Kitchen extension query

pooper

Hope ye can help.
We are starting a kitchen extension next month and from what i can see it is exempt from planning. It is less than 40 sq metres and the peak of the roof will only go as far as the upstairs window sills. We also will have over 25sq metre of a garden left.

However our neighbour has now asked about the roof height as he is wondering about light getting to his garden. I personally dont see him losing much light but i have a few questions.

1. Does anyone know where we stand, if our neighbour does lose some light in his garden
2. I think i will still apply for "Declaration of Exemption" but where the hell would i go about getting both the "Site layout map" and scaled drawings of the development. (We dont have drawings at it is such a basic extension).

I also need ordnance survey maps but will get these online.

jameshayes

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/planning_permission/planning_perm_altering_a_house.html

says that you can build an extension "at the back or side of a house so long as it does not extend out in front of the building line of the house and does not exceed four metres in height (if it has a tiled/slated pitched roof) or three metres (if it has any other roof type)."

pooper

Thanks for that.

Yeah,. as far as i can see, we are within our rights to go ahead without planning. However, with our neighbour enquiring about his light, i called the planning dept and spoke to a complete wagon and all she would tell me is that i should apply for this Declaration of exemption! €80 for this on top of €71 for the OSI maps! We are going to go ahead and start work anyway, but going to apply for this in the meanwhile.

I just dont know if the neighbour can turn around after and complain about losing light. And i havent a clue where to get the site layout map

Corkblowin

Go online - osi.ie - you can buy maps there and they can be downloaded in pdf format - just remember to print them at the correct page size or they won't be to scale!!

As for drawings of your extension you'll just have to get it done somehow - doesn't need to be hugely detailed, but enough for an assessment to be made.

pooper

Great. Thanks for that.

The info from the Cork County Council is looking for:
1. Cover Letter
2. OSI maps
3. Site layout map
4. Scaled Drawings of development
3. €80 fee.

1, 2, 4, 5 and all ok. I can manage that. But i assume 3.- Site laoyout map - is different to the OSI maps. And thats where i am stuck .

Corkblowin

If you're in Cork you can buy the maps in central bureau services - they're beside the HSE ambulance base beside the Kinsale Road Roundabout (opposite smyths toys).

The site layout plan is just a dimension survey of your site - front and back gardens and the house footprint. You could even enlarge the os map and trace it - making sure the dims match whats on the ground.

I know you're trying to be careful, but if you're exempt then you're exempt and your neighbour has no case. Once you comply with the conditions of the Planning and Development Regulations you're fine. I've pasted them below but you can get the full regulation on http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2


1. (a) Where the house has not been extended previously, the floor area of any such extension shall not exceed 40 square metres.

(b) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is terraced or semi-detached, the floor area of any extension above ground level shall not exceed 12 square metres.

(c) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is detached, the floor area of any extension above ground level shall not exceed 20 square metres.

2. (a) Where the house has been extended previously, the floor area of any such extension, taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 40 square metres.

(b) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is terraced or semi-detached and has been extended previously, the floor area of any extension above ground level taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions above ground level constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 12 square metres.

(c) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is detached and has been extended previously, the floor area of any extension above ground level, taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions above ground level constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 20 square metres.

3. Any above ground floor extension shall be a distance of not less than 2 metres from any party boundary.

4. (a) Where the rear wall of the house does not include a gable, the height of the walls of any such extension shall not exceed the height of the rear wall of the house.

(b) Where the rear wall of the house includes a gable, the height of the walls of any such extension shall not exceed the height of the side walls of the house.

(c) The height of the highest part of the roof of any such extension shall not exceed, in the case of a flat roofed extension, the height of the eaves or parapet, as may be appropriate, or, in any other case, shall not exceed the height of the highest part of the roof of the dwelling.

5. The construction or erection of any such extension to the rear of the house shall not reduce the area of private open space, reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of the house, to the rear of the house to less than 25 square metres.

6. (a) Any window proposed at ground level in any such extension shall not be less than 1 metre from the boundary it faces.

(b) Any window proposed above ground level in any such extension shall not be less than 11 metres from the boundary it faces.

(c) Where the house is detached and the floor area of the extension above ground level exceeds 12 square metres, any window proposed at above ground level shall not be less than 11 metres from the boundary it faces.

7. The roof of any extension shall not be used as a balcony or roof garden.

pooper

Thanks for that. Yeah, weve looked over that a million times and we are definitely within our rights to build without planning. But dont want someone to turn around after and land us with a bombshell!

Oh the stress!!

Thanks for all the advice

BryanF

pooper wrote: »

Hope ye can help.
We are starting a kitchen extension next month and from what i can see it is exempt from planning. It is less than 40 sq metres and the peak of the roof will only go as far as the upstairs window sills. We also will have over 25sq metre of a garden left.

However our neighbour has now asked about the roof height as he is wondering about light getting to his garden. I personally dont see him losing much light but i have a few questions.

1. Does anyone know where we stand, if our neighbour does lose some light in his garden
2. I think i will still apply for "Declaration of Exemption" but where the hell would i go about getting both the "Site layout map" and scaled drawings of the development. (We dont have drawings at it is such a basic extension).

I also need ordnance survey maps but will get these online.

1. the nature of exempted development means the right to light is left vague. have you considered a flat roof to reduce over shadowing of your neighbours property? good design can help minimise overshadowing.
2. re site layout see page 109. it does worry me that you're going to build without any drawings.. what measures have been taken to mitigate any structural implicants to this work? this type of work is general done by an architect or arch technician and perhaps that's why the council 'wagon' did not seem helpful, but going on your reaction to the exemption administration costs, you might be best to try do this yourself. good luck

muffler

jameshayes wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/planning_permission/planning_perm_altering_a_house.html

says that you can build an extension "at the back or side of a house so long as it does not extend out in front of the building line of the house and does not exceed four metres in height (if it has a tiled/slated pitched roof) or three metres (if it has any other roof type)."

Thats a garage/shed you are referring to and not a domestic extension.

pooper

Yeah, thats right muffler.

(c) The height of the highest part of the roof of any such extension shall not exceed, in the case of a flat roofed extension, the height of the eaves or parapet, as may be appropriate, or, in any other case, shall not exceed the height of the highest part of the roof of the dwelling.

jameshayes

muffler wrote: »

Thats a garage/shed you are referring to and not a domestic extension.

Hmm, i didn't catch that on the CI site, whoops!

And what defines a domestic extension? As in, if I have a long garage but use one end for a utility room does that constitute as domestic?

muffler

jameshayes wrote: »

Hmm, i didn't catch that on the CI site, whoops!

And what defines a domestic extension? As in, if I have a long garage but use one end for a utility room does that constitute as domestic?

If you propose to "mix 'n match" domestic house extensions and domestic garages/stores then you need to comply with the conditions as set out in the regulations to render the development exempt.

For example you can build a domestic garage to the side of your house without permission subject to certain conditions. However if you then use part of the garage as a utility room then the goal posts are moved as a utility room is classed as a "domestic extension" and not a "domestic garage" and you cant build a utility room to the side of the house without planning permission.

Doing the above to the rear of a dwelling house is fine, subject to the usual conditions.

jameshayes

but on CI it says;

Converting a garage attached to the rear or side of the house to domestic use so long as it has a floor area of less than 40 square metres. Building a garage at the back or side of a house so long as it does not extend out in front of the building line of the house and does not exceed four metres in height (if it has a tiled/slated pitched roof) or three metres (if it has any other roof type). This building will be exempt from planning permission once the floor area is limited to 25 square metres. Garages or sheds to the side of the house must match the finish of the house and may not be lived in, used for commercial purposes or for keeping pigs, poultry, pigeons, ponies or horses.

muffler

Once again they are very different type scenarios so you just cant pick bits of information at random and assume it applies to every instance.

There are rules regarding the conversion of a garage and then there are different rules for building a garage in order to leave them both exempt.

Stick with the construction and planning forum here and you'll learn a lot more.

Mellor

pooper wrote: »

Great. Thanks for that.

The info from the Cork County Council is looking for:
1. Cover Letter
2. OSI maps
3. Site layout map
4. Scaled Drawings of development
3. €80 fee.

1, 2, 4, 5 and all ok. I can manage that. But i assume 3.- Site laoyout map - is different to the OSI maps. And thats where i am stuck .

How are you getting "Scaled Drawings of development"? As who ever produces them will no no trouble putting together a site layout map ove they have the OSI map.

Right to light isn't a planning issue. It's a civil issue. But getting Section 5 declaration is the right way to go about things when you've now neighbours raising concerns. It might en up cost a few hundred, but thats pretty small compared to the thousands you'll spend on building, and tiny compare to the 100s of thousands your home is worth. It's the biggest investment for most people. A few hundred for a section 5 is nothing to protect that investment.

jameshayes wrote: »

but on CI it says;

Can build a garage to the side up to 25 sq.m
Can build a rear extension up to 40sq.m
And convert an existing garage to the side up to 40.sq.m

3 separate situations.

dwiseman

Just finished an extension to the rear of our house and our neighbour brought up the exact same issue and threathened to go to the planning dept. After checking this out thoroughly I can confirm that the right to light does not exist in ireland while it does in wales and england. Once you make sure you do not breach any of the planning regs for exempted development you will be fine.

sydthebeat

rights to light does exist, only its incredibly onerous to prove.

see the law reform commissions report here, specially pages 39-41

Mellor

And even when proven its often a civil issue, not a planning issue.

dwiseman

sydthebeat wrote: »

rights to light does exist, only its incredibly onerous to prove.

see the law reform commissions report here, specially pages 39-41

That document came up when we were researching this and both my solicitor and a firm of architects both agreed that there was no issue with a right to light. I also spoke to my local council who told me that a right to light only becomes an issue with a two storey extension which is exempt from planning permission with regards to the height of the extension in relation to the position of your adjoining neighbours nearest groundfloor window. So build away and make sure to follow the planning regs. (and by the way it took the council 3 days to come back to me as they had not heard of the right to light!)