Tenants rights

ladyjuicy08

My sister and her boyfriend moved into a rented house last month.this was done thru letting agent they paid deposit and 1months rent upfront.they have signed a years lease.my sister is 7months pregnant.an hour ago the house owner rang them and said he wanted to move back in ASAP .ive told her to contact threshold,citizens advice n letting agent in the morning.but does anyone know is this legal can he do this .

goat2

as far as i know, he must give a minimum of one months notice, since thay have signed a years contract, did owner give a reason as to why he needed to move in, i suppose he will be using it as his primary home.

ladyjuicy08

He said were he is living fell thru

Unless there is a break clause in the lease the owner cannot break the lease. They cannot simply move back in. Your sister will not have to move out.

goat2

i have broken leases, but giving one month notice for valid reasons,
also it is not your fault that things went wrong for him,
i am wondering that since it is the owner, that wants to move in to the place, is there a different law

No. There is no different law. A fixed term lease cannot be broken by the landlord unless there is a clause in the lease allowing it.

odds_on

Deleted User wrote: »

No. There is no different law. A fixed term lease cannot be broken by the landlord unless there is a clause in the lease allowing it.

Exactly, and there are very few leases that actually have a break clause.

If the landlord/owner thought that he might want to move back in, he should have included a break clause or had a Part 4 lease in which case he could.

Forcing a tenant out could be very costly in fines. However, the landlord could buy out the lease by offering a cash incentive like a couple of grand but your sister is not obliged to accept a buy out unless it is on her terms.

ladyjuicy08

Yeah I thought once u had a lease it could only be broken for anti social/non rent payment or if tenent moves out they forfeit deposit.but I check threshold.ie seems to imply that the landlord can break lease within the 1 st 6months of it.she gonna ring threshold etc in morn bt tbh she so pissed at landlord she does want to stay there.she reckons he could make life difficult for them eg:any maintenance issues

odds_on

ladyjuicy08 wrote: »

Yeah I thought once u had a lease it could only be broken for anti social/non rent payment or if tenent moves out they forfeit deposit.but I check threshold.ie seems to imply that the landlord can break lease within the 1 st 6months of it.she gonna ring threshold etc in morn bt tbh she so pissed at landlord she does want to stay there.she reckons he could make life difficult for them eg:any maintenance issues

One of the problems with the Threshold website is that they have tried to condense a lot into a little and thus have confusing statements.

Very Briefly:
A Fixed Term lease cannot be broken at any time unless there is a break clause, arrears of rent, the tenant or landlord is in breach of their obligations or by mutual agreement.

A Part 4 lease may be terminated by the landlord during the first six months without stating a reason. Under a Part 4 lease, a tenant may leave at any time, without reason, by giving the appropriate notice.

ladyjuicy08

She called threshold on Friday and they said because she has a years lease she can't be made move out.they rang the letting agent who brushed this off and offered another place (smaller). She said no she's happy we're she is since then letting agent n landlord not taking her calls.today she got a letter from landlord saying he wants them out by 23rd of June thy paid thierry rent yesterday as it was due.so he's basically giving a months notice.

Graces7

ladyjuicy08 wrote: »

She called threshold on Friday and they said because she has a years lease she can't be made move out.they rang the letting agent who brushed this off and offered another place (smaller). She said no she's happy we're she is since then letting agent n landlord not taking her calls.today she got a letter from landlord saying he wants them out by 23rd of June thy paid thierry rent yesterday as it was due.so he's basically giving a months notice.

Fixed term so he cannot do this.

ladyjuicy08

Nobody taking her phone calls so she not sure were to go from here.she getting so stressed over it which is not good for the baby

ladyjuicy08

ladyjuicy08 wrote: »

Nobody taking her phone calls so she not sure were to go from here.she getting so stressed over it which is not good for the baby

Does she have an address for the landlord? Was the letter they sent registered?

ladyjuicy08

Deleted User wrote: »

Does she have an address for the landlord? Was the letter they sent registered?

I'm not sure I told her to call threshold again in the morning.

paul71

Go to the local Garda station and tell them that a landlord and letting agent are attempting to illegally evict a lady who is seven months pregnant. Send a registered letter to the letting agent and the Landlord informing them that the Garda have been notified of their actions and that you intend to fulfill your legal obligations under the lease and expect them to do same.

ladyjuicy08

paul71 wrote: »

Go to the local Garda station and tell them that a landlord and letting agent are attempting to illegally evict a lady who is seven months pregnant. Send a registered letter to the letting agent and the Landlord informing them that the Garda have been notified of their actions and that you intend to fulfill your legal obligations under the lease and expect them to do same.

Thanks I'll pass this onto her

Merch

Graces7 wrote: »

Fixed term so he cannot do this.

I didnt see exactly where it has been said that the lease is fixed term? anywhere in the thread.
It says a years lease, but is it a years fixed term or a years lease part 4?
For the OP, this needs to be clarified, not for the thread (but it would be helpful),
If it is fixed term lease, it cannot be broken unless there is a break clause,
if it is a part 4 lease, then within the first 6 months then the landlord can (if they give the appropriate notice) have the tenancy terminated and the tenant move out without reason, after that their must be a reason,acceptable reasons according to the laws regarding part 4 leases.

If it says its a fixed term lease then it is so, if not then it is a part 4 lease, can you confirm which.
If its the later the landlord wouldn't even have to say their own accomodation didnt work out, they just have to formally present notice to quit in the specified ways.

Im not siding for or against either party, but the information provided needs to be accurate to get an an effective reply.
i.e. a lot of people dont really look at or make themselves aware of what they are signing, in other words once a person has signed the lease (contract) their position to negotiate later may be reduced.
So if they really needed and wanted to have the place secured and guaranteed due to a baby (very understandable) then a fixed term lease is what they needed, if they have that, they are in luck, they can either stay or negotiate their exit.
If they need flexibility and may need to leave and had a fixed term lease, they would be in a bit of bother.
Fixed term and part 4 leases have their pros and cons for both parties, it depends on each party to the lease (contract) requirements.

ladyjuicy08

Merch wrote: »

I didnt see exactly where it has been said that the lease is fixed term? anywhere in the thread.
It says a years lease, but is it a years fixed term or a years lease part 4?
For the OP, this needs to be clarified, not for the thread (but it would be helpful),
If it is fixed term lease, it cannot be broken unless there is a break clause,
if it is a part 4 lease, then within the first 6 months then the landlord can (if they give the appropriate notice) have the tenancy terminated and the tenant move out without reason, after that their must be a reason,acceptable reasons according to the laws regarding part 4 leases.

If it says its a fixed term lease then it is so, if not then it is a part 4 lease, can you confirm which.
If its the later the landlord wouldn't even have to say their own accomodation didnt work out, they just have to formally present notice to quit in the specified ways.

Im not siding for or against either party, but the information provided needs to be accurate to get an an effective reply.

Sorry it's fixed term

odds_on

Illegal eviction is an extremely serious matter and if the landlord tries to do this your sister can claim damages which could easily amount into the thousands of euros. She should keep a note of all communications with the landlord and the agency and any communication should be in writing (and she should keep a copy).

As I said in my post #7, the landlord could offer to buy out the lease. IMHO, this could be worth at least 2,000 euro + the return of her full deposit, if your sister was agreeable to move. Your sister could put this to the landlord but she should make sure that it is well worth the trouble and expense of moving.

PRTB Adjudications for illegal evictions, claims by tenant:

DR114/2009
Respondent Landlord shall pay € 11,300 to the Applicant Tenant within fourteen days from the date of issue of this Order being damages in the sum of € 10,000 for the illegal eviction which occurred on the 5th of February 2009

DR1573/2008
The Respondent Landlord shall pay €5,190 to the Applicant Tenant within seven days from the date of issue of this Order, being
€1,500 for a breach of the Respondent Landlords obligations for unlawfully entering into the tenancy of the dwelling at ........ on 7 December 2008;
€3,000 for illegally and unlawfully evicting the Applicant Tenant from the above premises;
€450 retained security deposit and
€240 for damage caused to Applicant Tenants belongings, in respect of the tenancy of the above dwelling.

PRTB Tribunal determination for illegal evictions, claims by landlord (who lost the claim):

TR 02/DR831/2
a. The Appellant Landlords shall pay the sum of €2,000 to the Respondent Tenant by way of damages for unlawful termination of his tenancy
b. The Appellant Landlords shall pay the sum of €1,800 to the Respondent Tenant by way of damages for domestic necessities consequent on having to vacate the dwelling following the illegal eviction;
c. The Appellant Landlords shall refund the sum of €700 to the Respondent Tenant, being the security deposit of €1,200 less the sum of €500 for the cost of refilling the oil tank as agreed in the tenancy agreement between the parties;
d. The Appellant Landlords shall further refund the sum of €601 to the Respondent Tenant for the cost he incurred in carrying out repairs to the front door of the dwelling;
e. The sum of €5,101 referred to above shall be payable by the Appellant Landlord to the Respondent Tenant within 21 days from the date of issue by him of this determination;

Bigcheeze

ladyjuicy08 wrote: »

she getting so stressed over it which is not good for the baby

So why isn't her partner dealing with the landlord to take the pressure off her ?

Jesus Shaves

Bigcheeze wrote: »

So why isn't her partner dealing with the landlord to take the pressure off her ?

Are you for real? How would that make it any less stressful having received an eviction letter?

Bigcheeze

darokane wrote: »

Are you for real? How would that make it any less stressful having received an eviction letter?

Because fighting with the landlord would add to the stress. Pretty obvious really. :rolleyes:

Jesus Shaves

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Because fighting with the landlord would add to the stress. Pretty obvious really. :rolleyes:

And you think she can be completely oblivious to the whole thing? /They are a couple, they fight it together, how is she not supposed to be stressed having received an eviction letter? bit of an idiotic post TBF

Baralis1

I agree with what has been said previously, i.e. it is a fixed term lease and the landlord cannot break it before the lease is up. I would keep a copy of all communication as mentioned and from now until this issue is resolved, I would communicate by email and letter rather than phonecall as these are more traceable and can be kept if necessary for the future.

It's time landlords learned that they can't just treat tenents like temporary cash cows who they let live in their houses. We need to move towards a system where people can rent long term without fear of being asked to leave on the whim of a landlord with longer, cast iron leases. Tenants should be able to lease a house long term and treat it like it truly is their home.

The_Conductor

Lets keep things constructive here please guys.
No sniping at one another.

ladyjuicy08

Bigcheeze wrote: »

So why isn't her partner dealing with the landlord to take the pressure off her ?

Sorry they are both trying to communicate with landlord etc just her BF works all day so it easier for her for her to contact threshold etc she emailed threshold copy of her lease today so is waitin to hear back.the landlord didn't even send a return address so they no idea were he is :mad::mad:Letting agent is no better hopefully threshold will be able to advise now they have copy of lease

Borderfox

From what I hear we are already there, fixed term or part 4 the tenant is protected in law and by the prt.

I would agree about longer term leases but a slight move back to the housing board would be nice eg actually coming out to look at a house thats registered rather than just taking the money like the prtb

Baralis1 wrote: »

I agree with what has been said previously, i.e. it is a fixed term lease and the landlord cannot break it before the lease is up. I would keep a copy of all communication as mentioned and from now until this issue is resolved, I would communicate by email and letter rather than phonecall as these are more traceable and can be kept if necessary for the future.

It's time landlords learned that they can't just treat tenents like temporary cash cows who they let live in their houses. We need to move towards a system where people can rent long term without fear of being asked to leave on the whim of a landlord with longer, cast iron leases. Tenants should be able to lease a house long term and treat it like it truly is their home.

Milk & Honey

Baralis1 wrote: »

I agree with what has been said previously, i.e. it is a fixed term lease and the landlord cannot break it before the lease is up. I would keep a copy of all communication as mentioned and from now until this issue is resolved, I would communicate by email and letter rather than phonecall as these are more traceable and can be kept if necessary for the future.

It's time landlords learned that they can't just treat tenents like temporary cash cows who they let live in their houses. We need to move towards a system where people can rent long term without fear of being asked to leave on the whim of a landlord with longer, cast iron leases. Tenants should be able to lease a house long term and treat it like it truly is their home.

What about tenants learning that they can't sign legally binding documents and then ignore the consequences?

Jesus Shaves

Milk & Honey wrote: »

What about tenants learning that they can't sign legally binding documents and then ignore the consequences?

I was under the impression that this thread was about a different subject completely unlike your post, forgive my insolence if i'm wrong.

ladyjuicy08

Threshold has called landlord an informed him that by law he can't evict them.he claims he was unaware that he cudnt just move back in wheneva he felt like it :eek: imagine So hopefully that's it and he won't make things difficult ie:something breaks in house

ladyjuicy08

Landlord called her BF said he doesn't care what threshold say he's moving back in no matter what Sister terrified he move back in when der not der she rang Garda for advice said nothing they can do unless he get violent as its his house he can enter when he like which we all know he can't he must give advance warning

the_syco

ladyjuicy08 wrote: »

Landlord called her BF said he doesn't care what threshold say he's moving back in no matter

Ask is he going to illegally evict them. Tell the landlord to contact his solicitor, to find out what illegal eviction means to his bank balance.

Oh, and fun fact of the day; while you pay rent, it's your house. If he comes into your house without permission, he's trespassing.

Jesus Shaves

Go into the guards and get someone that knows what they're talking about, it'll be easier to explain face to face

ladyjuicy08

the_syco wrote: »

Ask is he going to illegally evict them. Tell the landlord to contact his solicitor, to find out what illegal eviction means to his bank balance.

Oh, and fun fact of the day; while you pay rent, it's your house. If he comes into your house without permission, he's trespassing.

He's doing my nut in so cn imagine what my sis n BF are like.he just doesn't seem to give a s*** .she due her baby in 2 months so just wants to relax so she cn start getting stuff ready doesn't know we're she be living :mad:

Coriolanus

ladyjuicy08 wrote: »

Landlord called her BF said he doesn't care what threshold say he's moving back in no matter what Sister terrified he move back in when der not der she rang Garda for advice said nothing they can do unless he get violent as its his house he can enter when he like which we all know he can't he must give advance warning

No he can't. If he enters without permission its trespass and the guards are obliged to remove him if asked by the occupier.

paul71

The Garda is wrong, go back to them in person, if they dont accept there is an issue ask to see the sergent, if he fails to see the issue ask to an inspector, no joy with him ask them to get a superindendant to contact you, if that does not work ask for a compliant to be filed with the Garda omsbudsman.

While a landlord seeking to enter a property without premission may be a grey area in the law (although I have always contended it is trespass), illegal eviction is a crime and the Garda have a statutory duty to investigate all crimes reported.

djimi

She has two choices as I see it:

A) Come to some agreement with the landlord whereby he buys them out of their lease. I would say full deposit, rent paid plus 2 months worth of rent would be a fair amount.

or

Allow the landlord to continue with the illegal eviction, making sure to keep full records of all goings on. Once out open a case with the PRTB, which if successful (and by the sounds of it it should be) should mean they get a nice payout from the landlord for their troubles.

Definately persist with the Gardai though; harrassment and threat of trespassing/illegal eviction should not be taken lightly. Maybe a stern visit from his local Garda will shut him up for a while.

It also might be worth writing a letter to the landlord informing him of your rights, the legal position of the lease that has been signed, and include the examples that odds_on has posted above of the consequences for a landlord of carrying out an illegal eviction.

Graces7

djimi wrote: »

She has two choices as I see it:

A) Come to some agreement with the landlord whereby he buys them out of their lease. I would say full deposit, rent paid plus 2 months worth of rent would be a fair amount.

or

Allow the landlord to continue with the illegal eviction, making sure to keep full records of all goings on. Once out open a case with the PRTB, which if successful (and by the sounds of it it should be) should mean they get a nice payout from the landlord for their troubles.

Definately persist with the Gardai though; harrassment and threat of trespassing/illegal eviction should not be taken lightly. Maybe a stern visit from his local Garda will shut him up for a while.

It also might be worth writing a letter to the landlord informing him of your rights, the legal position of the lease that has been signed, and include the examples that odds_on has posted above of the consequences for a landlord of carrying out an illegal eviction.

Amen to this... Ask Threshold can they help you take out a dispute resoltion with PTRB as that will freeze all else. If you are in their ara, Threshold will alos help at the tribunal.

And go over the local Gardai heads to the Chief Superintendant; see their website.

We have recenlt done this over a recurrence of problems with the old neighbour as the local gardai were doing nothing. We got urgent action.

To many of the gardai it seems peace at all costs!

This LL may just be blustering; if he comes near, call the Gardai.

And sit tight. Hard we know having gone through this....