Warnings

godtabh

What is the generally accepted practice when issuing warnings.

I have to issue a verbal warning today.

How much notice do I need to give some one to call the meeting?

Should I give that person an opportunity to call a witness?

Our HR policy is very vague and our HR manager is even worse

Nody

Never hurts to have them have a witness and you can ask them at the start of the meeting but for a verbal (I'm assuming first warning) it's not that common.

You also need to think of how it is going to be recorded that it was given (i.e. I've taken as practice to write out a meeting note that I send to the person and file in HR folder to back up that the meeting happened).

tatli_lokma

Hi, I posted a similar query here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056627827
there is no legal minimum, but for fairness I would always give a minimum of 24 hours notice for a meeting.

Even for a verbal warning, I would like to give staff as much of heads up as possible. I think it is unfair that some managers say nothing while staff make mistakes and then it appears like a bolt out of the blue when they are told they are getting a warning.

My first step for any discipline issue is an informal chat.

For a verbal warning, I would still be more inclined to first off call the person for an informal chat, see if they are aware of the issue. (eventhough it is an informal chat I would first ask them to have a chat verbally and then follow it up with an email confirming - something like "Mary, I need to have a chat with you about something. I was thinking at 10 am if that suits you?" then follow up with an email confirming this - its just for your own protection).

I would try to keep the meeting brief and to the point. Firm but fair sort of approach. At that point, assess if you think it still needs to be formalised (i.e if they dispute it, or feel there are mitigating circumstances etc). At all times make sure it is clear why you are having the chat, what the issue is etc. If at the end of the informal chat, if I still felt that the situation warranted a warning, it is here that I would advise them that I plan to put a verbal warning on their record. If there are issues raised that I was unaware of, I would not rush into things, but tell them I will consider what was said and get back to them once I had considered everything. Only make that decision to issue a formal warning if you really feel it is merited. Don't rush into it, take your time if needed.

If it starts getting confrontational or escalating, or if there are some serious issues raised by the employee, or if you feel you are loosing control of the meeting, I would then say that I feel this needs further investigation and that I want to give the other person an opportunity to put their points across and it is at that point I would notify them that there will be a more 'formal' meeting. Again, keep calm and fair, and just make it clear that you are calling the 'formal' meeting in order to ascertain the situation more fully. If you hold a formal meeting, make sure to bring someone with you also - someone from HR or another manager.

If you call a formal disciplinary meeting, make sure you provide notice in writing, and at all times appear fair and open to hearing what is being said. Prior to the meeting I would provide the employee with a copy of the disciplinary and grievance procedure. Let them know who will be at the meeting also. Not fair for them to think its just you and then feel ambushed when they arrive and its you and the HR manager.

At the formal meeting I would always allow them to bring a witness, as much for your sake as theirs. It is not required, but its a good idea. The person can be a co-worker or colleague of the employee, a union rep or a solicitor, but not a family member. Even a union rep or solicitor is there purely as a witness and not to argue on behalf of the employee. So don't let the witness take control of the meeting or butt in.

If you have never done this before I would recommend that you also take someone into the formal meeting (not into the 'chat'). Write down notes before, practice it if need be. Try to imagine all the excuses/protestations/arguments the staff member might have and be prepared for it.

Make notes at all stages of the process and write up a report and get employee to sign it so that you have agreement of what was discussed.

At the end of it, if you do decide that a verbal warning is needed, put it in writing! I know this sounds stupid, as you are giving a verbal warning, but you need to make sure it is documented that you have given this warning, and let the staff member know it is on their record and how long it will remain on there for.

The main thing that goes against an employer is if they are seen to be 'unfair' and not give due process or hold a proper investigation. So once you are fair and prepared to take on what the employee has to say, this is half the battle.

That is all you can do really.
best of luck - I hate having to do anything like this.

Eoin

You are entitled to a witness at a disciplinary procedure, but the witness must be mutually agreeable to both the employer and the employee.

Disciplinary procedures at work are subject to the principles of natural justice, even if they're not documented in policies at work.

As far as I am aware, it must start with an investigation, rather than be a foregone conclusion.

Be very careful how you proceed with this. The labour court is full of cases where companies are ruled against because they didn't follow the procedures, despite the employee being in the wrong.

godtabh

Eoin wrote: »

You are entitled to a witness at a disciplinary procedure, but the witness must be mutually agreeable to both the employer and the employee.

Disciplinary procedures at work are subject to the principles of natural justice, even if they're not documented in policies at work.

As far as I am aware, it must start with an investigation, rather than be a foregone conclusion.

Be very careful how you proceed with this. The labour court is full of cases where companies are ruled against because they didn't follow the procedures, despite the employee being in the wrong.

Ok there is no problem with them bringing a witness and 24 hour notice being given. I can arrange that.

But what do you mean about investigations and natural justice?

Eoin

Some info here
http://www.lrc.ie/docs/Code_of_Practice__Grievance_and_Disciplinary_Procedures/88.htm

I think the gist of the investigation is that the disciplinary action should not be a foregone conclusion - that the employee has the chance to respond to the allegation. Following that a warning might be given. That said it could be a very short meeting if there's no argument about the offence.

tatli_lokma

Eoin wrote: »

Some info here
http://www.lrc.ie/docs/Code_of_Practice__Grievance_and_Disciplinary_Procedures/88.htm

I think the gist of the investigation is that the disciplinary action should not be a foregone conclusion - that the employee has the chance to respond to the allegation. Following that a warning might be given. That said it could be a very short meeting if there's no argument about the offence.

yeah, thats what I was getting at when I said about the initial step being an informal chat to discuss the issue with the staff member. At that point you might realise you are missing information, or that you were mistaken or based upon the response of the staff member you might feel it unneccessary to formally warn them.

You don't want to rush things and jump to formal procedures without due process. Particularly because if you are wrong, or there are mitigating factors, it looks bad for you and will cause an unneccessarily negative working relationship between you and the staff member.

uck51js9zml2yt

There is a difference with just telling someone they are doing something wrong and an official verbal warning.

They are entitled to a witness and you should have one too who makes notes of the meeting.
They should be given time to get someone to attend and advised of the nature of the meeting.

The official verbal is actually a written notification which goes on their file for a period as per your company policy.

If its just a chat make sure they know what the next step will be .i.e an official verbal and again makes notes of the meeting.

godtabh

OK I think things after going tits up.

I had a chat with the HR manager. The HR manager then called a meeting straight away and asked the other person to attend and he was informed that he was getting a verbal warning and it would be supplied to him in writing after the meeting.

I was shocked at this. I expressed my concern before and after the meeting saying we are leaving ourselves wide open to god knows what. I said it was important to follow procedure to protect me, the company and the other person.

The person in the wrong agreed that there is an issue but if he informs himself on his rights (which I have point him in the right direction) I believe that all hell will break out.

I have asked the HR manager to provide minutes of the meeting, who called it, its purpose and to note my objections to how it was called. I dont want to risk my job for some one hasnt followed the rules

Smithey88

Now i'm no expect, but from experience (mainly the experience of others i know) that when you are being 'brought in' you are told you are going to be in advance for what ever issue warrenting. You are then told (or conduct says should be told) that you can have a witness with you.

Am I wrong? Or should i quietly leave now

RangeR

godtabh wrote: »

OK I think is after going tits up.

Holy ****

fasttalkerchat

godtabh wrote: »

OK I think is after going tits up.

I had a chat with the HR manager. The HR manager then called a meeting straight away and asked the other person to attend and he was informed that he was getting a verbal warning and it would be supplied to him in writing after the meeting.

I was shocked at this. I expressed my concern before and after the meeting saying we are leaving ourselves wide open to god knows what. I said it was important to follow procedure to protect me, the company and the other person.

The person in the wrong agreed that there is an issue but if he informs himself on his rights (which I have point him in the right direction) I believe that all hell will break out.

I have asked the HR manager to provide minutes of the meeting, who called it, its purpose and to note my objections to how it was called. I dont want to risk my job for some one hasnt followed the rules

You actually dealt with it quite well. The warning given will not count if the company tries to dismiss the employee at a later date since procedure wasn't followed. Be careful with your future conduct towards this employee because they may already be keeping a record of conversations and meetings if they have got legal advice.