Bought a Bullock, but now think i have a Bull? photos incl

NewBeefFarmer

Hi Lads,

was at the mart a week or so ago, and bought a few bullocks,

As usual I would be paying particular attention to the auctioneer and clerk as to if it was a Bull in the ring so I would not be bidding. now dont get me wrong, most of the time I'd recognise one.

Bought this LMX, born March 2011, weight 395 kgs. Nothing said about him being a bull.

But now I'm thinking I have a botched job. (not squeezed right)

to add more flavour to the topic, my wife saw him in action (trying) within an hr of unloading from the trailor with one of the other bullocks. and ive seen him jump a lot since.

I had other farmers around look at him, I had him in the pin (the bull/bullock ), and one man said, one is squeezed, the other not so much. Another one said, im not suprised, alot of bad jobs going round.


basically, im thinking of selling him again, cause im surrounded by heifers, I work full time. not risking and break out etc..

but, someone told me that I should ring the mart and let them know, because if i try and sell him again, i could be the liable one. . but my thinking is that, well hes neither a full bull nor a full bullock.

what can ye advise? bring him back to mart? or ring?, it would be the same mart again.

what would ringing do? sher i want rid of him.

he looks to me like a bull now the more i look at him, but I was told, dont take too much notice in that, as he could be squeezed late.

hmmmmm


Would appreciate advice. . .

pakalasa

Some nice looking bullocks there. They look like growthy types.
He could be a bull alright. Don't worry, it happens to everyone. At his age, the best option is to get him banded. That's done by adding a rubber band. Vets usually take that option. Make sure he gets a shot of the Blackleg vaccine too before he's done, to cover for tetanus.
You'll have more 'peace of mind' when he's done too, as he won't be breaking out. Can you get a neighbour or someone to handle him to make sure he is a bull first.

If you look closer, you might be able to see the marks from a burdizzo. He might have been castrated recently.

vanderbadger

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

Hi Lads,

was at the mart a week or so ago, and bought a few bullocks,

As usual I would be paying particular attention to the auctioneer and clerk as to if it was a Bull in the ring so I would not be bidding. now dont get me wrong, most of the time I'd recognise one.

Bought this LMX, born March 2011, weight 395 kgs. Nothing said about him being a bull.

But now I'm thinking I have a botched job. (not squeezed right)

to add more flavour to the topic, my wife saw him in action (trying) within an hr of unloading from the trailor with one of the other bullocks. and ive seen him jump a lot since.

I had other farmers around look at him, I had him in the pin (the bull/bullock ), and one man said, one is squeezed, the other not so much. Another one said, im not suprised, alot of bad jobs going round.


basically, im thinking of selling him again, cause im surrounded by heifers, I work full time. not risking and break out etc..

but, someone told me that I should ring the mart and let them know, because if i try and sell him again, i could be the liable one. . but my thinking is that, well hes neither a full bull nor a full bullock.

what can ye advise? bring him back to mart? or ring?, it would be the same mart again.

what would ringing do? sher i want rid of him.

he looks to me like a bull now the more i look at him, but I was told, dont take too much notice in that, as he could be squeezed late.

hmmmmm


Would appreciate advice. . .

just get the vet to castrate him for you and you are finished

NewBeefFarmer

one is deffo squeezed, there seems to be the other one there.

Charlie Charolais

Agree with vander, he's a nice one, get him squeezed & keep him

Farmer Pudsey

What weight is he if he is only around 400kg I get someone with budizzer. Do with covexin 8 about week - 10 days before hand and give him a shot of LA penencillan when he is done, feed a bit of ration for a week to 10 days. I am not a fan of banding had it done to a bull by the vet 7-8 years before I knew better, it ruined him he was injected with tribvex or covexin at the same time.

Also if only bought a week or so contact the mart if he was sold as a bullock it might be the case he aws previously squeezed by a vet and there may be a comeback on it or the seller may pick up some of the cost of the vet.

jerdee

second picture looks like theirs marks from buirdezz.probAbly only done week before sale could have been with heifers over winter .inject and get checked out first before you do anymore,as he seems he would motor with good grass.

LostCovey

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

What weight is he if he is only around 400kg I get someone with budizzer. Do with covexin 8 about week - 10 days before hand and give him a shot of LA penencillan when he is done, feed a bit of ration for a week to 10 days. I am not a fan of banding had it done to a bull by the vet 7-8 years before I knew better, it ruined him he was injected with tribvex or covexin at the same time.

Also if only bought a week or so contact the mart if he was sold as a bullock it might be the case he aws previously squeezed by a vet and there may be a comeback on it or the seller may pick up some of the cost of the vet.

Pudesy it would be totally illegal to squeeze a bull above a year old (6 months actually) so don't be trying to get the OP jailed with your mischief.

alderdeer

You have two choices really

1-you contact the mart and find out for definite if he was sold as a bull or bullock and if he was sold as a bullock you could claim the call out charge for the vet to come and castrate him which the seller would have to yourself in compensation. The mart should look after all that for you.

2- you just bite the bullet and sort it out yourself with your own vet or someone that will castrate him.

It's common enough thing to happen and i don't know about others but I would usually just pull out the burdizzo and sort him out myself as you might risk the chance the seller kicking up and refusing to pay and saying that he will give you back your money and take the bull/bullock back.
It all depends on how much you like or want the animal and how much hassle youre willing to go through really
Good luck

Charlie Charolais

LostCovey wrote: »

Pudesy it would be totally illegal to squeeze a bull above a year old (6 months actually) so don't be trying to get the OP jailed with your mischief.

only illegal without using a local anaesthetic

farmerpaddy

one is definitely a bull, but this happens to everyone!

Contact your vet or do it yourself! If you can do it yourself make sure to have a bottle of penicillin hanging around!

NewBeefFarmer

hmmm
the line ye all seem to be taking here is contact me vet, which i hadnt thought of. . .
ill think about it, is it a big job? maybe ill learn from him how to do it myself

alderdeer

[QUOTE=pakalasa;78800795 Make sure he gets a shot of the Blackleg vaccine too before he's done, to cover for tetanus. .[/QUOTE]

is it not better to avoid blackleg vaccine if not used before on farm and never had a problem with blackleg as it would only introduce the virus onto the land and have to be used forever more

greysides

alderdeer wrote: »

is it not better to avoid blackleg vaccine if not used before on farm and never had a problem with blackleg as it would only introduce the virus onto the land and have to be used forever more

Blackleg is caused by a bacteria, not a virus. There can be important implications of that difference though not here.
The vaccine is a 'dead' vaccine so you won't be introducing anything by using it.

Farmer Pudsey

alderdeer wrote: »

is it not better to avoid blackleg vaccine if not used before on farm and never had a problem with blackleg as it would only introduce the virus onto the land and have to be used forever more

If you give a tetnus/blackleg vacine make sure to give at least7-10 days befor hand and no point in giving it with pencillian as it will not work

pakalasa

alderdeer wrote: »

is it not better to avoid blackleg vaccine if not used before on farm and never had a problem with blackleg as it would only introduce the virus onto the land and have to be used forever more

Funny you should say that. We've never had a case of Blackleg in the last 40 years or so. I started vacinating this year after a few neighbours told me I was mad not to doing it. Like you said, it was in the back of my mind that I might be introducing it.

greysides wrote: »

Blackleg is caused by a bacteria, not a virus. There can be important implications of that difference though not here.
The vaccine is a 'dead' vaccine so you won't be introducing anything by using it.

That clears it up - Thanks......

alderdeer

That's funny cos we lost a bullock about 20 yrs ago and vaccinated the rest of herd at time and were told to never go without vaccinating again as we had introduced it into the herd, I suppose thinking about it sure wasn't it there already seen as we were standing there looking at our finest bullock with his legs pointing towards the heavens

Attie

NewBeefFarmer
For what it's worth I'd leave him alone he should settle down when he finds his place in the heard.
Had one of these myself 2/3 years ago he done a great thrive got a we bit cross at the last but left good money behind him.
Good luck Attie.

KatyMac

pakalasa wrote: »

Funny you should say that. We've never had a case of Blackleg in the last 40 years or so. I started vacinating this year after a few neighbours told me I was mad not to doing it. Like you said, it was in the back of my mind that I might be introducing it.

QUOTE]

Blackleg can stay in the ground for years and years. It might never cause a problem until you disturb the ground, plowing or drainage etc.

My father used to vaccinate, I've been working the farm for 25 years and have never vaccinated for blackleg and (touch wood!) haven't had a case.

redzerologhlen

We never had blackleg either till about 5 years ago and then we had it, 4 yearlings with their legs up in the space of a week, those 4 would had paid to vaccinate all our cattle for the next 100 years, cheaper do them me thinks

BeeDI

KatyMac wrote: »

pakalasa wrote: »

Funny you should say that. We've never had a case of Blackleg in the last 40 years or so. I started vacinating this year after a few neighbours told me I was mad not to doing it. Like you said, it was in the back of my mind that I might be introducing it.

QUOTE]

Blackleg can stay in the ground for years and years. It might never cause a problem until you disturb the ground, plowing or drainage etc.

My father used to vaccinate, I've been working the farm for 25 years and have never vaccinated for blackleg and (touch wood!) haven't had a case.

Definitely the most crazy idea I have heard of in years!!!!! Totally crazy. Vacination is dirt cheap, and just about 100% effective assuming done properly.
You could walk out in the field one morning, and find some, or even most or even possibly all your calves dead:eek:

NewBeefFarmer

right lads. .. so it sounds i was making too much of it. I always use the electric fence (mains), and im flashing a 5 bulb on it, so i assume this will keep him from touching the boundary hedge/barbed wire.

well, after reading ye'r posts ive decided to keep him. and when i have the vet in testing in a couple of weeks, im going to get him to check.

Think i might also ring the mart, for confirmation. . just to be sure i bought a bullock, and also to see was he recently done. . . who knows maybe the mart knows the story, or could find out. . . i think ill tell them my story and see what they have.

anything else i should think of while we are on the topic? Ill book the annual herd test in the next week or two and take it from there when the vet sees him. . . .

I took a look again tonight, and defo seems to be one testi there hanging low. . now its red, almost pinky red .. . and its hanging low, like its not tight or anything. . moving away. .

the vet will sort it out for me.

thanks for the replies lads. ..

NBF

alderdeer

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

I took a look again tonight, and defo seems to be one testi there hanging low. . now its red, almost pinky red .. . and its hanging low, like its not tight or anything. . moving away. .

NBF

That's the greatest description of a pair of balls I've ever heard. Mind ya don't get too close for comfort.
Great decision about keeping him though and hopefully won't be too troublesome

Bodacious

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

right lads. .. so it sounds i was making too much of it. I always use the electric fence (mains), and im flashing a 5 bulb on it, so i assume this will keep him from touching the boundary hedge/barbed wire.

well, after reading ye'r posts ive decided to keep him. and when i have the vet in testing in a couple of weeks, im going to get him to check.

Think i might also ring the mart, for confirmation. . just to be sure i bought a bullock, and also to see was he recently done. . . who knows maybe the mart knows the story, or could find out. . . i think ill tell them my story and see what they have.

anything else i should think of while we are on the topic? Ill book the annual herd test in the next week or two and take it from there when the vet sees him. . . .

I took a look again tonight, and defo seems to be one testi there hanging low. . now its red, almost pinky red .. . and its hanging low, like its not tight or anything. . moving away. .

the vet will sort it out for me.

thanks for the replies lads. ..

NBF

Hi NBF,

Nice calf definitely keep him

I zoomed in as best i could and reckon when standing behind him the ball to the right is cut/dying away and left is the questionable one but he could be fine too, give him two weeks to settle or get vet to handle him while testing.

greysides

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If you give a tetnus/blackleg vacine make sure to give at least7-10 days befor hand and no point in giving it with pencillian as it will not work

The vaccine is 'dead', penicillin will not affect it but you do need to give it long enough beforehand for it to have had effect. In the case of a primary course this would require 2 shots and a 2 week wait.

Muckit

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

right lads. .. so it sounds i was making too much of it. I always use the electric fence (mains), and im flashing a 5 bulb on it, so i assume this will keep him from touching the boundary hedge/barbed wire.

well, after reading ye'r posts ive decided to keep him. and when i have the vet in testing in a couple of weeks, im going to get him to check.

Think i might also ring the mart, for confirmation. . just to be sure i bought a bullock, and also to see was he recently done. . . who knows maybe the mart knows the story, or could find out. . . i think ill tell them my story and see what they have.

anything else i should think of while we are on the topic? Ill book the annual herd test in the next week or two and take it from there when the vet sees him. . . .

I took a look again tonight, and defo seems to be one testi there hanging low. . now its red, almost pinky red .. . and its hanging low, like its not tight or anything. . moving away. .

the vet will sort it out for me.

thanks for the replies lads. ..

NBF

Let us know how you get on with the phonecall to the mart. Will be interesting to hear what the seller has to say.

Thanks for posting......... and keep us posted 'Ball watch IRE'

Farmer Pudsey

greysides wrote: »

The vaccine is 'dead', penicillin will not affect it but you do need to give it long enough beforehand for it to have had effect. In the case of a primary course this would require 2 shots and a 2 week wait.

Vet reccommended not to use antibotic with vaccine as it will effect it. Also with most Vaccines ( covexin Tribovex) it is 6 weeks apart, 2 weeks for immunity to be working after initial shot.

greysides

From the Covexin datasheet:

Cattle: The vaccine course should be completed at least two weeks before maximum immunity is required.

and...

The onset of immunity is two weeks after the primary course. Although direct challenge studies have not been
performed the duration of immunity, based on serological data, is 1 year.


Penicillin kills bacteria by interfering with the ability to synthesize cell wall.
http://www.cellsalive.com/pen.htm

The vaccine contains dead bacteria and inactivated toxin so penicillin can not affect it.
You may ask your vet to clarify the situation.

The nearest I could find to a reference on the datasheet is this:

4.8 Interaction with other medicinal products and other forms of interaction
No information is available on the safety and efficacy of this vaccine when used with any other veterinary medicinal product. A decision to use this vaccine before or after any other veterinary medicinal product therefore needs to be decided on a case by case basis.

........ which seems like a 'get out of jail free' clause for the manufacturers.

and....

6.2 Incompatibilities
Do not mix with any other veterinary medicinal products.

By which I would take to mean in the same syringe, otherwise vaccinating and dosing at the same time would be a 'no-no'.

Grecco

Charlie Charolais wrote: »

Agree with vander, he's a nice one, get him squeezed & keep him

Your having a laugh surely? he looks like a Bison,
a yoke that his head is all that grew!
Don`t let him next to near any heifers you have :eek:

Charlie Charolais

He's not bad grecco, he's like a Calf that was just getting silage all winter, and still 400kg. he'll grow well with a summers grass. I'd rather him than a hot house calf stuffed with meal

pakalasa

I'd be thinking the same, not fancy but very growthy. I'd like to see him in 6 months time. These type of cattle can often be the most profitable.

axel7

IMO these are the most profitable ones. Great growth potential, looks like a rough enough winter for him. Still wouldn't like to see him mounting heifers .

Manoffeeling

How is he now?

NewBeefFarmer

jaysus, and 5 mins before looking at boards right now, i was going throu photos on the pc with the wife and we seen a few on the cattle, and these very ones..
she said, hasnt that animal changed so much. . . he was so like a bull when we bought him,

I look back and would think, squeezed late... .
quiet animal. . .

lovely, doing well.

Manoffeeling

That's great. Tis good to have the other half interested. Just starting back farming myself. Everyone is on about feed being scarce and of poor quality and that cattle will fall. Go to the mart and see what they are like. Good trade last week in roscrea.

Farmer Pudsey

They must be at or over the 600kg mark now with your low stocking rate it might be possible to keep them until next spring and finish next year or sell in march.

jerdee

Stick a pic up if you still have him