there are plenty of condensing boilers out there that have been installed incorrectly and rarely if ever go into full condensing mode,so a good installer is worth his proverbial !

JohnnieK

I am getting flyers in the door from company's say all sorts. One went as far as 40% saving on your gas bill which is total log's.
At the most with a new A rated boiler with full controls and an outside weather comp you would be looking at something around 20%

Just a boiler on it's own you would be looking at 5 to 10% depending on usage and a little bit more if you had a room stat.

By the way was that price for just a boiler only?

Joey the lips

I would not have a utilities company supply me with a boiler. Additionally i would not buy a boiler because of the saving they claim to make. Look at it this way. The adverage gas bill is 1200 euro per year. One third saving is 400 euro. The adverage boiler costs 2k supply and fit. That will take you 5 years to get pay back on just the difference and this assumes the boiler is as effeciently installed as the manufacturers say. The adverage difference in boilers is 10-15% and this does not justify the spend on a new boiler for efficiency only.

Buy the boiler because its too costly to repair the old one. Like you would do with an old car. Looking at the same analagy of cars, its like toyota trying to convince you that there new car will save you 1/3 rd on your petrol. You know this is based on cars not being serviced propperly.

Service your old boiler correctly and enjoy a foreign holiday instead of a new boiler.


Just my OPINION

kippy

Joey the lips wrote: »

I would not have a utilities company supply me with a boiler. Additionally i would not buy a boiler because of the saving they claim to make. Look at it this way. The adverage gas bill is 1200 euro per year. One third saving is 400 euro. The adverage boiler costs 2k supply and fit. That will take you 5 years to get pay back on just the difference and this assumes the boiler is as effeciently installed as the manufacturers say. The adverage difference in boilers is 10-15% and this does not justify the spend on a new boiler for efficiency only.

Buy the boiler because its too costly to repair the old one. Like you would do with an old car. Looking at the same analagy of cars, its like toyota trying to convince you that there new car will save you 1/3 rd on your petrol. You know this is based on cars not being serviced propperly.

Service your old boiler correctly and enjoy a foreign holiday instead of a new boiler.


Just my OPINION

Pretty much the same way that I would look at it.

iMADEtheBBC

gdavis wrote: »

for what its worth,i would be 100 % positive,that a new A rated condensing gas boiler,correctly installed and commissioned with the proper controls will save customer money.and op,i would also advise you to look at some independent rgi's for upgrade,as you are,in my opinion going to get a better service,there are plenty of condensing boilers out there that have been installed incorrectly and rarely if ever go into full condensing mode,so a good installer is worth his proverbial !

Thanks, I appreciate the response.

Can you link me to a site which will help me calculate the savings? Or do you have a formula I can apply?
This is the part that I don't see in any of the claims made. Yes I get the logic behind this but haven't yet seen any numbers to support it.

iMADEtheBBC

JohnnieK wrote: »

I am getting flyers in the door from company's say all sorts. One went as far as 40% saving on your gas bill which is total log's.
At the most with a new A rated boiler with full controls and an outside weather comp you would be looking at something around 20%

Just a boiler on it's own you would be looking at 5 to 10% depending on usage and a little bit more if you had a room stat.

By the way was that price for just a boiler only?

The price was for boiler only (install etc of course).

JohnnieK

iMADEtheBBC wrote: »

The price was for boiler only (install etc of course).

That's very high to be honest.
If there is nothing wrong with your current boiler then just keep having it serviced. As joey says if it becomes expensive to repair then replace is the better option.

antoinolachtnai

It basically depends on how old your old boiler is and what type it is. If it's pre-1992, you should certainly replace it. If it's pre-1997, you should think about it. 1997-2002, I'd have my doubts whether it is worth it if you don't have any other problems.

The older a boiler is, the higher the likelihood that it will suddenly fail at a critical time. This is as important as the other considerations.

To get modern boilers to heat hot water and central heating efficiently, you need your plumbing arranged a certain way (two 3/4 inch pipes to the hot tank, only for heating water). If you are doing other work in the house, you should try to get this done while the place is torn apart.

The reason is that these modern boilers need to operate at a lower temperature to heat the house at maximum efficiency. However, this temperature is too low to heat the hot water to a satisfactory temperature.

jolo

Don't want to hijack this thread(really) but my position is as follows -
Have a Vokera Mynute 28 SE which was installed 11 years ago. At the last service the service guy told me there was a 'slight' leak in the heat exchanger. He could tell this from small amt of rust inside. He said it shouldn't be a problem but to be aware of it - it might stay the same, it might get much worse. He wasn't offering to replace it so he didn't seem to be having us on. Heard some great things about new High Efficiency boilers and even greater things about new Combi boilers.

We've been 'a little' unlucky with plumbers in the last few years and guy who installed the (first part of the) system 11 years ago is retired. Someone recommended a plumber the other day so I rang him, told him the story and inquired about replacing the boiler. He says it may not be necessary to replace the whole boiler but only the heat exchanger. Mentioned a figure around 320 euros. Says if the boiler itself was to be replaced he wouldn't do that but could recommend someone who would - not sure I get why that is.

We're thinking if something needs to be done we'd prefer to sort it this time of the year than in January when we're stuck with nothing.

Was also told for a combi boiler the whole of the plumbing/piping needs to be redone(including taking up floors etc). This guy says most probably not. He also recommends keeping the tank and immersion 'just in case' which I kindof get.

I did question whether it's wise to replace the heat exchanger in an 11 year old boiler and he said that's really all that can go in them. And then said sometimes the fan can go too! He said it's a choice between 320 euros and 1500++ euros. I'm thinking is it 320 euros now and 1500++++ next year?

Any advice please?

JohnnieK

It's a tough one really. You could change the heat exchanger and it could last for another 11 years but then the pcb or the fan might go and being a Vokera I would go with the later.
My Vokera 16e had a blocked heat exchanger last year but I got it in time and flushed it out but it's getting to a stage now where I'm nursing it along. I'm changing mine to a combi next year and getting rid of the cylinder. I have a crappy Triton T90 I'm going to keep as back up.

The difference between you and me is I can do the work myself so there is a saving there straight off.
Your budget will unfortunately dictate things. If you have no means of control on your heating system like even a basic room stat then you will be waiting a long time for the pay back.