diaz hearing link live now

insanity50

diaz hearing

http://mmajunkie.com/news/28811/watch-todays-nevada-commission-meeting-live-on-mmajunkie-com-at-noon-et.mma

CageWager

I love the look on the opposing lawyers face when every time he asks Diaz a long detailed question and then Nick says "can you repeat the question please"

Mr. Manager

He seems stoned right now.

Rob01

Did I hear right that he got a 12 month ban from the date of the fight in February. Lost his bonus & 30% of his fight purse?

Really hoped 2see him fighting again before then!

Mellor

Rob01 wrote: »

Did I hear right that he got a 12 month ban from the date of the fight in February. Lost his bonus & 30% of his fight purse?

Yeah. 12 month ban. And he was fined 30% of his purse. I don't think they take bonuses I general. He didn't get FotN at 143, so any bonus he did get was undisclosed.

Plastikman_eire

And meanwhile: Chael Sonnen gets handed a licence to cheat.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Chael-Sonnen-Granted-Therapeutic-Use-Exemption-for-TRT-Prior-to-UFC-148-in-Las-Vegas-42905

Diaz should have dropped his ADHD meds and started juicing, he'd have had a much easier time.:rolleyes:

Clive

Licence to cheat? Does that apply to all athletes who receive a TUE or just Sonnen?

Plastikman_eire

Clive wrote: »

Licence to cheat? Does that apply to all athletes who receive a TUE or just Sonnen?

All athletes (Unless the athlete in question is either a pre-adolescent boy, or a middle aged man)

Clive

So nobody ever has a legitimate medical condition that requires a TUE?

Plastikman_eire

Clive wrote: »

So nobody ever has a legitimate medical condition that requires a TUE?

Sure they have. Little boys who's balls havent dropped, and old men looking to put a little spring back in their step.

Athletes in their prime? Not so much.

Now either mma is full of men who contradict medical science, ooooorrrr it's full of guys who(god knows why??:rolleyes:)are taking a sustance that gives them an advantage by allowing them train longer and harder and recovery more quickly from injury.

Shazbot

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Sure they have. Little boys who's balls havent dropped, and old men looking to put a little spring back in their step.

Athletes in their prime? Not so much.

Now either mma is full of men who contradict medical science, ooooorrrr it's full of guys who(god knows why??:rolleyes:)are taking a sustance that gives them an advantage by allowing them train longer and harder and recovery more quickly from injury.

Really? You want to start talking medical science? Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. How about atheletes who are coeliac? Or have pituitary, thyroid, or adrenal problems? There's a lot more to testosterone replacement therapy than people who may have previously used roids.

Plastikman_eire

Shazbot wrote: »

Really? You want to start talking medical science? Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. How about atheletes who are coeliac? Or have pituitary, thyroid, or adrenal problems? There's a lot more to testosterone replacement therapy than people who may have previously used roids.

Fair point. I’m not a doctor(I was just paraphrasing one).

However none of the fights in the UFC who admit to TRT, or who have been caught out with elevated test levels, have claimed to suffer from any of those issues.

Chael Sonnen, was a journey man until 2008, when coincidently he began "treatment" for test. deficiency and went on to become a two time title challenger.

Clive

I would think the vast majority of athletes who need a TUE just apply quietly and not broadcast their medical details to people on the internet. I'm not familiar with the various US commissions' requirements, but WADA affiliated bodies certainly don't just rubber stamp them.

Mellor

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Now either mma is full of men who contradict medical science, ooooorrrr it's full of guys who(god knows why??:rolleyes:)are taking a sustance that gives them an advantage by allowing them train longer and harder and recovery more quickly from injury.

What medical science do they contradict exactly?

Why can't people in their 20-30s couldn't have low test (for their age). It sounds pretty reasonable to me.
In fact, you or I could have low test and we'd never know. I certainly haven't been tested. It also sounds perfectible reasonable that elite athletes are more likely to discover an underlying condition due to pushing themselves to the limit, and regularly getting blood tests.

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

However none of the fights in the UFC who admit to TRT, or who have been caught out with elevated test levels, have claimed to suffer from any of those issues.

So what exactly do they claim?
Sonnen claims to suffer from hypogonadism.
Dan Henderson, AFAIK, hasn't disclosed why he received a TUE. Nor should he have to. It's between him and the NSAC.

They would of been required to provide medical records, and test results backing that to get approved for a TUE. It's not a case of just asking.

Plastikman_eire

Mellor wrote: »

What medical science do they contradict exactly?

Why can't people in their 20-30s couldn't have low test (for their age). It sounds pretty reasonable to me.
In fact, you or I could have low test and we'd never know. I certainly haven't been tested. It also sounds perfectible reasonable that elite athletes are more likely to discover an underlying condition due to pushing themselves to the limit, and regularly getting blood tests.


So what exactly do they claim?
Sonnen claims to suffer from hypogonadism.
Dan Henderson, AFAIK, hasn't disclosed why he received a TUE. Nor should he have to. It's between him and the NSAC.

They would of been required to provide medical records, and test results backing that to get approved for a TUE. It's not a case of just asking.

http://blogs.thescore.com/mma/2012/03/08/dr-johnny-benjamin-trt-is-a-loophole-in-the-system-and-guys-are-exploiting-it/

That is where my knowledge of the subject starts and finishes tbh, but I trust the doc knows what he's on about. Maybe he's wrong and MMA just attracts people with low test?

Clive

Why would a spine specialist have any great knowledge of doping regulation? Reading his website he's a fan of MMA and likes a bit of self promotion. TUEs are necessary for a whole host of medications and treatments. Do they need to be regulated strictly? Yes. Are some people taking advantage? Yes. Are TUEs, properly regulated a fair thing? Yes.

Plastikman_eire

Clive wrote: »

Why would a spine specialist have any great knowledge of doping regulation? Reading his website he's a fan of MMA and likes a bit of self promotion. TUEs are necessary for a whole host of medications and treatments. Do they need to be regulated strictly? Yes. Are some people taking advantage? Yes. Are TUEs, properly regulated a fair thing? Yes.

In the context of MMA, do you feel that its more likely fighters are using it as a treatment, or as a performance enhancer?

As I understand it athletic commissions allow a 6:1 test reading. Which is quite a bit above what a "normal" guy would be expected to have. Fighters are testing at 10:1 and above, surely that is excessive to normalize the levels of someone suffering from one of the valid illness's you listed?

Mellor

Plastikman_eire wrote:

As I understand it athletic commissions allow a 6:1 test reading. Which is quite a bit above what a "normal" guy would be expected to have. Fighters are testing at 10:1 and above, surely that is excessive to normalize the levels of someone suffering from one of the valid illness's you listed?

Afraid you're making the same mistake as a lot of others.
The 6:1 figure isnt a level. It's a ratio. it's nothing to do with the amount of test in the system. Basically the body produces test and epitest in roughly equal amounts, hence the 1:1 ratio being normal.

If somebody genuinely needs TRT due to not producing test. Their body is most likely not producing epitest either, so when they inject synthetic test to a normal level it messes up the ratio. Eg say my test and epitest levels were at 10% of expected. I take injections to normalise test levels, but I now have a 10:1 ratio of test to epitest, even though my test levels are now normal. So a high ratio is not excessive for somebody on TRT, it's actually completely expected.
That's why when somebody is granted a TUE they monitor total levels of test, as the ratio is now useless.

Plastikman_eire

Mellor wrote: »

Afraid you're making the same mistake as a lot of others.
The 6:1 figure isnt a level. It's a ratio. it's nothing to do with the amount of test in the system. Basically the body produces test and epitest in roughly equal amounts, hence the 1:1 ratio being normal.

If somebody genuinely needs TRT due to not producing test. Their body is most likely not producing epitest either, so when they inject synthetic test to a normal level it messes up the ratio. Eg say my test and epitest levels were at 10% of expected. I take injections to normalise test levels, but I now have a 10:1 ratio of test to epitest, even though my test levels are now normal. So a high ratio is not excessive for somebody on TRT, it's actually completely expected.
That's why when somebody is granted a TUE they monitor total levels of test, as the ratio is now useless.

I see. So wouldnt taking synthetic epitest be all that is needed to mask cheating?

Mellor

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

I see. So wouldnt taking synthetic epitest be all that is needed to mask cheating?

The epitest has no anabolic effects. But its on the WADA banned list. And you've guessed exactly why. It can be used as a making agent for synthetic test in he system.

That's another reason why I don't think T/E is reasonable means of testing. It's fast and cheap so by all means they should keep doing it.

But they need to include "random" synthetic testosterone tests, and total testosterone tests.
Example, Chael's T:E was 16:1, but his total levels were apparently within normal range. If that was part of the regular procedure for a T:E it would give a much better picture of those who need TRT, those who were abusing TRT and flat out those who are full of bull.


*(I say apparently as i'm not sure if it was his own doctor, or the NSAC doctor that tested it. But at this point the NSAC are happy that the series of blood tests he has provided indicates he has reason for TRT)

Plastikman_eire

Mellor wrote: »

The epitest has no anabolic effects. But its on the WADA banned list. And you've guessed exactly why. It can be used as a making agent for synthetic test in he system.

That's another reason why I don't think T/E is reasonable means of testing. It's fast and cheap so by all means they should keep doing it.

But they need to include "random" synthetic testosterone tests, and total testosterone tests.
Example, Chael's T:E was 16:1, but his total levels were apparently within normal range. If that was part of the regular procedure for a T:E it would give a much better picture of those who need TRT, those who were abusing TRT and flat out those who are full of bull.


*(I say apparently as i'm not sure if it was his own doctor, or the NSAC doctor that tested it. But at this point the NSAC are happy that the series of blood tests he has provided indicates he has reason for TRT)

Cheers for the info. It really puts a lot of what the mma media post about results into context.

Richy06

Listen to Joe Rogan's podcast, especially when Chael Sonnen is on there, you learn some things!