Legal length for grass/"weeds"???

Cussypat1974

I am a homeowner and have a wild garden, which I love. It has roses, lavender and fuschia which are cultivated, but the rest is wild flowers, wild grasses and what most people call "weeds". I love it. I trim it back in the autumn and early spring to encourage new growth of the flowers, as otherwise the hardier grasses would take over. this spring, I had a broken foot so didn't strim. I couldn't walk and was not about to use power tools whilst on crutches! I am particularly fond of my nettles, which I eat when they are young, and my other yokes on stalks whose names I do not know but love the pretty flowers. I have a fantastic colony of insects and molluscs and have found very odd and interesting little creatures amongst the foliage, which are always a source of delight to me.
Last week a community warden called and told me to clear my beloved garden. As I am a sap, I agreed and she told me I had ten days to do so, and then she would be back. she said there had been complaints and mentioned litter. the "litter" consisted of of=ne remaining piece of metal from an old gate I had had cleared years ago, which was slightly poking out from under a hedge. I will remove that no problem on day ten lol! It is honestly only noticeable when you are already in my garden, but I have no problem at all with removing it. It just got left behind after the clean-up by accident.
my question is, does a community warden, or anyone else, have the authority to FORCE me to destroy my beloved garden? if I have to strim it now (I really do not want to at this time of year as it is a haven for wildlife) what length can I strim it to, legally?
It all seems nuts to me and i posted earlier on a different thread which subsequently closed. surely I cannot be forced to kill my garden wildlife? Last year I found an elephant hawk moth for God's sake! there is no management company involved and if a resident's association exists I know nothing of it..... have been here since 2003/2004.

the_syco

Cussypat1974 wrote: »

community warden

Who employs them?

somefeen

Sounds like a load of bollox, leave it alone and if they come around again tell them were to stick it.

mikemac1

Sounds like the Tidy Towns
Local areas will have committees


Awards are in September so the villages get organized now, that's why she gave you a deadline

However due to the fact that you're getting a deadline and also your neighbours were gossiping about you but never bothered to knock on your door I'd tell them where to go
Every village has a self appointed busybody, congrats you've just met yours

Tidy Towns is fantastic and people voluteer and get involved
But there is a way to talk to people, you encourage, not dictate
I'm feeling insulted just reading your post

psicic

Hmmm.... wild gardens are cool. They increase insect wildlife in an area which is a really positive thing for all the surrounding gardens. In this day and age, it would be a pretty ignorant person complaining about a wild garden - assuming, of course, we're not talking about a Trebus situation.

Can't really help you with your original query, but, in my opinion, a verbal instruction isn't really reasonable. Did they give you anything in writing to tell you what law (or local bye-law) they were acting under? Are you in a new-ish estate with a management company? Did they present their authorisation to you? Did they just say 'clean it up... OR ELSE' or did they actually threaten a fine and/or court?

Also, what county are you living in?

As far as I know, 'community warden' can mean different things in different places. In some counties it's a real thing, in others it's people who have decided to make themselves sound officious - ala the Tidy Towns mentioned by mikemac1.

In the counties where they are a real thing run by county-councils, I think they are an 'early interevention' sort of deal. They come and chat to people to try and get some sort of desired result. They usually have a pretty broad remit - covering everything from litter laws, to public health to parking laws.

I don't want to give any bad advice or sound like I'm intimately familar with community wardens or their powers - I'm not - but I will say three things:

1. it is my belief that there'd want to be a serious issue or deficiency on my part for me to take instruction from anybody else about what I do on my property - e.g. if I was doing something that was a health hazard. Shove your 'Tidy Towns' if that's how they approach things.
2. if somebody is empowered to enforce a laws or to issue fines, they should have a valid ID to present - basically their 'warrant' authorising them to act. In the course of my job, I have a warrant to act under a specific set of legislation. If I don't present this when performing certain tasks, or only present an incomplete version of this warrant, any action I take is immediately invalid. It is not rude or in any ways incorrect to ask to see this while somebody is performing their duties.
3. if I am being officially directed to do something, then I would like it in writing - I would suspect that may suddenly change what you're being asked to do and why.

Graces7

Oh these dreadful people! My heart goes out to you; it really does.

A random thought... A sign, saying "WIldflower Garden" or "Garden of the Senes"; they are very "in " just now! Make it a speciality. "Organic Herb garden"

Or "Butterfly garden/refuge"

If you saw my quarter acre you would know how I feel, and this is why I live surrounded by fields and fight the landlord/farmer re pesticides etc.

I would padlock the gate when day ten arrives.


But, seriously, go to Citizen's Info and ask them what the real legalities are. I doubt they have any real powers. Trying it on they are. Don't let them do that. Be eccentric! You can probably tie them up in paperwork for months anyways. And enjoy it!

kildare.17hmr

Tell them to feck off if they come back, its your garden and they cant make you do anything with it not matter what they say

Jesus Shaves

Remove the "litter" and leave the garden as is, community wardens are employed by the council
Ring your local council to ask what the community wardens duties are

Gurgle

OP, Get yourself a rocking chair and a shotgun and practice the phrase 'Get off my property' in a slow Texas drawl.

Everything inside your boundary is yours, once you're not re-purposing the site or posing a danger to anyone you can do with it as you will.

donalg1

I cant imagine a community warden having any authority within the boundary of your property, they are employed by the LA's and have duties such as the issuing of parking tickets and telling people to remove cars from the road side that are for sale and you see around the place.

But its your house, your garden, your property so they cant tell you what to do with it. I would ask them under what piece of legislation they are instructing you to ruin your garden. Have a look at this legislation then and you will know if they are within their remit when telling you to do this. I certainly wouldnt touch the garden until you get some more clarification.

I have heard of people being told to stop cutting their trees as its nesting season which is understandable as it is there to protect birds, so asking you to cut your garden is asking the opposite of this law so I would definitely be seeking further clarification of the legislation.

Graces7

donalg1 wrote: »

I cant imagine a community warden having any authority within the boundary of your property, they are employed by the LA's and have duties such as the issuing of parking tickets and telling people to remove cars from the road side that are for sale and you see around the place.

But its your house, your garden, your property so they cant tell you what to do with it. I would ask them under what piece of legislation they are instructing you to ruin your garden. Have a look at this legislation then and you will know if they are within their remit when telling you to do this. I certainly wouldnt touch the garden until you get some more clarification.

I have heard of people being told to stop cutting their trees as its nesting season which is understandable as it is there to protect birds, so asking you to cut your garden is asking the opposite of this law so I would definitely be seeking further clarification of the legislation.[/QUOTE]

Great idea; even famers are not allowed to burn scrub etc in the nesting season... Oh you can keep them soooo busy with paperwork! And enjoy it!

GreenLady

Roughly speaking hedges and trees can't be cut during nesting season from March to November - exact dates are on the Dept Ag website. The county council can make you pick up litter. The department of Ag can make you cut noxious weeds - that's stuff like ragwort, giant hemlock, japanese knotgrass - it isn't nettles.
I'm with the put a sign up - "Wildlife garden - home to x species of insect, frogs etc. Please contact my facebook page for tour details" or some such. Educate 'em

GreenLady

Do the sign thing and Tidy Towns judges will actually award extra points these days :-)

Graces7

There is also the Habitat scheme... Get money to set aside land for a natural wild life habitat... Government scheme..

Enjoy it all! These people really cannot be taken seriously.

GreenLady

There isn't any money in the Habitat scheme - a private house would have to be extremely lucky to get a grant

Marcusm

Even in the UK, an untidy garden is not a litter enforcement issue (assuming no litter in the garden) but is at most a planning enforcement issue. I'd ask to see your community warden again and explain your gardening ideas to him/her. I would be very surprised if, as a local council employee (assuming not simply a local busybody), they see themselves as decision mAkers on what is ultimately an aesthetic decision.

the_syco

GreenLady wrote: »

There isn't any money in the Habitat scheme - a private house would have to be extremely lucky to get a grant

Apply anyway, just so that the OP can tell the CW that they've applied next time the CW call around :P

Graces7

Marcusm wrote: »

Even in the UK, an untidy garden is not a litter enforcement issue (assuming no litter in the garden) but is at most a planning enforcement issue. I'd ask to see your community warden again and explain your gardening ideas to him/her. I would be very surprised if, as a local council employee (assuming not simply a local busybody), they see themselves as decision mAkers on what is ultimately an aesthetic decision.

CW may well be the local busybody.... perfect for the job!

GreenLady

Graces7 wrote: »

CW may well be the local busybody.... perfect for the job!

Often is. But it has just occurred to me that that there are quite a lot of recently built estates around the country that do have destroy all native life clauses in the deeds because some idiots actually want to live in American style developments and you may have bought in one of them. Before you take the shotgun to the community warden maybe you should just check that you didn't agree to mow the lawn twice a day when you bought the house. Of course in America people are (at last) beginning to move away from this kind of idiocy but that's them and this is us and if they did it in America twenty years ago that must be what we should aspire to now. But I'd better not get started down that route:)

Graces7

GreenLady wrote: »

Often is. But it has just occurred to me that that there are quite a lot of recently built estates around the country that do have destroy all native life clauses in the deeds because some idiots actually want to live in American style developments and you may have bought in one of them. Before you take the shotgun to the community warden maybe you should just check that you didn't agree to mow the lawn twice a day when you bought the house. Of course in America people are (at last) beginning to move away from this kind of idiocy but that's them and this is us and if they did it in America twenty years ago that must be what we should aspire to now. But I'd better not get started down that route:)

Incredible... But then in rural areas, many of the new palaces have huge rocks as garden features and growing vegetables and fruit is seen as a retrograde step.

They of course pay for the rocks....

Sure the cw would have stated if there is that kind of legislation; this is the old conform or else brigade.. Do it our way,,,, be like the herd.

They would have a conniption here; I have old tyres as containers up the driveway.... Long live individuality and wild life,,,

GreenLady

don't suppose they'd like my paint pot and mayonnaise tub containers or the pallets holding up raised beds either

ressem

Provided that there aren't noxious weeds that must be destroyed...

Ragwort, Thistle, Dock, Common Barberry, Male Wild Hop and Spring Wild Oat are scheduled as noxious weeds under the Noxious Weeds Act 1936.

and no litter visible as per Litter act 1997

Litter and private property
The owner or occupier of property that can be seen from a public place, is also obliged to keep the property free of litter. This means that any outdoor area on your property visible from a public place must be kept free of litter. Failure to keep your property free of litter can result in a fine or prosecution by your local authority.

Then politely tell the warden that you have complied with the litter act '97 as requested. You are not obliged to strim the grass to a height. If she has other issues she needs to point out the act and statute that gives her that power.
(I am not a legal expert)

Cussypat1974

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!
I am DEF going with the sign! it was a community warden who I now know has the power to ask for dog licences as it cost me 80 quid yesterday ha ha! Kinda pissed me off as 3 of 4 dogs were destined for the pound which would have cost them more, and I HATE giving money to pounds who kill dogs (but give loads to rescues), but hey, it is the law right?
None of my garden is encroaching on others, none is damaging anything and it is bloody long grass! So thank you and they can get lost. 2 weeks ago a tidy towns flyer came through the door so I reckon it is them....... or a wagon i had a row with recently lol.
i am moving in July/august and will strim it all but have to figure out the best time for the insects. it is def not now as the froghoppers would dry out without their foamy stuff. was thinking this week of going out with the shears and cutting really carefully...... but then it rained and the molluscs came out and no way am I hurting them!
not many peeps appreciate slugs but i am very fond of them. it'd be awful to slice them with a strimmer! I will do it in autumn...... they can eff off till then and I am putting that wildlife garden sign up this weekend. thank you and I will let you know what the warden says. she is only doing her job in fairness...... BUT....... they annoy me for grass and licences but ignore the dogs straying and dog fighting competitions!?!?!?!? I ask you........

Graces7

Cussypat1974 wrote: »

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!
I am DEF going with the sign! it was a community warden who I now know has the power to ask for dog licences as it cost me 80 quid yesterday ha ha! Kinda pissed me off as 3 of 4 dogs were destined for the pound which would have cost them more, and I HATE giving money to pounds who kill dogs (but give loads to rescues), but hey, it is the law right?
None of my garden is encroaching on others, none is damaging anything and it is bloody long grass! So thank you and they can get lost. 2 weeks ago a tidy towns flyer came through the door so I reckon it is them....... or a wagon i had a row with recently lol.
i am moving in July/august and will strim it all but have to figure out the best time for the insects. it is def not now as the froghoppers would dry out without their foamy stuff. was thinking this week of going out with the shears and cutting really carefully...... but then it rained and the molluscs came out and no way am I hurting them!
not many peeps appreciate slugs but i am very fond of them. it'd be awful to slice them with a strimmer! I will do it in autumn...... they can eff off till then and I am putting that wildlife garden sign up this weekend. thank you and I will let you know what the warden says. she is only doing her job in fairness...... BUT....... they annoy me for grass and licences but ignore the dogs straying and dog fighting competitions!?!?!?!? I ask you........

If youre opening a slug haven, I can send you thousands... or maybe millions,,,

:rolleyes:

Not joking!

GreenLady

I think slugs are amazing and beautiful animals - in their place. Which is not in my veg garden but I've got plenty of wild space where they can go play. If they eat my lettuce I exterminate with extreme prejudice.

But on when to strim - if you wait until the last week in July/first week in August wild flower and grass seeds will be ripe. Then you can strim down when a few days fine weather is expected, leave it to lie a few days for seeds to fall, and then rake it up to mulch any plants that would be happier for well fed roots. Then the seeds will germinate nicely and the grass green up in a way acceptable to nosy neighbours. Tell them you are making a traditional hay meadow - which is what you will be doing and you'll be encouraging the wildlife that goes with it. Seed eating birds will love you for it too.

Victor

Cussypat1974 wrote: »

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!
I am DEF going with the sign! it was a community warden who I now know has the power to ask for dog licences as it cost me 80 quid yesterday ha ha! Kinda pissed me off as 3 of 4 dogs were destined for the pound which would have cost them more, and I HATE giving money to pounds who kill dogs (but give loads to rescues), but hey, it is the law right?
None of my garden is encroaching on others, none is damaging anything and it is bloody long grass! So thank you and they can get lost. 2 weeks ago a tidy towns flyer came through the door so I reckon it is them....... or a wagon i had a row with recently lol.
i am moving in July/august and will strim it all but have to figure out the best time for the insects. it is def not now as the froghoppers would dry out without their foamy stuff. was thinking this week of going out with the shears and cutting really carefully...... but then it rained and the molluscs came out and no way am I hurting them!
not many peeps appreciate slugs but i am very fond of them. it'd be awful to slice them with a strimmer! I will do it in autumn...... they can eff off till then and I am putting that wildlife garden sign up this weekend. thank you and I will let you know what the warden says. she is only doing her job in fairness...... BUT....... they annoy me for grass and licences but ignore the dogs straying and dog fighting competitions!?!?!?!? I ask you........

No need for the snideness

Cussypat1974

snideness? I was not intentionally being snide at all!

Cussypat1974

anyway, I send an email or 3 to the tidy town brigade and got no reply but have been left alone since. I was very nice, appreciated their work, respected their role, but asked them to also respect me. and told them that I wanted this to be pleasant but was willing to go to the european court of justice as vegan rights have been protected along with religious rights since about 2010. so they would only forge me to cut my garden if they could win a case in Europe. I made that quite clear, politely. And have not had a reply. or a return visit from the warden.
and today I filmed 2 hoverflies having sex while a pervy spider watched......in my garden......

the_syco

Cussypat1974 wrote: »

today I filmed 2 hoverflies having sex while a pervy spider watched......in my garden......

Not weird at all... pac: Put it on youtube, and link it in a thread in http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1501 - I'm sure they'll be interested in that sort of thing :P

Graces7

Wondering, from another board, if you still have 40 cats?

deandean

OP, refer to Fingal CoCo's recent policy 'Growing Places'

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/CommunityRecreationandAmenitiesDepartment/Parks/FingalGrowingPlaces/

They cut a border 2 metres wide around any grassy area and give a great spiel as to why they don't cut the rest.

However - TBH - if you are attracting attention from locals and the community warden your garden is probably a right kip.

In the interest of fair debate would you be able to photos a couple of photos here?

Victor

Graces7 wrote: »

Wondering, from another board, if you still have 40 cats?

Lets not go there.

Graces7

Victor wrote: »

Lets not go there.

Graces7

deandean wrote: »

OP, refer to Fingal CoCo's recent policy 'Growing Places'

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/CommunityRecreationandAmenitiesDepartment/Parks/FingalGrowingPlaces/

They cut a border 2 metres wide around any grassy area and give a great spiel as to why they don't cut the rest.

However - TBH - if you are attracting attention from locals and the community warden your garden is probably a right kip.

In the interest of fair debate would you be able to photos a couple of photos here?

Not a constructive or fair comment. Wild life gardens are a beauty but not to everyone's liking. Live and let live. Trying to enforce some kind of conformity like this is appalling. My large garden is wilderness in places and a has a beauty all of its own. It is also productive. Thankfully we live out in the wilds so are free of these petty bourgeois standards that afflict so many uncreative folk.

Your last sentence makes no sense; a wild life all on its own!

pburns

Graces7 wrote: »

If you saw my quarter acre you would know how I feel, and this is why I live surrounded by fields and fight the landlord/farmer re pesticides etc.

...You can probably tie them up in paperwork for months anyways. And enjoy it!

On what grounds do you 'fight' the neighbouring farmer for spraying pesticide on his crops. You haven't a leg to stand on.

Graces7 wrote: »

Oh you can keep them soooo busy with paperwork! And enjoy it!

Graces7 wrote: »

Enjoy it all! These people really cannot be taken seriously.

Graces7 wrote: »

CW may well be the local busybody.... perfect for the job!

Is this for real?!?

Graces7 wrote: »

Incredible... But then in rural areas, many of the new palaces have huge rocks as garden features and growing vegetables and fruit is seen as a retrograde step.

They of course pay for the rocks....

Sure the cw would have stated if there is that kind of legislation; this is the old conform or else brigade.. Do it our way,,,, be like the herd.

They would have a conniption here; I have old tyres as containers up the driveway.... Long live individuality and wild life,,,

As far as I can see locally most people living in these 'new palaces' have a lot of interest in growing vegetables and planting fruit trees. Not merely for economic reasons but to have fresh veg available and as an activity and stimulus for their kids.

Graces7 wrote: »

Live and let live. Trying to enforce some kind of conformity like this is appalling. My large garden is wilderness in places and a has a beauty all of its own. It is also productive. Thankfully we live out in the wilds so are free of these petty bourgeois standards that afflict so many uncreative folk.

I have my own reservations about over-reliance on pesticides and different perceptions on what constitutes 'beauty' but TBH you come across as having a serious attitude problem and some sort of inverted snobbery about people who are not as 'creative' :rolleyes: as you.

Maybe you should follow your own advice and live and let live instead of trying to stoke up trouble.

Graces7

pburns wrote: »

On what grounds do you 'fight' the neighbouring farmer for spraying pesticide on his crops. You haven't a leg to stand on.







Is this for real?!?



As far as I can see locally most people living in these 'new palaces' have a lot of interest in growing vegetables and planting fruit trees. Not merely for economic reasons but to have fresh veg available and as an activity and stimulus for their kids.



I have my own reservations about over-reliance on pesticides and different perceptions on what constitutes 'beauty' but TBH you come across as having a serious attitude problem and some sort of inverted snobbery about people who are not as 'creative' :rolleyes: as you.

Maybe you should follow your own advice and live and let live instead of trying to stoke up trouble.

What an aggressive and hostile post. No intention of responding to such.

Have a nice day!

Cussypat1974

Nope, I never had 40 but had about 30 at one stage! have about 20 now, about 12 go outside. but the cats are not the problem, there are so many strays and ferals breeding around here. what I do is trap and neuter them to stop them breeding. and i feed whoever comes looking for food lol.
someone stole my sign! I am not kidding! this is getting weirder! i have more wood from drawers i didn't build for a unit so the cats could have little cubby holes so a new sign is no problem..... but wtf?!?!?!?!? why would anyone steal that sign?

Cussypat1974

i appreciate that 30 cats sounds like madness, but that includes kittens and wild cats recovering from spay/neuter operations who happen to be recovering in my house in large cages! Not anything that would impact on neighbours in any way.

Graces7

Cussypat1974 wrote: »

Nope, I never had 40 but had about 30 at one stage! have about 20 now, about 12 go outside. but the cats are not the problem, there are so many strays and ferals breeding around here. what I do is trap and neuter them to stop them breeding. and i feed whoever comes looking for food lol.
someone stole my sign! I am not kidding! this is getting weirder! i have more wood from drawers i didn't build for a unit so the cats could have little cubby holes so a new sign is no problem..... but wtf?!?!?!?!? why would anyone steal that sign?

I was not criticising! Far from it as we rescue cats and dogs and it is wonderful and nnedful work in Ireland.

You have committed a grave offence in the eyes of those people! Been an individual, been eccentric. Scares them! We are the same but we live where there are no neighbours. So we have no need to conform to their ideas...

Can you nail the sign to the house etc?

The trouble is that when adults criticise, the kids hear and think it gives them permission to vandalise. A sign is an easy target

We have a vandal down the road, only this one is over 80! Our mail gets thrown into an old wooden drawer inside the padlocked gate as he smashed two mail boxes.. among other nasty and more dangerous deeds.

Report the theft to the Gardai too.