4" door frame

syboit

Hi,

My parents would like to change their internal doors. However their current reddeal frames (which were in the house when they bought it) are only 4" thick, so it seems they were cut down to fit in.
They are looking at getting engineered oak or walnut ones but they are all 5 1/4" . They guys at the shop said its normal for this and to cut their frame in the middle and then hide the cut with the stop piece that is seperate.

anyone done this before ?

One shot on kill

I couldn't see that been very easy or durable myself. I personally wouldn't dream of doing it this way.

I would buy some planks and machine up my own frames. You could prob get a local woodworking shop run them for you.

recipio

Got to agree with one shot. There is as much work ( probably more ) ripping and re-joining to exact standards as machining new stock.
I'd say hawever there would be a considerable cost difference between oak and walnut.
Are the doors being made to match. ?

galwaydude18

recipio wrote: »

Got to agree with one shot. There is as much work ( probably more ) ripping and re-joining to exact standards as machining new stock.
I'd say hawever there would be a considerable cost difference between oak and walnut.
Are the doors being made to match. ?

Ripping and joining the frame behind the door stop will be three times as much work than if you got frames made up in one piece so therefore three times the labour and ultimately three times the cost

syboit

recipio wrote: »

Got to agree with one shot. There is as much work ( probably more ) ripping and re-joining to exact standards as machining new stock.
I'd say hawever there would be a considerable cost difference between oak and walnut.
Are the doors being made to match. ?

thanks, doors will be standard 32" x 80" bought off the shelf (engineered). They did get quotes for solid oak frame made and they were coming out at around €170 a door, and would then need to be varnished afterwards.

teckel

How much are the engineered one's your talking about??

syboit

teckel wrote: »

How much are the engineered one's your talking about??

they were coming in around 70euro

teckel

There is a couple of ways around this.The best way is.
I assume there is architrave. You can rip them down to the 4" and keep the cut to the stop side. When the architrave goes on it will cover the cut.

galwaydude18

teckel wrote: »

There is a couple of ways around this.The best way is.
I assume there is architrave. You can rip them down to the 4" and keep the cut to the stop side. When the architrave goes on it will cover the cut.

It won't completly cover the cut as there will be a reveal around the door frame where the architrave is. The reveal is usually 6 or 8mm. I always use the 8mm reveal.

teckel

galwaydude18 wrote: »

It won't completly cover the cut as there will be a reveal around the door frame where the architrave is. The reveal is usually 6 or 8mm. I always use the 8mm reveal.

Architrave is kept flush with frame on that side....

galwaydude18

teckel wrote: »

Architrave is kept flush with frame on that side....

That is an awful way to fit architrave. Unless its glued and pinned very well the joint will crack as the timber expands and contracts! Also it's terrible fitting practice to put architrave flush on the door frame.

teckel

galwaydude18 wrote: »

That is an awful way to fit architrave. Unless its glued and pinned very well the joint will crack as the timber expands and contracts! Also it's terrible fitting practice to put architrave flush on the door frame.

You know what your talking about alright. :rolleyes::rolleyes:...and architrave fitted flush with door frames for hundreds of years.

galwaydude18

Iv never seen architrave fitted flush on any job iv ever been on.

teckel

galwaydude18 wrote: »

Iv never seen architrave fitted flush on any job iv ever been on.

So just because you never seen it done means it has'nt been done.

the keen edge

teckel wrote: »

There is a couple of ways around this.The best way is.
I assume there is architrave. You can rip them down to the 4" and keep the cut to the stop side. When the architrave goes on it will cover the cut.

That wont work; or at least it wouldn't leave an acceptable finish.

If the frames are engineered, ripping them will expose the pieced and glued up structure of the frame that had been veneered over.

teckel wrote: »

So just because you never seen it done means it has'nt been done.

It shouldn't be done, and indeed architrave can not be fitted flush to the frame edge where the hinges are housed in to the frame, at least not without then also rebating/ housing the hinges into the architrave as well.

You may have seen it attempted, however it is as galwaydude said terrible practice, and frankly any carpenter who would do so isn't a tradesman.

teckel

the keen edge wrote: »

That wont work; or at least it wouldn't leave an acceptable finish.

If the frames are engineered, ripping them will expose the pieced and glued up structure of the frame that had been veneered over.



It shouldn't be done, and indeed architrave can not be fitted flush to the frame edge where the hinges are housed in to the frame, at least not without then also rebating/ housing the hinges into the architrave as well.

You may have seen it attempted, however it is as galwaydude said terrible practice, and frankly any carpenter who would do so isn't a tradesman.

Obviously ye lads have never done anything away from the norm. Your so called 8mm reveal all round working on mass produced housing estates.
I cannot believe that ye can't get your head around this. It is not kept flush on the hinge side only the stop side. Read my post again. This is the problem with the modern day carpenter...afraid to step away from the norm and try and work out a problem instead of making it handy on themselves telling a person to go and get frames machined up at a cost of €100 more expensive than the engineered ones

galwaydude18

teckel wrote: »

the keen edge wrote: »

That wont work; or at least it wouldn't leave an acceptable finish.

If the frames are engineered, ripping them will expose the pieced and glued up structure of the frame that had been veneered over.



It shouldn't be done, and indeed architrave can not be fitted flush to the frame edge where the hinges are housed in to the frame, at least not without then also rebating/ housing the hinges into the architrave as well.

You may have seen it attempted, however it is as galwaydude said terrible practice, and frankly any carpenter who would do so isn't a tradesman.

Obviously ye lads have never done anything away from the norm. Your so called 8mm reveal all round working on mass produced housing estates.
I cannot believe that ye can't get your head around this. It is not kept flush on the hinge side only the stop side. Read my post again. This is the problem with the modern day carpenter...afraid to step away from the norm and try and work out a problem instead of making it handy on themselves telling a person to go and get frames machined up at a cost of €100 more expensive than the engineered ones

So you would be happy to have the reveal on the hinge side and fit it flush on the stop side?

I don't no any client that would pay me if I did that!! I never said it can't be done. I said its poor fitting practice to fit it flush.

teckel

galwaydude18 wrote: »

So you would be happy to have the reveal on the hinge side and fit it flush on the stop side?

I don't no any client that would pay me if I did that!! I never said it can't be done. I said its poor fitting practice to fit it flush.

How do you know if you have not encountered the problem..

the keen edge

teckel wrote: »

Obviously ye lads have never done anything away from the norm. Your so called 8mm reveal all round working on mass produced housing estates.
I cannot believe that ye can't get your head around this. It is not kept flush on the hinge side only the stop side. Read my post again. This is the problem with the modern day carpenter...afraid to step away from the norm and try and work out a problem instead of making it handy on themselves telling a person to go and get frames machined up at a cost of €100 more expensive than the engineered ones

You are missing the point completely.

I'm not to sure what you mean by stepping away from the norm; although in this instance it sounds like "sure it will be grand".

Suggesting that keeping the architrave flush to the frame edge is working the problem out is in my opinion a lazy half-arsed solution, that shows a lack of knowledge of the very basic structure that the architrave-frame joint comprises.
In also hints at a complete lack of appreciation for the even the most rudimentary of architectural joinery design.

And so I think there is little more that I can add to our discussion.

teckel

the keen edge wrote: »

You are missing the point completely.

I'm not to sure what you mean by stepping away from the norm; although in this instance it sounds like "sure it will be grand".

Suggesting that keeping the architrave flush to the frame edge is working the problem out is in my opinion a lazy half-arsed solution, that shows a lack of knowledge of the very basic structure that the architrave-frame joint comprises.
In also hints at a complete lack of appreciation for the even the most rudimentary of architectural joinery design.

And so I think there is little more that I can add to our discussion.

What is architectural joinery??

the keen edge

teckel wrote: »

What is architectural joinery??

Look, if a single 5 1/4" frame had already erroneously been bought, couldn't be exchange or returned and the OP was looking for a way of working with what they have on site, then compromise may have to be made regarding joinery details.

However advising someone to go and buy maybe 10+ wrong sized frames, and then attempt to hid that problem by fitting architrave around those frame in a way which is wrong both in structural and architectural detail is not a recommendation any professional worth their salt would make.

Suggesting that not going along with what is clearly a mediocre solution "is a problem with the modern day carpenter" is baffling.
Here its not even a case of finding a balance between cost and quality; it about considering the simplest of design challenges at the onset.

teckel

the keen edge wrote: »

Look, if a single 5 1/4" frame had already erroneously been bought, couldn't be exchange or returned and the OP was looking for a way of working with what they have on site, then compromise may have to be made regarding joinery details.

However advising someone to go and buy maybe 10+ wrong sized frames, and then attempt to hid that problem by fitting architrave around those frame in a way which is wrong both in structural and architectural detail is not a recommendation any professional worth their salt would make.

Suggesting that not going along with what is clearly a mediocre solution "is a problem with the modern day carpenter" is baffling.
Here its not even a case of finding a balance between cost and quality; it about considering the simplest of design challenges at the onset.

10+ door frames at a cost of €1000 extra than engineered ones. Come on.
And how is it wrong structurally and architecturally????
You really need to start thinking outside of the box.
And you still haven't answered my last question....