Munster 2011/2012 YOUR year in review

justsomebloke

So the end of the Provincial season is nearly opoun us so it is time to look back at how Munster did this season.

So how would you review Munster's season this year, what were you highlights and what your lowlights. Who do you think preformed well and who do you think could have done better. Looking forward to next season what would you like to see happen in the off season.

*MOD warning from the start. This isn't a bashing thread any unnesseary bashing of players, management, other poster views or dragging intero pro nonsense will result in infraction and bans. THIS IS YOUR WARNING.

Try and keep the chat to a minimum and any posts that seem to be derailing the thread will be removed.

phog

I sent this email to a few Munster fans that I know as a kind of end of year review.

Munster used 48 players in the League, 20 of them scored tries, we've used 33 players in the Cup, 10 have scored tries. In total 24 players have scored 57 tries this season (excl. 4 penalty tries).

We used 41 players in the B&I cup, 13 of which are in the academy, we went on to win the final.

Average age of the H/C players is 28.5.
Average age for the RaboPro12 League is 27.4.

We've used 13 players that are under 24yrs of age.

We've scored 687 points, highest points in a game 51 (away to Saints). We've conceded 552 in total with 45 for Ospreys being highest score against us in a game.
We've scored 61 tries (Zebo scored 12) and conceded 42.

We've received 16 yellow cards, our opponents while playing against us received 17 and one red card.

Home Games - Won 12, Lost 6 Away games, Won 8, lost 3 and drew one.

Use of the squad over the season, we've used:
- 23 players in 14 games
- 22 players in 6 games
- 21 players in 3 games
- 20 players in 5 games
- 19 players in 2 games

Only one player has played 100% of all out H/cup games this season - POC.

Overall, it was a disappointing season even allowing for injuries and retirements as we failed to beat Ulster in TP and were hockeyed by Ospreys in the S/final of the Rabo.

Annabella1

End of an era....it was great fun though travelling to far flung matches in Europe.
We will rebuild over the next few years.It remains to be seen how many of our young players will kick on
Penney has a difficult job with limited finances and hugh fan expectation
None of our new signings to date have excited me
OH will become a problem position methinks

The Changing of the Guard

Faith in them next season will reap rewards imo.

durkadurka

I'm thinking Munster have now taken most of the pain thats coming. The injuries and ageing players were a ticking time bomb. But its now gone off for the most part.

So the only way is up from here. THere are still a few players to retire in the next year or two - ROG and POC and Howlett being the major threats.

Others such as Stringer, Horan and DOC are no longer starters so not a real long term problem.

Munster will never have such bad luck with injuries again, so although it was a year to forget there was at least a home QF achieved. I would suggest that QF in the HEC should be a reasonable target for the next couple of years.

GymJim

I guess it really was one step forward and 2 steps back this year. Certainly, through injuries/retirements/circumstances, the enforced end of an era which maybe should have ended at least a year earlier.

Positives:
1. Establishment of Donncha Ryan & POM as first-choice
2. Emergence and game time for likes of Zebo, Sherry, TOD, DOC2, Kilcoyne (albeit somewhat enforced and in latter few games of season for most).
3. Lock-down of scrum - so long an achilles heel for us it seems BJ has really solved the problem here

Negatives:
1. Serious drop in form/quality from DOC, Johne Murphy, Jones, Barnes, Varley, Coughlan, Keatley
2. Lack of IQ props - under 4+1 rules, serious issue having so little viable IQ options in front-row. Hopefully Kilcoyne and John Ryan can really push on this year but having the dead horse that is Horan and the awful Archer on the bench is a serious worry.
3. Injury rate - no way can this be just a coincidence when likes of Dougie, Jones, Hurley and Ronan are added to retirements. New head of conditioning on way needs to make some serious changes.
4. Lack of gametime for guys like Nagle, Butler, J.Ryan
5. Backrow - biggest problem as I see it. Serious injection of experience and power required here with loss of Wally and Leamy which in my eyes requires an established SH international as Leinster did with Rocky. Need a guy who's at his peak now but also at an age where he'll aid the development of the likes of TOD, DOC2 and Butler - interesting to see development of Liam Gill of the Reds this year alongside Higginbotham and Samo. We cannot depend on Coughlan and Ronan for this!

In short, a hell of a lot more negatives than positives looking back.

Looking forward:
1. Penney is a great appointment based on his track record though I hope he can get his brand across to more established players as it was obviously easier with the likes of Canterbury and Baby Blacks. Definitely the right guy to develop the likes of TOD, DOC2, Butler, Nagle, etc.
2. Shrewd signings thus far and hopefully Laulala/Downey will solve some of our midfield problems of recent times. Dougall is a nice bit of business also.
3. Return of Dougie - Zebo, O'Dea and Jones can learn so much from playing/training with him (especially defensively for Zebo) as need to add some more substance and brain to their very exciting potential
4. Fully fit POC - missing tour of NZ I hope as need him to be at full tilt from start next year with inexperience around him. Need every ounce of his leadership next year
5. Injuries/retirements should force the necessary long-term view - need to re-focus on building a squad to win the HEC beyond short-term as Leinster did. Our focus on winning the RABO is silly and should be used as a proper development ground. As examples, the use of guys like Coughlan and Murphy (who we know are not good enough at the business end of the HEC) over Butler and Zebo serves no long-term benefit where these games can be used to integrate them into the team when it has guys like POC/Botha/Dougie/ROG in it. This is what Leinster did and now they're consistently challenging to win both the HEC and RABO in the same year.

Exciting times ahead no doubt!

ormond lad

GymJim has covered virtually everything but here goes

Positives
1. The use of so many young players
2. Our discipline record has improved
3. solid scrum
4. Winning the British and Irish Cup

Negatives
1. The amount of long term injurys and forced retirements
2. Lack of gametime for likes of Nagle, Butler

Next Season
1. Players like Nagle, Dave Foley, Butler get regular gametime throughout the season
2. Keatley getting more gametime, given more responsibility in the big games
3. JJ Hanrahan plays more games with the Pro12 team than the British and Irish cup team

profitius

durkadurka wrote: »

I'm thinking Munster have now taken most of the pain thats coming. The injuries and ageing players were a ticking time bomb. But its now gone off for the most part.

+1

Short term pain for long term gain. The season was horrible but its given those running Munster rugby the kick up the ass they needed. They wanted to keep McGahan on for 2 more seasons!

Rob Penney's timing is perfect. He has a team full of young players with no baggage. The expectation level of the fans are the lowest for a long time. He has a few new signings coming in to strengthen the center. He'll have a new attack coach coming who will surely be a drastic improvement on Dutchy Holland. The players confidence hit an all time low at the end of the season. They'll be looking forward to the new coach and the new ideas which he'll bring to the squad.


For next season I'd like to see:
The team playing a better brand of rugby and smart rugby.
Innovative game play.
Better discipline.
More players coming through and getting more games, like JJ Hanrahan.
More game time for some of the fringe props like John Ryan.
A big improvement on the injury front.
Some of the older pros being dropped more often.

Hopefully Penney will have a different attitude to giving young players games. It'll take him at least a few months to get to know the players in the squad. We might see alot of rotating and experimenting.

Fishooks12

Has Penney taken the reigns yet?

irishbucsfan

durkadurka wrote: »

I'm thinking Munster have now taken most of the pain thats coming.

Maybe not though. The front row could be a major problem if Archer and Kilcoyne don't improve considerably as scrummagers. The NIQs are holding them together in that front row. At least they have great young options at hooker.

profitius

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Has Penney taken the reigns yet?

Hes in charge of NZ U20's at the junior world cup. He'll come to Munster when thats finished.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Maybe not though. The front row could be a major problem if Archer and Kilcoyne don't improve considerably as scrummagers. The NIQs are holding them together in that front row. At least they have great young options at hooker.

Cotter and John Ryan are highly rated and both can play both sides of the scrum. Ryan already looks better than Archer. They're all young and inexperienced for props so it'll take a season or two to get them up to speed.

Fishooks12

profitius wrote: »

Hes in charge of NZ U20's at the junior world cup. He'll come to Munster when thats finished.

oh ya forgot!

Benny Cake

I actually believe next seasons Heineken Cup first 15 will be better than this year... Its in the RPD12 we could see a drop-off in performance.... With Penny at the reigns, I am cautiously optimistic about 2013.