Beware of dog sign pointless?

blaaah

Hi guys,

I just recently had a chat with 2 friends about my 'beware of dogs' sign which is up above the garage doors (3 dogs have freedom of the garage and backyard which intersect), they were telling me that the sign (which other ppl advised me to put up) is not going to protect you from any liabilty ie. burgular gets over the garage wall and tries to get into your house, but is bit on the ass lets say by one of my dogs to stop him from entering, then this burgular can indeed sue me regardless of the sign and my dog would also be put down.

Can anyone shed some light on this topic? tbh i'm rather confused becuase of ppl advising me differently.

Thanks.

Coriolanus

You need actual legal advice on the issue. Talk to the ispca, they may have a solicitor on the books that would be familiar with the statutes in the area

are you serious

My view and advice would be take it down.

The reason behind a beware of dog sign is you telling people if you come in my dog will probably bite you..!! But....... now your thinking sure that is the whole reason to have the sign up...

By having the sign there you are also acknowledging that you know your dog has a tendency to bite.

Here's your scenario.. Burglar jumps your back wall, gets bit and then sues you, why?

"Judge my client was simply going over the wall into the back garden to get his football that he accidentally kicked over the wall, there was no answer at the door when he knocked to try get the resident to retrieve it"

blaaah

are you serious wrote: »

My view and advice would be take it down.

The reason behind a beware of dog sign is you telling people if you come in my dog will probably bite you..!! But....... now your thinking sure that is the whole reason to have the sign up...

By having the sign there you are also acknowledging that you know your dog has a tendency to bite.

Here's your scenario.. Burglar jumps your back wall, gets bit and then sues you, why?

"Judge my client was simply going over the wall into the back garden to get his football that he accidentally kicked over the wall, there was no answer at the door when he knocked to try get the resident to retrieve it"

Exactly the points my two friends were making. Basically, I'm admitting fault already and the sign proves that.

Maybe ringing Ispca is best option

christmas2012

leave it up they might think again at seeing it

are you serious

I dont want to knock the other post but the ispca are not the people to contact.

Why not ask for more advice in the legal section here? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633

paultf

There was a thread a while ago about a guy delivering leaflets. The guy put his hand thru the letter box and got his hand bitten by a dog. Went to court, delivery guy lost. Judge said something along the line of entering someone else's property.

Would that not apply to someone illegally entering your property? So maybe not having a sign up in that case would be better as they couldn't use it as an excuse.

I was thinking of putting up some signs too. Wasn't sure. But I am also worried about the sceanrio whereby a kid passes and sticks his hand thru the gate and gets bitten. Wouldn't I need a sign in this case to show I warned the person in advance?

Someone previously said a sign like "Be Aware of Dogs", rather than "Beware of Dogs". The former covers your scenario, I think.

There have been threads on this before.

kylith

paultf wrote: »

Someone previously said a sign like "Be Aware of Dogs", rather than "Beware of Dogs". The former covers your scenario, I think.

There have been threads on this before.

I seem to recall that Be Aware of Dogs or Dogs Running Free signs are better because anything saying Beware of Dog can be taken as an admission that you know your dog is a danger.

Coriolanus

are you serious wrote: »

I dont want to knock the other post but the ispca are not the people to contact.

Why not ask for more advice in the legal section here? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633

Because you're not allowed ask for legal advice on boards. Maybe read the charter of the forum you're sending himto?

crazygeryy

Don't anything about thee legal side of it but the postman will love you for it.

are you serious

Coriolanus wrote: »

Because you're not allowed ask for legal advice on boards. Maybe read the charter of the forum you're sending himto?

Maybe you should read my message properly so.

I didnt tell blaah, to ask for legal advice :rolleyes:

Coriolanus

are you serious wrote: »

Coriolanus wrote: »

Because you're not allowed ask for legal advice on boards. Maybe read the charter of the forum you're sending himto?

Maybe you should read my message properly so.

I didnt tell blaah, to ask for legal advice :rolleyes:

They'll tell him to do what I said ie; contact a solicitor. :rolleyes:

ISDW

As has been said, put up signs that just warn of dogs running free, not anything that implies the dogs may be a danger.

blaaah

Where could I get such signs? I've been to my local and to Carlow and found no other signs than the blatent beware of dog.

paultf

blaaah wrote: »

Where could I get such signs? I've been to my local and to Carlow and found no other signs than the blatent beware of dog.

Better be quick - 1 left!

(There has to be somone on ebay that can make a custom sign for you.)

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/NEW-Brass-Sign-Plate-Be-Aware-Dog-Plaque-Warn-Others-Your-Dog-/280853691296?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Decorative_Accents_LE&hash=item41642f3ba0

EDIT: here are some custom makers http://www.ebay.ie/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=custom+signs

DamagedTrax

the law was changed recently. you are no longer liable for injuries caused by dogs to anyone trespassing on your property with criminal intent (ocviously that doesnt cover leaflet delivery guys or the likes).

case in point, the pitbull that mauled the guy in finglas that robbed a securicor van a few weeks back. the only thing the coppers said was that 'he wont be doing that again in a hurry'

ISDW

DamagedTrax wrote: »

the law was changed recently. you are no longer liable for injuries caused by dogs to anyone trespassing on your property with criminal intent (ocviously that doesnt cover leaflet delivery guys or the likes).

case in point, the pitbull that mauled the guy in finglas a few weeks back. the only thing the coppers said was that 'he wont be doing that again in a hurry'

Good to know, thanks.

I still think you're safer with signs that don't intimate that your dogs may be dangerous. If a dog escaped and there was any kind of incident, the fact that there are signs up on your property warning people about your dogs could be used against you.

I have found the signs in most pet shops. I have "dogs running free" stickers on my gates.

Cherry Blossom

The reason you can't buy a high viz vest anymore that says 'caution, young horse' on the back is exactly for the same reason, because in effect it's an admission that your animal may have the potential to be a danger to your self or some one else. 'Be aware of the dog' has been construed by the UK courts as having the intended meaning of 'Beware of the dog' which again is actually taken as an admission of liability. In Irish law it is illegal to have guard dogs with free run of your property http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/si/0329.html. I would avoid any signage that would imply anything other than that your dogs are family pets. Stick up a sign with the picture of the breed with the words, dogs running free, please keep gates closed or something to that effect if you really want to put a sign up.

foxer3640

I have a sign on my front door that says "my german shepherd lives here". It will let any would be intuder know that that the dog is there without implying that they will get bitten. I also have the "beware guard dogs" signs up at a storage yard but ive always wondered about liability should someone get bitten.

time lord

S.I. No. 255/1988 — Control of Dogs Act, 1986 (Guard Dogs) Regulations, 1988.

"Guard Dog Beware" signs are mandatory for dogs which are being used for
a. to protect premises or b.to protect goods or property or c. to protect a person guarding premises or such goods or property.
The signs have a mandatory size and text/graphics. Their positioning is also leglislated for.

A persons dwelling is exempt and so are farms.

Assassins Creed

If mandatory signs are in place, what happens in the situation whereby a burglar is bitten by a dog protecting a premises.

Cherry Blossom

Assassins Creed wrote: »

If mandatory signs are in place, what happens in the situation whereby a burglar is bitten by a dog protecting a premises.

It's also mandatory that guard dogs are secured in their own pen at all times when they aren't accompanied and under control. It would be a pretty stupid burglar that would enter a guard dog's pen unless it's the dog they are intending to steal.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1988/en/si/0255.html

If the dog is able to bite someone, then it isn't under control.

Assassins Creed

Thank you adrenalinjunkie, your quick off the mark. That was gonna be my next point.

hiram

paultf wrote: »

blaaah wrote: »

Where could I get such signs? I've been to my local and to Carlow and found no other signs than the blatent beware of dog.

Better be quick - 1 left!

(There has to be somone on ebay that can make a custom sign for you.)

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/NEW-Brass-Sign-Plate-Be-Aware-Dog-Plaque-Warn-Others-Your-Dog-/280853691296?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Decorative_Accents_LE&hash=item41642f3ba0

EDIT: here are some custom makers http://www.ebay.ie/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=custom+signs[/Quote I

I have "warning, bees"
around my place..works a treat. I'm a bee keeper, but is like to see you prove they were my bees that stung you.

Assassins Creed

The shepherd that bit the burglar was a stray i took in, your honour. He has since escaped. No my shepherd is a pet, i'd have a warning sign up if he was prone to biting.

Graces7

The sign we used to have up read.. "Beware of the Dog. Enter at your own risk."

jolatacqce

:DSaw a sign recently,'Don't worry about dogs','Watch Out for Low Flying Lead'.

Chinasea

I have a problem with these signs.

The reason being (and I am not inferring the OP in this) is that way too often people get large dogs and plonk them in their back gardens, apartments etc., and the poor dogs are only seen as a security deterrent to potential burglaries, no more, no less and never get outside the gates.

Dogs are not burglar alarms.

TooManyDogs

They're not always used as warnings of 'burglar alarms' though, I have a Dogs Running Free sign on my gate as a direct result of a guy hearing the lawnmower so came in the side gate, getting half way up the garden and suddenly being surrounded by 6 dogs barking about the stranger suddenly appearing in their garden. Needless to say he needed new underpants after that! I thought it was only fair to warn people after that, I live in a country area and if people are looking for us and see us in the garden they'll often just come in, at least if they know we have dogs they're making an informed choice.

I have heard of people looking for these signs and taking the dogs for fighting and whatnot.

Shenshen

blaaah wrote: »

Hi guys,

I just recently had a chat with 2 friends about my 'beware of dogs' sign which is up above the garage doors (3 dogs have freedom of the garage and backyard which intersect), they were telling me that the sign (which other ppl advised me to put up) is not going to protect you from any liabilty ie. burgular gets over the garage wall and tries to get into your house, but is bit on the ass lets say by one of my dogs to stop him from entering, then this burgular can indeed sue me regardless of the sign and my dog would also be put down.

Can anyone shed some light on this topic? tbh i'm rather confused becuase of ppl advising me differently.

Thanks.

I remember a case years and years ago in Germany, where the courts decided that "Beware of the dog" wasn't sufficient to clear the owner of responsibility.
The sign that should be put up was "Beware of dog - Enter at own risk".