PTSB AGM

Idbatterim

quotes taken from today's article in Irish independent

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/homeowners-vent-anger-at-ptsbs-moral-bankruptcy-3116958.html

Mr McNally went on to proclaim he was "committed to telling every person" he knew to pull their money out of Permanent TSB and that he would, along with thousands like him, "drop you like a hot coal if we could".

I'm so tired of paying for other people's reckless decisions," he said, drawing a cheer as he slammed the "disastrous foresight and risk management" that triggered massive losses at the bank and prompted the rise in interest rates.

Id slam his own reckless decisions and disastrous foresight and risk management!

Chairman Alan Cook said he'd invited them to air their grievances at the start of the meeting, after learning some homeowners had been buying shares in the bank "just so they could come along and protest".

Obviously not that broke if they can buy shares. Fairly amusing!

Ms O'Donohue and her husband bought their home in 2005, when they were paying interest of about 3pc.

"We're lucky because we have steady jobs so we're not in arrears," she told the Irish Independent last night. "But we're paying about €400 a month more in interest than we would with another lender.

"We have a small child and another one on the way, that money would make a big difference," she added.

Ms O'Donohue and her husband can't move their mortgage of "about €300,000" because they're in negative equity and "no other bank would have us".

why didn't they go for a fixed rate when last renewing or a tracker?

Note how if the shi*t hadnt hit the fan they would all be canny investors etc :rolleyes:

telecaster

Idbatterim wrote: »

why didn't they go for a fixed rate when last renewing or a tracker?

Note how if the shi*t hadnt hit the fan they would all be canny investors etc :rolleyes:

Haven't heard of people getting an option to renew, how does this come about?

If someone has fluked their way on to a tracker good luck to them, others had less fortune in how the market moved and were stuck with fixed rate. The PTSB mortgage holders seemingly stung more than most as the fixed rate is higher with them.

The schadenfreude is unnecessary. Some people were just trying to get on in life and buy ONE home so they could raise a family. This is a pretty basic expectation of a nation from its workforce. People are entitled to vent a little at those who were wreckless.

(I'm not a PTSB mortgage holder, nor on a fixed rate for that matter)

Nody

Sorry but anyone who thinks 3% interest on a loan is somehow normal or expect it to remain there needs a serious dose of reality adjustment.

ednwireland

Nody wrote: »

Sorry but anyone who thinks 3% interest on a loan is somehow normal or expect it to remain there needs a serious dose of reality adjustment.

we were talking last night and my partner said her first mortgae in the 80's was at 15% interest (we didnt borrow during the boom)

AlekSmart

telecaster wrote: »

The schadenfreude is unnecessary. Some people were just trying to get on in life and buy ONE home so they could raise a family. This is a pretty basic expectation of a nation from its workforce. People are entitled to vent a little at those who were wreckless.

I'm not so sure I'd agree with that declaration....

Countless millions of other folks throughout Europe and the Worrild managed,over the millenia to "get on in life" and raise numerous families without OWNING their own piece of planet earth.

I would expect many things from a Nation,even this one,but the long running drooling of official Ireland for Property ownership has ensured that virtually none of the services taken for granted by those pesky non property-owning Other Europeans can be accessed by the sons and daughters of Erin.

Fur Coats and No Knickers appears now to be our guiding mantra as the sobering arrival of the MV Reality off our coastline finally hits home.

telecaster

AlekSmart wrote: »

Countless millions of other folks throughout Europe and the Worrild managed,over the millenia to "get on in life" and raise numerous families without OWNING their own piece of planet earth.

(

The alternative presumably is to rent? Your occupancy of a property is at the whim of the landlord. Such a scenario wouldn't be give much peace of mind when trying to integrate to a community, settle kids in to a school.

Renting through 90's / early 2000s broadly involved you making monthly payments in excess of what your own mortgage on a similar property would cost. Your money went down the swanny and someone else's mortgage got paid. Renting wasn't a viable long term option in that market.

I understand tenants get a far better deal across Europe in terms of rights to remain in the building. The other folks throughout the world that didn't need to own a piece of the planet no doubt too had better rental terms.

Icepick

telecaster wrote: »

The alternative presumably is to rent? Your occupancy of a property is at the whim of the landlord.

No, it's not. It's a buyer's market and there are laws protecting renters.

waitingforBB

Idbatterim, I think your post is a little glib.
the guy you are qouting at the AGM was the focus of a segment on the consumer show some weeks ago and his details were outlined there. Not a speculator but a regular Joe who bought a house to raise his family. His point is that PTSB had a captive customer base because of the lack of availability of switcher mortgages. So while they knew there was bugger all their SVR customers could do about it, they increased their SVR to 6.19%.
Thats how the market works, but the fact is there is not a functioning market out there. If there was, folks could move to AIB with an SVR of 3% (which has the same owner as PTSB interestingly enough.
They've since been shamed into successive reductions to bring the SVR to 4.69% which is still out of whack with AIB and BOI.
One might argue that those institutions are too low..perhaps, but the point is that the government owned banks should be somewhat standardised.
PTSB has the highest volume of arrears for residentials, probably because its had the highest variable rates hence pushing people to default.

AS for the comment about being able to afford shares to attend the AGM....Most of the vocal protestors I understand were there in a proxy capacity. Even so, with the share price of PTSB, one could become a shareholder for a few quid.

Idbatterim

AS for the comment about being able to afford shares to attend the AGM....Most of the vocal protestors I understand were there in a proxy capacity. Even so, with the share price of PTSB, one could become a shareholder for a few quid.

i meant that comment tongue in cheek for the most part.

One might argue that those institutions are too low..perhaps, but the point is that the government owned banks should be somewhat standardised.

the rates being charged for SVR in BOI and AIB are unbelievably low, I assume this is due to pressure applied by government to keep them low, I do agree though that it is ridiculous that the rates gulf is so vast and it should be near standardised...

AlekSmart

telecaster wrote: »

The alternative presumably is to rent? Your occupancy of a property is at the whim of the landlord. Such a scenario wouldn't be give much peace of mind when trying to integrate to a community, settle kids in to a school.

Renting through 90's / early 2000s broadly involved you making monthly payments in excess of what your own mortgage on a similar property would cost. Your money went down the swanny and someone else's mortgage got paid. Renting wasn't a viable long term option in that market.

I understand tenants get a far better deal across Europe in terms of rights to remain in the building. The other folks throughout the world that didn't need to own a piece of the planet no doubt too had better rental terms.

Yes,the alternative option is to rent.

I'm sorry to see Telecaster immediately rushing to correlate Renting with the traditional IRISH view of Oppresive Stovepipe Hatted Landlords accompanied by the Baliffs casting out the poor Irish tenants.

This folk-image is just what the doctor (and NAMA) prescribes for us wavering folks in the current depression.

The all consuming need to get the Property Marked restarted is now funneling us all right back into the place from where we still scramble to get out of !!!

For crying out loud,vast swathes of mainstream European society integrated into communities and educated their children perfectly well from properly overseen and regulated Rented accomodation....one might even suggest they were better at it than generations of property owning Irish folks in some ways ?

The hoary old chesnut that Renting is Dead-Money typifies the Irish mentality,as it's predicated upon the reluctance to pay somebody else's mortgage....whats wrong with paying it if that person is allowing you to benefit from the property they are buying...?

Remember that all of the much resisted extra taxes we now hear endlessly about are levied directly upon the property owner,a species in Ireland which has been elevated to superhero,and tax-free status......up until the arrival of reality c.October 2008....:)

Sort out the Rental market,open it up to larger and more fundamentally sound corporate rental agencies and put in place the same checks & balances which allowed the other European countries to have cviilized and workable mass market rental systems.

Please don't try to do a base-metal into gold conversion on the old property development led buying merry-go-round...it's bpund to end in tears...again !!!!